I started carrying a pistol 8 years ago and it started a love for shooting pistol. With that love of shooting pistol it naturally lent itself to another passion, hunting. Over the years I’ve been carrying it seems the mantra touted by self defense guys used be “shoot the biggest cartridge you shoot best” and now it seems everyone says “9mm is sufficient with recent advances in ammunition.” I started carrying a compact 45acp and now carry a subcompact 9mm. I started hunting small game with my carry pistols to get better with my guns and get an idea of what these cartridges are capable of. And there is no comparison between 9mm and 45acp when it comes to taking game. Raccoon and even fox shrug off 9mm. My question is. Is that comparable in a real life gun fight?

What kind of bullets are you shooting? Bullet construction plays a big part.

Not been my experience with a nine. Ron Spomer youtube channel has a very experienced brown bear guide sharing his experience of defending himself and some clients from a large brown bear guide with a 9mm.

So far I’ve used Federal HST 147gr, Underwood extreme defender 90gr +P and Underwood 147gr Hollowpoint (nosler) +P.

In 45 the 230gr HST dumps big coons and coyotes quickly.

Got suggestions?

If you're looking for a carry gun for animals such as bears, nothing smaller than a 357 and go up from there.

A hole nearly a half inch in diameter will do that.

I carry a Glock 20 in 10mm for that. But I’m trying to figure out how 9mm is supposed to be great for 200lb 2legged predators if a 20lb fox shrugs off a double lung shot?

Sorry, no fox is gonna shrug of any body shot from a 9mm.

I don't shoot jacket bullets that much I use cast bullets I think there alot better for hunting and self defence.

how far away are we talking about on these shots at 50 yards your bullet drop on 9mm out of a 4" barrel is 1-2 inches and 3-6 at 75.

I’ve shot two of em. Did they die? Yes. But I couldn’t tell if I’d actually hit em by the way they acted. Both double lung shots. I’ve done it. Have you? Or are you living in hypotheticals?

they didnt shrug it off if they died...animals will still go a ways with a lung or even heart shot.

It’s funny you mentioned the 9mm. We had about 9 hogs in the trap and as I grabbed my .22 a guy with me said I got this and pulled out his 9mm. After emptying the mag and finally killing 3, I used the .22 with one shot each for the remainder pigs. Now what’s even funnier is he got in the trap to start dragging them out and 2 of the 3 he shot weren’t dead afterall, lol.
To put it in context, he was shoulder/lung shooting no more than 10-12ft.
I was between the eyes/ear hole shooting.

That got me thinking about the same thing you mentioned. If in a self defense situation my only goal is to protect my family and get them out of harms way. But, I want to know if I use my 9 that is will hopefully slow down if not outright kill the threat. So the next time we caught pigs I took my .45. Only shot three, 2 head shots and one shoulder shot. All were 225gr self defense rounds and the only pic that quivered a minute or two was the shoulder shot pig.

Personally I think it’s shot placement more than anything else with game. But, with that said, I’m gonna use the maximum/minimum firepower to do so.

All shots within 30yards

I’m not here to have an argument on cartridges. I still plan on carrying my 9mm because I can shoot it accurately, quickly and weak handed relatively well. Better than my bigger cartridges. My questions are more philosophical. Is it better to shoot something with more authority? Or is a gun fight more about capacity, concealment, being able to shoot weak handed, etc?

I would think in a self defense situation, just getting rounds on target is enough of a deterrent. We’re not talking battle here, they aren’t coming to kill you unless it’s someone just crazy, but even then, not many stand around when being shot at or hit.

A deer can run 30yds with a double lung shot from a high powered rifle. I doubt a human will.

self defense situations are situational. You got a guy charging at you, you probably will want something that has a lot of power behind it to put them down. A stand-off fight youll want more capacity, or extra mags. Its hard to get both. Over half of the self defense shootings occur inside 10 feet so stopping power would be my preference.

Like others have said, they aren't going to die immediately from a lung shot. If you want to shoot fox, and don't want the messy head shot, figure out where the heart is, then a .22 bullet is plenty . If I ever had to shoot a person i suspect I would automatically shoot for the brain, even though that's not the biggest target. Nothing gets up after a bullet to the brain.

what gun are you running the 147gr HST out of , hollow point expansion is velocity based

I tried 147gr Ranger T LE on coons and it might as well have been very expensive FMJ
I was using my G19 and basically FMJ
124gr XTP work better for me

I do hear they plug up they are intended for targets wearing not much more than a T-shirt and thus Hornady critical duty
many of the LE/Duty ammo also give up some expansion to barrier penetration.
and most duty type rounds are not well suited to shorter barrels
45 never gets as much velocity so is designed to expand at the speeds it gets

try dropping to a lighter bullet and get more velocity and see if the coon respond differently something like a 124gr

how much it is like a real gun fight I can't say , I figure if it works on coon that don't have any understanding of what it should or shouldn't do then it should work on other targets made of flesh and bone