Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: WI Outdoors]
#8182672
07/27/24 10:16 AM
07/27/24 10:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 280 MN
K9BeavCoon
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What kind of bullets are you shooting? Bullet construction plays a big part. So far I’ve used Federal HST 147gr, Underwood extreme defender 90gr +P and Underwood 147gr Hollowpoint (nosler) +P. In 45 the 230gr HST dumps big coons and coyotes quickly. Got suggestions?
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: K9BeavCoon]
#8182673
07/27/24 10:16 AM
07/27/24 10:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,297 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
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If you're looking for a carry gun for animals such as bears, nothing smaller than a 357 and go up from there.
Have you ever listened to someone for quite a while and wondered...."Who ties your shoelaces for you?"
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: K9BeavCoon]
#8182680
07/27/24 10:27 AM
07/27/24 10:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,128 MN
160user
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trapper
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MN
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What kind of bullets are you shooting? Bullet construction plays a big part. So far I’ve used Federal HST 147gr, Underwood extreme defender 90gr +P and Underwood 147gr Hollowpoint (nosler) +P. In 45 the 230gr HST dumps big coons and coyotes quickly. Got suggestions? A hole nearly a half inch in diameter will do that.
I have nothing clever to put here.
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: Trapper7]
#8182687
07/27/24 10:36 AM
07/27/24 10:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
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K9BeavCoon
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If you're looking for a carry gun for animals such as bears, nothing smaller than a 357 and go up from there. I carry a Glock 20 in 10mm for that. But I’m trying to figure out how 9mm is supposed to be great for 200lb 2legged predators if a 20lb fox shrugs off a double lung shot?
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: K9BeavCoon]
#8182697
07/27/24 10:49 AM
07/27/24 10:49 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,100 western mn
bucksnbears
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Sorry, no fox is gonna shrug of any body shot from a 9mm.
swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo
You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: K9BeavCoon]
#8182706
07/27/24 11:03 AM
07/27/24 11:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,324 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
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If you're looking for a carry gun for animals such as bears, nothing smaller than a 357 and go up from there. I carry a Glock 20 in 10mm for that. But I’m trying to figure out how 9mm is supposed to be great for 200lb 2legged predators if a 20lb fox shrugs off a double lung shot? how far away are we talking about on these shots at 50 yards your bullet drop on 9mm out of a 4" barrel is 1-2 inches and 3-6 at 75.
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: bucksnbears]
#8182708
07/27/24 11:04 AM
07/27/24 11:04 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
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K9BeavCoon
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Sorry, no fox is gonna shrug of any body shot from a 9mm.
I’ve shot two of em. Did they die? Yes. But I couldn’t tell if I’d actually hit em by the way they acted. Both double lung shots. I’ve done it. Have you? Or are you living in hypotheticals?
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: K9BeavCoon]
#8182710
07/27/24 11:11 AM
07/27/24 11:11 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,324 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
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Sorry, no fox is gonna shrug of any body shot from a 9mm.
I’ve shot two of em. Did they die? Yes. But I couldn’t tell if I’d actually hit em by the way they acted. Both double lung shots. I’ve done it. Have you? Or are you living in hypotheticals? they didnt shrug it off if they died...animals will still go a ways with a lung or even heart shot.
Last edited by SNIPERBBB; 07/27/24 11:11 AM.
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: K9BeavCoon]
#8182714
07/27/24 11:17 AM
07/27/24 11:17 AM
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,403 SW Georgia
Wanna Be
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It’s funny you mentioned the 9mm. We had about 9 hogs in the trap and as I grabbed my .22 a guy with me said I got this and pulled out his 9mm. After emptying the mag and finally killing 3, I used the .22 with one shot each for the remainder pigs. Now what’s even funnier is he got in the trap to start dragging them out and 2 of the 3 he shot weren’t dead afterall, lol. To put it in context, he was shoulder/lung shooting no more than 10-12ft. I was between the eyes/ear hole shooting.
That got me thinking about the same thing you mentioned. If in a self defense situation my only goal is to protect my family and get them out of harms way. But, I want to know if I use my 9 that is will hopefully slow down if not outright kill the threat. So the next time we caught pigs I took my .45. Only shot three, 2 head shots and one shoulder shot. All were 225gr self defense rounds and the only pic that quivered a minute or two was the shoulder shot pig.
Personally I think it’s shot placement more than anything else with game. But, with that said, I’m gonna use the maximum/minimum firepower to do so.
Last edited by Wanna Be; 07/27/24 11:17 AM.
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: SNIPERBBB]
#8182717
07/27/24 11:24 AM
07/27/24 11:24 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
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K9BeavCoon
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[quote=Trapper7]If you're looking for a carry gun for animals such as bears, nothing smaller than a 357 and go up from there. how far away are we talking about on these shots at 50 yards your bullet drop on 9mm out of a 4" barrel is 1-2 inches and 3-6 at 75. All shots within 30yards
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: SNIPERBBB]
#8182720
07/27/24 11:28 AM
07/27/24 11:28 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 280 MN
K9BeavCoon
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[quote=bucksnbears]Sorry, no fox is gonna shrug of any body shot from a 9mm.
they didnt shrug it off if they died...animals will still go a ways with a lung or even heart shot. I’m not here to have an argument on cartridges. I still plan on carrying my 9mm because I can shoot it accurately, quickly and weak handed relatively well. Better than my bigger cartridges. My questions are more philosophical. Is it better to shoot something with more authority? Or is a gun fight more about capacity, concealment, being able to shoot weak handed, etc?
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: K9BeavCoon]
#8182728
07/27/24 11:53 AM
07/27/24 11:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,622 PA
PAskinner
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Like others have said, they aren't going to die immediately from a lung shot. If you want to shoot fox, and don't want the messy head shot, figure out where the heart is, then a .22 bullet is plenty . If I ever had to shoot a person i suspect I would automatically shoot for the brain, even though that's not the biggest target. Nothing gets up after a bullet to the brain.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Hunting vs Self Defense
[Re: K9BeavCoon]
#8182733
07/27/24 12:09 PM
07/27/24 12:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 19,933 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Green County Wisconsin
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What kind of bullets are you shooting? Bullet construction plays a big part. So far I’ve used Federal HST 147gr, Underwood extreme defender 90gr +P and Underwood 147gr Hollowpoint (nosler) +P. In 45 the 230gr HST dumps big coons and coyotes quickly. Got suggestions? what gun are you running the 147gr HST out of , hollow point expansion is velocity based I tried 147gr Ranger T LE on coons and it might as well have been very expensive FMJ I was using my G19 and basically FMJ 124gr XTP work better for me I do hear they plug up they are intended for targets wearing not much more than a T-shirt and thus Hornady critical duty many of the LE/Duty ammo also give up some expansion to barrier penetration. and most duty type rounds are not well suited to shorter barrels 45 never gets as much velocity so is designed to expand at the speeds it gets try dropping to a lighter bullet and get more velocity and see if the coon respond differently something like a 124gr how much it is like a real gun fight I can't say , I figure if it works on coon that don't have any understanding of what it should or shouldn't do then it should work on other targets made of flesh and bone
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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