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Brokerage account #8231587
10/08/24 02:32 PM
10/08/24 02:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 3,145
WI
WI Outdoors Offline OP
trapper
WI Outdoors  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 3,145
WI
Why have one vs roth ira?

Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8231602
10/08/24 02:49 PM
10/08/24 02:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,908
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,908
McGrath, AK
There might be things you would be better off owning OUTSIDE of an IRA. Also there may be some investments that are not well suited to be held inside an IRA. Limited partnerships come to mind.


Mean As Nails
Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8231634
10/08/24 03:22 PM
10/08/24 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 5,235
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 5,235
MN
Roth has a contribution maximum.

Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8231718
10/08/24 04:51 PM
10/08/24 04:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,851
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
M
martentrapper Offline
trapper
martentrapper  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,851
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
I assume the brokerage account is taxable. The Roth is not.

Re: Brokerage account [Re: martentrapper] #8231726
10/08/24 05:07 PM
10/08/24 05:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 3,145
WI
WI Outdoors Offline OP
trapper
WI Outdoors  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 3,145
WI
Originally Posted by martentrapper
I assume the brokerage account is taxable. The Roth is not.

Yes

Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8231769
10/08/24 06:16 PM
10/08/24 06:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,286
St. Cloud, MN
trapperkeck Offline
trapper
trapperkeck  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,286
St. Cloud, MN
I have both, I can only contribute $8,000.00 in a Roth this year, but I want to invest more than that. My earnings in my individual brokerage accounts grow tax free, until I sell the stock. If I hold them long enough, I also get a more favorable tax treatment as long term capital gains. If a dividend is paid, I do have to pay taxes on that, however, most of the stocks I own in my brokerage account don't pay a dividend anyway. Don't let taxes be your only reason/guide for investing.


"The voice of reason!"
Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8231772
10/08/24 06:19 PM
10/08/24 06:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,297
chelsea,wi
keets Offline
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keets  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,297
chelsea,wi
If you can put away enough, have both


2021 goals....make time to trap
PROUD MEMBER WTA NTA FTA GOA SPORTSMANS ALLIANCE
Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8231788
10/08/24 06:37 PM
10/08/24 06:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,435
Williamsport, Pa.
J
jk Offline
trapper
jk  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,435
Williamsport, Pa.
Yes have a cash account so that when you retire before age 62 you have spare cash......jk


Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. What's supposed to be ain't always is. Hopper Hunter
Re: Brokerage account [Re: trapperkeck] #8231795
10/08/24 06:57 PM
10/08/24 06:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 12,034
MT
S
snowy Offline
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snowy  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 12,034
MT
Originally Posted by trapperkeck
I have both, I can only contribute $8,000.00 in a Roth this year, but I want to invest more than that. My earnings in my individual brokerage accounts grow tax free, until I sell the stock. If I hold them long enough, I also get a more favorable tax treatment as long term capital gains. If a dividend is paid, I do have to pay taxes on that, however, most of the stocks I own in my brokerage account don't pay a dividend anyway. Don't let taxes be your only reason/guide for investing.

Exactly!
401K alone isn't enough with limits of investing. A complete portfolio with investments should include all other investing opportunities.


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8232039
10/08/24 10:37 PM
10/08/24 10:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 11,834
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 11,834
Indiana

I have both a Roth for myself and one for my wife , (401, 401 Roth), brokerage accounts for myself and custodial a brokerage accounts for the kids.

Retirement accounts have limits. for me this year it's 23k in the 401 and 401 Roth account combined, an additional 10% after tax can be put in that does not count words the 23k limit an other company match does not count words the limit. The Roth limit is 7 k. I want to invest more so opened a Roth for my wife. She has no earned income but we file jointly so I can put another 7k in a Roth for her. I have brokerage accounts for the kids and they get monthly deposits automatically to build savings up for them.

Basically both if you are saving for retirement hit the limits if you can. Then explore back door Roth options, health saving accounts, are another tax advance account to look into if you hit your the limits on the others.



I prefer the Roths because I think tax rates will go up and would rather get the tax free growth and pay the taxes now. So in my 401 it all goes into the Roth 401 option except the % I need to get the company match that goes in a pre tax part. the extra 10% after tax gets moved into the Roth buy Roth conversion every 6 months basically a back door that let's me put in more than the 7k limit and get the tax free growth on it.

A lot of people think the pre tax 401 I'd better because they will be in a lower tax bracket when they retire so mmnot paying taxes now and having more to invest is better. But Many are surprised to find they make more retired than when they were working especially if they invested well. Add in the growing government debt and the likelihood of tax increases it may be better to pay taxes now than in the future.

Re: Brokerage account [Re: Providence Farm] #8233059
10/10/24 11:14 AM
10/10/24 11:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,908
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,908
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Providence Farm

I have both a Roth for myself and one for my wife , (401, 401 Roth), brokerage accounts for myself and custodial a brokerage accounts for the kids.

Retirement accounts have limits. for me this year it's 23k in the 401 and 401 Roth account combined, an additional 10% after tax can be put in that does not count words the 23k limit an other company match does not count words the limit. The Roth limit is 7 k. I want to invest more so opened a Roth for my wife. She has no earned income but we file jointly so I can put another 7k in a Roth for her. I have brokerage accounts for the kids and they get monthly deposits automatically to build savings up for them.

Basically both if you are saving for retirement hit the limits if you can. Then explore back door Roth options, health saving accounts, are another tax advance account to look into if you hit your the limits on the others.



I prefer the Roths because I think tax rates will go up and would rather get the tax free growth and pay the taxes now. So in my 401 it all goes into the Roth 401 option except the % I need to get the company match that goes in a pre tax part. the extra 10% after tax gets moved into the Roth buy Roth conversion every 6 months basically a back door that let's me put in more than the 7k limit and get the tax free growth on it.

A lot of people think the pre tax 401 I'd better because they will be in a lower tax bracket when they retire so mmnot paying taxes now and having more to invest is better. But Many are surprised to find they make more retired than when they were working especially if they invested well. Add in the growing government debt and the likelihood of tax increases it may be better to pay taxes now than in the future.







Excellent point about taxes in the future PF. I agree with you that it is likely that taxes will be higher, both nominally and in real terms, in the future.


Mean As Nails
Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8233387
10/10/24 07:33 PM
10/10/24 07:33 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,246
MN
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,246
MN
I'd lay odds that the roth will lose its tax free status


"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8233427
10/10/24 07:59 PM
10/10/24 07:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,155
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,155
East-Central Wisconsin
We have both ROTH and regular IRA accounts and have securities that are not IRAs, mostly mutual funds, but also some stocks and then we have fixed or cash based assets as well. We chose to invest in savings and the market instead of higher value real estate and that may not have been the best route but the market has worked well for us to date. We have been converting deferred IRAs to ROTH since the new tax law that lowered rates by 3% and also that if family inherits some deferred they now have to claim it all within 10 years and they will be or are in as high or higher brackets then we are. The tax laws will sunset in a coupe years and they will probably be kicked down the road a year or more as there won't be much support for major change in any direction.

Bryce

Re: Brokerage account [Re: Steven 49er] #8233523
10/10/24 09:35 PM
10/10/24 09:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,541
midland, michigan
M
midlander Offline
trapper
midlander  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,541
midland, michigan
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
I'd lay odds that the roth will lose its tax free status

Id take those odds. Wouldnt surprise me if they eliminate future investments in Roths, but I dont believe either party will want to be blamed for trying to implement a tax on current Roths. Just my opinion

Re: Brokerage account [Re: white17] #8239404
10/18/24 01:22 PM
10/18/24 01:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,353
Ohio
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,353
Ohio
You pay taxes on the amount of income you make. When you retire you should be making less money b/c you spent your whole life working to pay everything off. So yeah taxes will be higher percentage number wise but should be less in actual dollars b/c say you made $60k a year through your life and were taxed at the $60k a year tax bracket... but when you retire and are just fishing for crappie out of your jon boat and only drawing $20k out of your account you are paying way less taxes. The idea is to tax defer your money into an account now while you are in the higher tax bracket and then drawing it out for cheaper taxes when you retire b/c you are drawing less and in the lower tax bracket. Not that taxes are generally lower now than they will be when they raise them in the future.


Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by Providence Farm

I have both a Roth for myself and one for my wife , (401, 401 Roth), brokerage accounts for myself and custodial a brokerage accounts for the kids.

Retirement accounts have limits. for me this year it's 23k in the 401 and 401 Roth account combined, an additional 10% after tax can be put in that does not count words the 23k limit an other company match does not count words the limit. The Roth limit is 7 k. I want to invest more so opened a Roth for my wife. She has no earned income but we file jointly so I can put another 7k in a Roth for her. I have brokerage accounts for the kids and they get monthly deposits automatically to build savings up for them.

Basically both if you are saving for retirement hit the limits if you can. Then explore back door Roth options, health saving accounts, are another tax advance account to look into if you hit your the limits on the others.



I prefer the Roths because I think tax rates will go up and would rather get the tax free growth and pay the taxes now. So in my 401 it all goes into the Roth 401 option except the % I need to get the company match that goes in a pre tax part. the extra 10% after tax gets moved into the Roth buy Roth conversion every 6 months basically a back door that let's me put in more than the 7k limit and get the tax free growth on it.

A lot of people think the pre tax 401 I'd better because they will be in a lower tax bracket when they retire so mmnot paying taxes now and having more to invest is better. But Many are surprised to find they make more retired than when they were working especially if they invested well. Add in the growing government debt and the likelihood of tax increases it may be better to pay taxes now than in the future.







Excellent point about taxes in the future PF. I agree with you that it is likely that taxes will be higher, both nominally and in real terms, in the future.


Re: Brokerage account [Re: WI Outdoors] #8239498
10/18/24 04:56 PM
10/18/24 04:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 11,834
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 11,834
Indiana
Ohioboy your correct if you plan on making less. I should be earning at least as much as I do working when I retire off investments alone. also I plan to retire at 57 not 62,65 or 70 like the government wants. I'm debt free now and 20 k would not cut it for us just staying home all the time that requires 26k. Property taxes alone are 10k on the farm and I think 800 on my rent house.

And retiring early means your young and healthy enough to go on all those big ticket hunting trips and world travel with the wife so I will be spending more than the minimum living like I'm broke.


My plans and situation is not anyone else's. BUT many average Joe's that start investing young find out they are making more off investments and pension not even including social security when they retire than they were working. So end up in a higher tax bracket or at least in the same one that were in when working. I'm plan to be able to live off investment income with out touching my investments. I will have more income even if I'm making 20 k less because I won't have 45 to 50k Going into retirement investments each year so if I'm only making 100k I will still have more cash to spend than I do now.

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