You can not convince me that these are just "random".

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/apalachee-high-school-barrow-county-hard-lockdown

As predictable as a virus comeback near election time….

I feel for the families involved and everyone involved for that matter. Happens way to often down there, not sure what the anwser is but take care guys...

well it's the access to guns, hold the parents accountable like they did in Michigan...

https://apnews.com/article/james-cr...hooting-e5888f615c76c3b26153c34dc36d5436

School safety and mental health. Both to expensive according to many. Save the money for Ukraine and put an officer in each school.

Let the teachers who want to cc do so

Mankind was destined to destroy itself and it is. Look how many kids third-world societies produce compared to working class.

This and now Russia gate again....

Typical ....fjb and camel calling it gun violence

Trump ..calling what it is .....a sick and twisted monster

Turns out 14yo Colt Gray was on everyone's radar, imagine that. In 23 online threats and photos of firearms got flagged and the Atlanta field office FBI involved. They notified Jackson County SD and both interviewed the kid and father. School authorities notified. Since then moved next door to Barrow County where this happened.

I smell a rat as Georgia has a pretty strong DFACS and they should've immediately stepped in gotten the kid into counseling if not protective care.

Some of the stuff I'm seeing, all unconfirmed, is pretty sick and sad.

About the victims or the shooter ?

The shooter. A supposed screen capture of some of his social media.

If the shooter wants notoriety....he can be the youngest to die in the electric Chair.

This. Always thought this would help ALOT.

Certainly would. Back when I was in school we had Doc Crane, a retired teacher and Korea Marine who volunteered around the school. According to some he still packed his issued 45. I do know he wasn't to be messed with.
I also knew a High School librarian and Sunday School teacher that packed a 38. She gave birth to me.

That is what Israel does. It works.

When is the last time you heard of a school shooting in Israel ?

Prayers to all those involved. What a horrible deal.
Most here would agree that gun control laws are not the answer.

Same old formula we have seen at Columbine, Heath, Marjory Stoneham, Sandy Hook, and The Covenant School.

1). Failure to have access control for the school. (In ALL cases)

2). LE already had info that the kid was likely to become a school shooter (Most cases)

3). Failure to prevent the mentally ill from getting access to firearms (All cases)

4). Parents not engaged with kids and aware of their mental health and activities (Most cases)


While the left calls for more gun control I wish Trump would promise to block all federal funding from any school that does not have secure access control to prevent anyone from entering with a weapon except those approved to do so. We have secure access control for our court houses, our nuclear plants, and many other facilities, but won't bother to do it to protect our most precious resource.

That kid wouldn't have got into a SS office or courthouse in Arkansas. I had to take my folding pocket knife back to the pickup. Grandma can't take nail clippers on a plane but 14 yr old kids can get a gun in school.

on the other hand get the youth complacency trained to a complete police state and where being stopped and searched is the norm. they will never think to claim any 4 amendment violations in their life.

all knee jerk reactions without looking down the road at the unintended things that will happen. loss of freedom always starts with the best sounding intentions.


do something more government control is always the answer. no concern about the draconian laws and tools already in place the were not used. more is always the answer not accountable for whay measures in place were not used and effective. sad even in what's considered the more free thinking people left the patterns shows up.

Agreed happened to me at the courthouse in Traverse City Any tragedy the gov. creates a trillion dollar agency EXCEPT for schools

I can't find a picture of the kid.....why would that be?

Here ya go.
Article with picture

any pictures you will see will be old pictures when they are younger not current pictures that will show they are part of the woke freak show. let's see how right I am on this but just a guess going on past performance.

I would suggest abolishing all government indoctrination camps aka schools. That way we quit gathering all the targets in one location.

Turn the responsibility and safety back over to the parents where it should be.

What parents in some cases?? It’s really a sad deal with no easy answer or cure all. As PF eluded to, some of the fixes have other repercussions.

I also think it’s sad that SOME people evidently truly believe things like this are orchestrated or planned so to speak by anyone other than the psychotic person who did it. I don’t care how anyone thinks politically, but to think even in your head that politicians actually ever think…… “if we could only get 3 or 4 more school shootings this year that would sure help me politically!”….if any of you truly believe or think that, man I feel sorry for you.

So many underlying issues that lead up to this kind of thing that I agree many could be snuffed out or “fixed” in various ways. But that’s a discussion that’s been already partially covered and I surely don’t have the time or energy to go over here. Prayers to the families of those who lost loved ones and were affected. Happy trapping! ScottW

It's hard for me to understand. When I was in school, we might have had some disagreements. The worse result might have been a scrap or so, but shooting someone was never even considered. We might have a couple teachers we didn't care for, but we still had respect for them. For those reasons, I'd say we were better kids than that. All this wokeness pushed by the left adds to the problem.

The biggest mass murderers in history have all been politicians. What makes you think some of ours are any different?

Some people would blame government no matter what they did. Their only goal is to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) and moan about it. They change their agenda according to the event.

“No government outreach! No background checks! “Then…..
“The government shouldve done something! All the signs were there!” Funny how some claim to be right wing then do a 180.

Sounds like parenting failure. Again..

I may be reading your response wrong but I read it as a shot at me. if I'm right it shows lack of reading compression and a boot licker willing to trade freedoms for false security.

what I wrote was we all read have government overreacting programs in place and they were not used or failed. that's never addressed instead it's we just need more control and you get less freedom .


if your thinking the first way and can't read and comprehend and are a bent over for the state take your shots and stay locked down boot licker I have no use for you and you are a huge part of the problem.

if I'm reading your responds wrong I apologize and disregard my response.

The blame lies directly at the feet of our govt. The leftists with their anti-God, anti-family agenda has destroyed the societal norms that kept things in check then further compounded by the statist neocons/conservative govt intervention just "do something" control.

Let me tell you a story from the 50s.

There was a nice quiet blue collar community. All the menfolk worked out at the mill, US Steel Fairfield Works. One of them was bad to get liquored up on payday and come home to take it out on the wife and kids.

We're the police called? Did the govt do something? Nope.

The men of the community did. They drug his butt out into the front yard, tied him off to an oak tree and horse whipped him and assured him that if he ever laid a hand on the wife or kids again that they would be back and he wouldn't be coming back.

Well the fellow sobered up and stayed on the wagon for a time. When he eventually fell off the wagon wouldn't you know it he came up missing. Actually he was put on a bus leaving town and told never to return.

The wife and kids were provided for by the community church.


We used to know how to handle things without needing the govt.

When the nuclear plant I worked at for almost 20 years was in outage, we had approx 2000 workers on site. Most worked 12 hr shifts so we processed in about 1000 workers every morning and evening. No fuss, no muss, no guns, no bombs, no significant delays. It can be done without creating a prison mentality, but only if it is given priority.

The blame lies directly at the feet of our govt. The leftists with their anti-God, anti-family agenda has destroyed the societal norms that kept things in check then further compounded by the statist neocons/conservative govt intervention just "do something" control.

Let me tell you a story from the 50s.

There was a nice quiet blue collar community. All the menfolk worked out at the mill, US Steel Fairfield Works. One of them was bad to get liquored up on payday and come home to take it out on the wife and kids.

We're the police called? Did the govt do something? Nope.

The men of the community did. They drug his butt out into the front yard, tied him off to an oak tree and horse whipped him and assured him that if he ever laid a hand on the wife or kids again that they would be back and he wouldn't be coming back.

Well the fellow sobered up and stayed on the wagon for a time. When he eventually fell off the wagon wouldn't you know it he came up missing. Actually he was put on a bus leaving town and told never to return.

The wife and kids were provided for by the community church.


We used to know how to handle things without needing the govt.[/quote]

This, not many remember how the government enforced DR, Spock's theory of not disciplining children .
The government took away the parents rights to raise their children the right way.
Then the government started equal rights , and forced people to except being replaced by others of minorities in the work force.
That includes men and women.
That became the end of a stay at home parent, both had to work to make ends meet.
Children became an inconvenience to the working class.
That's why families are so much smaller today.
When there were 4-14 kids in a family in the 50's now there's an average of 1.3 kids per family.
Strangers spend more time with the children than the parents do.
All this has caused mental issues of many kinds, and the government shut down mental health hospitals because it was cruel and inhumane .
Yes the government getting more and more control, is the root of our problems.

Not every problem has a ( government ) solution.

Government IS the problem.

Providence Farm I was agreeing with your post completely. Sorry for the mixup

Here’s his mugshot from yesterday.

Maybe another bullying issue

The father has been arrested and charged. He bought the gun as a gift for the son and admitted to it.

That was stupid of him.

Is that illegal in your state???

Doubly so considering he had was aware of his son's threats to shoot up a school.

My question as well.
The gun ain't the problem.

The prosecutor has charged the kid as an adult. And now charges the father with murder based on the actions of his kid. I don’t see how you can do both.

Either charge the kid as an adult, ( I believe that is proper ), or charge the kid as a juvenile and hold the father culpable too.

Are they going to arrest the police that interviewed the kid a year earlier and determined he wasn’t a threat to anyone?

This country is getting so whacked.

If that is what it’s come to are we going to give parents complete authority to deal with kids dishonoring them, including kidnapping and or termination?

Not illegal to buy a gun. Technically illegal to gift it, as in transfer ownership, to a 14yo as it is everywhere. Like most places not an issue to get your kid a squirrel/deer gun.

But in this case the dad got a visit in 23 by the local sheriff and FBI because Jr was online saying he was going to shoot up a school and posting photos of guns. Evidently not enough at that time to haul anyone in so it got a stern talking to and case closed.

Since that time they moved counties AND dad bought and gave the boy the gun.

Evidently there apparently is some reason to believe dad wasn't exactly dad of the year material and might be the reason Jr is messed up.

That still leaves a question in my mind as to just why wasn't DFACS immediately involved? They are supposed to intervene and snatch kids out of bad situations.

I know that in my county they are quick to step in and the schools have them on speed dial.

But DFACS is a government organization, I thought government was bad?
And what about the kid’s right to keep and bear arms? Or are you saying it can be decided that right doesn’t apply to some?
You need to get your stories straight.

The Average Liberal government school policies messed that kid up.

Why?

What federal law states that? If that's true millions of gun owners could be arrested.

Of course it was idiotic for the father to give a gun to a kid who threatened to shoot up a school. It was also idiotic to not get that kid psychiatric help.

But I'm still questioning the legality of the arrest.

You're right, and I'm no fan of DFACS. But it is what is in place and IMO someone dropped the ball once this kid and his dad hit the radar. But if the dad is indeed an irresponsible scumbag then I have no issue with him getting the full ride even if the methodology is flawed.

And no child has the right to keep and bear arms. And that will pass Bruen scrutiny as there are exemplars from the time of the founding. Namely the prohibitions on slaves bearing arms. Hate to use such hateful laws but children are the property of their parents when it comes to certain liberties such as contract law, the draft, criminal representation, etc. At best a child and guns falls under the same area as teaching a child to drive under parental supervision. If an unsupervised child was turned loose with a car by a parent then the parent is responsible.

Again... what is your source? Is this GA law?

Cause apparently it's not federal law.... https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...munition-gift-juvenile-less-18-years-age

Federal law prohibits minors from purchasing. I may be wrong on technical ownership. Maybe one of our barristers will chime in on that but I'm assuming that if you can't buy then you can't own as in title to own. Most state laws mirror the federal but that may be changing currently.

Of course most of us were raised with guns and had access to if not outright possession of. But I would also believe most of us had daddies that taught us to be trusted around power tools like that. I know I had a shotgun by my bed from junior high on and the day I turned 18 I walked into Simmons Sporting Goods cash in hand.

According to the link I posted above, the ATF says it's legal to gift your child a gun.

So, unless GA explicitly prohibits it, I can't see that charge sticking.

I kept and beared arms when I was ten.

Warrior. Did your Dad,Uncle,Gramps ever offer you a beer/ drink before you turned legal age?

I stand corrected, mea culpa. Thanks for the link.

Now that I think of my initial supposition of rights and age of majority was flawed. That would imply minors have none of the rights enumerated in the constitution and that can't be correct.

Thank you again for making me think.

Nope, teetotaling Southern Baptists. Had to figure that one out all on my own.

Now that I think of it I am aware of examples in history where slave owners would allow trusted slaves to be armed.

It's all good. I tried reading GA's convoluted laws, lol, but I couldn't find anything about minors and long guns, only handguns. All I could find was an anti-gun website that stated there was no minimum age to possess long guns in GA.

So, if it's federally legal, and also legal in the state, what right do they have to arrest the father? I didn't think being stupid was a crime.

I don't know, it might not hold up in front of a judge. What exactly was he charged with? I know for the deaths four counts second degree. I need to study up on that but I believe that is death due to negligence not intent. Arguing that he was negligent in giving the gun to a known risk?

I do know that Georgia prosecutes almost all deaths from car accidents where the surviving driver did something wrong. So they take negligence pretty seriously here.

I thought the FBI cleared that kid of making threats. Why should his father be held responsible? Why isn't the FBI responsible?

Or maybe the FBI did something else with it? At this point anything is plausible.

All you folks thinking the dad should be charged because he let his kid use a gun, I guess you wait until yours turn 21 before they go hunting.

I'm thinking if he abused the child and/or was negligent to the point that he didn't get the boy help and then gave the boy a gun then hang him.

The one key fact all y'all are not taking into consideration is the Dad was fully aware that the boy wanted to shoot up a school a year ago.

So any of y'all willing to pour drinks for a known drunk driver?

Was he? The FBI said the kid wasn't a threat.

Do you trust the FBI?

Obviously, they guessed wrong.

Aside from the gun, and I'm fully on board with being concerned that gun owning parents could get unjustly targeted, we have to admit that in our society today parents are turning out monsters.

If it's not school shootings it's drugs, perversion, and general antisocial behaviors.

But undoubtedly the powers that be would use that concern to target the parents doing it right.

Adam Lanza's (Sandy Hook shooter) mother knew he was a fruitcake and she had guns in the house. It cost her life and a bunch more.

I know a Jamacian guy I used to work with who refused to own a gun. He said could not trust his kid. I told to get a locked gun safe. He said , no , kid would find the key. I suggested one with a keypad combination lock , he said , no ,the kid would find a way to get in that too. He said , you don't know my kid.

No gun in that house.
Major respect for the father , he knew what he was dealing with.

Good on him. I just hate to see people automatically jump on the "lock up the parents" bus before the facts come out.

The father willingly gave his son the gun used to murder 2 children and 2 teachers as a Christmas present in THE SAME year that the Federal Bureau of Investigation came to the house investigating claims of the kid threatening to shoot up a school.

He is an accessory to murder. He supplied a weapon to a kid who already threatened a school shooting at 13 years old. Who in their right mind would think that is a good idea? The kid couldn't legally buy that gun anywhere in this country, it should have never been in his possession.

It's the same thing as them charging drug dealers for murder who sell fentanyl laced drugs that lead to OD deaths. They are supplying a dangerous (thing) to someone else that results in loss of life. Although they didn't physically cause the death, their initial contributions to the scenario is what led to the death.

This isn't about taking away gun rights, this is about punishing those who cannot commit to gun safety (i.e. supplying a minor with an AR-15 while knowing his earlier threats). You should be mad as (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) with this father. This conversation would *probably* not be happening had he not bought his son that gun

All you defending the father, just think about this. If your child, husband, wife, friends, or family were murdered by an unhinged 14 year old with a gun that was bought as a Christmas present, by his father, with the knowledge that his son had already threatened to shoot up a school... Would you not demand justice and punishment?

No one on here wants to see these guns outlawed and rights taken away. But when you have situations like this, we are literally one bad apple away from that happening. These irresponsible people deserve punishment to the fullest extent of the law. It's nuts that there are so many responsible gun owners and you have isolated instances like this stoking the flames to take away the rights of the responsible.

Could the kid have still committed the shooting with another gun? Sure. But that's not what happened.

Here's to hoping the father has a weak grip and can't hold onto the soap.

Easy now. I understand where these guys are coming from. I fear my govt, too, and don't trust the media either.

I don't fault anyone who questions anything. I encourage everyone to question everything.

But in this case if all I'm reading is indeed correct the dad carries much of the responsibility along with the son.

Hopefully this won't put a target on gunowners backs or bring down needless regulation. But I do think we are long overdue a conversation on what to do with the breeders that are turning out monsters. It won't be an easy discussion either. And as in most things today it goes back to "progressive" ideas that have torn down all the guard rails.

you must have inside info. all I see is the FBI an Local law looked into the kid and had nothing said no threat.

you have no idea what the dad thought or believed and are reacting emotionally and with speculation. I don't know what he knew or didn't know either.

BUT while your clapping and chearing for him to be hung at least keep in mind the anti gun people don't care how many kids get killed or how many shooting happen they just want us disarmed and by any means necessary.

maybe this guy needs to be in trouble maybe not . But when you can't get your kids guns it WILL be used against all of us. and when you are not geting and around guns at a young age you get less people with fond child memories and less passion for their 2nd amendment rights.

don't fall victim to knee jerk emotional reactions.

The father bought the kid a gun after knowing he made online threats, and was consequentially investigated for said threats with FBI involvement in May of 2023. Nothing was done, the father said the kid had no unsupervised access, they decided to sit back and keep an eye on the kid. Fast forward 7 months: "Here son, Merry Christmas. I know you were investigated for threatening to shoot up a school, and nothing really became of it, but I went out and got you this AR-15. Please be careful with it."

That is a major lapse in judgement. A major lapse in judgement that cost 4 innocent lives. It's indefensible. He supplied a firearm to a person who had a known risk of threats of violence with get this.... A firearm. I don't have any insider information. What I have is empathy for the innocent, and hatred for the aggressors and enablers.

You have about 5 or 6 of these AR shooters every year pull a stunt like this. Those 5 or 6 people are going to eventually wipe out the rights of millions.

Whether you agree with it or not, the father is going to go down. The charges are gonna stick like stink on Providence Farm after a 16 hour shift.


I do not think the father believed his son posed a serious threat. But the threat was real, the threat was made, and yet he stilled gifted him a weapon 7 months later. He holds responsibility and thus deserves punishment.

Guess we’ll be rounding up all the fathers that abandoned children that turned to a life of crime or fathers that didn’t discipline them.

How many generations would it take to get rid of guns altogether if they are scared out of the hands of our youth?

father bought the gun, and has been arrested

I wonder what the kid told his dad he needed the gun for? It is just a tool for a job.

I bought my son a gun for a Christmas present when he was 8. That doesn't mean he had unfettered access to it. It wasnt locked up, but he didnt touch it without me. How exactly did the father "know" he made threats? According to the FBI, the boy didn't. Do you know everything your kid has ever posted online? Most parents don't, even if the think they do.

I'm not really defending the father. I'm against the concept of jumping to emotional conclusions that will lead to more and more regulations on law abiding gun owners.

exactly BandB my kids received guns by 5. and before 10 could have access. this 4th my wife was mad when she thought the boys were using fire works unsupervised. but she was OK and apologized to them when it turned out they were shooting their rifles not using fireworks.

they are very eager to disarm us

Because they are half way there.

I bet a lot of the people on here complaining that the father bought his kid a gun, will be on another thread sooner or later, lamenting how young kids don't go hunting anymore.

The father may be guilty of stupidity but I don't believe he committed any crime.

I like how everyone speculates with knee jerk reaction right after these things happen without waiting for real facts to come out. Guilty until proven innocent right? Smh.

The father, Colin Gray, has been charged with 2 counts of 2nd degree Felony Murder, 4 counts of Involuntary Manslaughter and 8 counts of 2nd degree Cruelty to Children.

I think that is complete BS.

I also believe James and Jennifer Crumbly's convictions on Involuntary Manslaughter for the actions of their son were wrong and set a dangerous precedent for gun owners everywhere.

Only if you're raising monsters.

“Raising monsters”, so the liberals have it right, victims have no accountability for their actions. Perhaps the dad was abused as a child as well as his dad and his daddy’s daddy.

If that is the way it is then Trump should be in jail as well as the two Presidents before him.

Thats dangerous thinking in my opinion. If Kyle Rittenhouse's verdict didnt go the way it did would his dad have been punished? (I dont recall the specifics, but I thought he was under aged) Would he be considered a monster? Would you want to be held responsible if a self defense case didnt go the way you wanted for your children/grandchildren? Obviously this isnt a self defense case, but that line gets blurry I would think

So the bad apple defense. One of your swimmers must've been defective is a bs excuse.

Sure kids make mistakes but intentional murder ain't a mistake and if a parent has caused or allowed such action then hold them accountable.

Wish I knew the answer to this, really do but I don't.

As a parent, if my kid posted about shooting up a school, he'd not have a gun. Period.

Is it this parents fault is a really big question. Its easy to say people are taking guns from kids hands, but that's a very narrow minded loom at taking guns from a kid that said he'd shoot a school up, or prosecuting a parent that gave a kid a gun that hast said he'd shoot a school up. There's a big difference.

Are we going to allow the parents to squash that grape if it doesn’t conform to the vine?

If need be. Mine know full well that if in the right I got their back, if in the wrong I'll drive them to the jail myself.

I guess I'm a sith parent because I do deal in absolutes.

BTW,

Told y'all the kid had been messed with. Wonder where that happened?

Are you really going to try and tell us there has never been a child that experienced the best in upbringing but became a criminal anyway?

Are you really going to try and tell us there has never been a child that experienced the best in upbringing but became a criminal anyway?
[/quote]

No, raised by God fearing parents and I did some pretty stupid stuff. Happens all the time.

But if a parent ain't actively doing everything within their power to prevent, for that matter any family member, or worse stands by and allows then they bear responsibility for their lack of response.

So if folks on a subway do nothing while someone is getting a beating the whole car should be charged with assault. Got it.

Carry on.

Yes

Would probably be a lot of grannies in jail who are working and trying to raise their grand children. Hard for a single elderly woman to have the tools to discipline a nearly grown teenager under those circumstances. Reckon she goes to jail or the parent?. What you are saying is good in theory I guess, but not real practical for everyone. I’d imagine a lot of preachers kids have done some drunk driving and other debauchery. If something bad happens should the parents be punished for letting them drive the car even if they didn’t know they were gonna be drinking?

The concept of charging someone, anyone, with a crime someone else committed is ridiculous. Colin Gray did not commit a crime and should not be charged with any crime.

If the father is guilty because the son made threats he knew about, where are the charges against the FBI agents who knew, yet did nothing? Why aren't they culpable?

They were smart enough not to buy him gun.

Buying your son a gun is not a crime. At least not for now.

So if you let me borrow your car, and I wipe someone out because I got drunk, you should be charged too?

Doubtful, but if you give your child beer and a car he kills someone with, probably.

If I knew you were a drunk headed to the bar, yes.

The word we're looking for is REASONABLE. If it is reasonable for me to expect bad consequences for an act on my part then guilty.

Same reason a bartender can get charged for over serving.

The gun issue in this case blurs things and raises alarm bells, I get it.

Maybe we need to start charging the parents of these antifa, hamas, blm agitators when they riot and burn stuff.

IMO, this dad had reasonable cause to believe his son had no business with a firearm. And the more we learn it sounds like it's more than just a prior visit by the FBI.

Don’t want to take a chance of your kid going on offense with those self defense classes you put them through, better just teach them how to take a beating instead. lol

Bartender? Better add the arms dealer and manufacturer to that list. Especially if they knew the dad was buying the gun for his kid. I can’t imagine that didn’t come up in conversation.