X2
This is more rampant then you think. Look into it. Child trafficking too

Quite a few years ago my wife got excited about a new local church & began attending services. I went with her a few times and the preacher had a charismatic personality, as well as being a gifted orator.

The congregation was made up of everyday blue collar lower to upper middle class folks who were doing okay, but by no means rich...

Decided to drive by that preachers home & lo and behold his castle was worth 5× as much as any of his flock...I never went back and he soon transferred to a very wealthy church in Texas.

I worked on quite a few VERY nice Cadillacs owned by churches/preachers whose congregations came from VERY poor neighborhoods.

Just something to think about on the pastor's money thing...most arent full time preachers. They have regular jobs outside the church.

I am with hoss on this one
The focus on the family group has some great pastors

I met Ernst Anglie a few time as well as the reverend Popov

Still got my healing hanky,,,, drank my miracle spring water with Crown…

Well I can tell you for sure I'm not in it for the money. I do not preach a prosperity gospel, I don't drive a caddy, I don't live in a house 5x more valuable than my congregation, I don't have an airplane, and I don't try to be an entertainer. I am not abusing the women or the kids. I am not building a ministry for myself, I am working on and in the Kingdom of Christ. I have never used a small church as a stepping stone. Most of my life in order to fulfill the call God gave me I have worked 2 jobs. I have had some good jobs and some lousy ones in these decades of service. When I have traveled to minister I have never asked "how much $." I have been appreciated and I have been ridiculed, loved and hated, desired and detested. Through it all I have been blessed. Not every blessing in life has a $ sign attached to it, the best ones especially don't.

What I have done is preach the whole counsel of God, without fear or favor, to the many or the few, whether accepted or rejected. I have not changed the message to suit anyone whether to condemn or cajole or coddle. It really is a simple story: Heaven or ell, no other or in-between. Get right or get left (behind) and the only way to God, Heaven, etc is through Jesus Christ, His death & resurrection, who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Someday I will stand before the Lord and my goal and driving purpose is to hear him say "Well done." I hope to take as many as I can with me.
This is my life; I can only speak for me.

A few closing thoughts:
If your preacher won't tell you the truth, regardless of whether it hurts your feelings or brings you gratification, my advice is find another preacher.
If your congregation will accept the fun & games, social events, etc but won't accept the whole gospel, maybe look for another congregation.
And finally, shepherds don't make sheep. Sheep make sheep.

We would like to see a copy of your tax return for validation sir..... lol
Jk. Your stuff sounds pretty solid to me

… pastor Phil is the best

I honestly think there is an especially hot place in he ll reserved for people like him, Jim and Tammy Baker, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen and others. They are tools of the devil. Sickening.

Just out of curiosity what kind of church do you preach at? Like, what denomination?

Assembly of God, of the old school, traditional variety.

Please tell me how Joyce Meyer has been a tool of the devil? I have met and worked with several Christians who were fed and discipled under her ministry. You stated it and now I would like your proof of how her ministry has not built the kingdom of God. See we cant serve two masters and you indicate she is serving satan.

And again, I still stand - how many of you critical folks have led, taught, discipled more men to Christ than the folks you tear down? Are you doing Christs work by tearing down those you may be opposed to or are you actively correcting them as scripture calls for? Are you without sin? Are you being the disciple God called all Christians to be?

The best con is the one where the mark never realizes they were conned.

Internet is full of people who gave many thousands to someone they met on a “dating” site.

Blackdog I believe the position you hold and are trying to make with those questions is unbiblical. If I'm understanding you right your position is that we have no authority or right to judge these spiritual leaders. If that is your position I'd be ok with a friend debate that stays to this point and holds strictly to the teachings of the Bible.

i have done all you have said, and my issues with Joyce Meyer are MANY. She has said many, many things that conflict with the Bible's teaching and has led many people astray. She also has a life outside of the public eye that seriously conflicts with the teachings of Jesus. She includes just enough truth to deceive people like you. She is 100% heretic.

To the Sanhedrin - Jesus was a heretic as they did not understand Him.


I have no problem with judging people. I am a relatively good fruit examiner. I will not cast stones on less than first hand experience. My own wife misunderstands my words at times. I prefer to edify and build up rather than tear down.

I have never said don't use wisdom or discernment. I don't know Joyce Meyer but have heard her teachings and they line up with Gods Word for what I have heard. I have not walked with her or gotten to know her or spent time with her outside or in her ministry.

This I know

John 5:24 ESV
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 3:36 ESV
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Matthew 24:11-13 ESV
And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

1 John 5:11-13 ESV
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 10:28 ESV
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

1 John 5:13 ESV
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 10:9 ESV
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Matthew 7:21 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Hebrews 10:26-27 ESV
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

John 3:16 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 8:31-32 ESV
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Romans 8:1 ESV
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Interesting that you added all those Bible verses, the very book that Joyce Meyer said You can't trust.

If I may ad to this. TreedaBlackdog
In the parables of the wheat and the tares, the master says do not remove the tares, that in doing so the wheat may also be pulled up. Paraphrase
He goes on to say let them grow together, then at end the of harvest they will be seperated.

X2
They need legally looked into & their corruptness put to an end.