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Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243529
10/23/24 11:57 PM
10/23/24 11:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline
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NonPCfed  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
I wish I would have known about cross and silver fox when I was a teenager. There was either a brother or cousin of old WWII CMH/ S.D. Governor/ AFL Football Commissioner Joe Foss that went to our church. Anyway, this other Foss was a big fox/coyote aerial gunner back when that was legal in South Dakota.

He talked to me about their action a few times in the later 1970s when I think it had been banned or severely curtailed. In the 1960s, this guy shotgunned a lot of red fox out of a plane back when eastern SD was mostly fox country and not much 'yote. It would have been cool to learn how many cross or silver fox they shot. I suspect not many but I'm sure he would have remembered them...


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243588
10/24/24 05:32 AM
10/24/24 05:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Michigan
T
Trapper Dahlgren Offline
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Trapper Dahlgren  Offline
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T

Joined: Jun 2016
Michigan
I have caught only a few cross foxes and only seen one silver,

Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243589
10/24/24 05:32 AM
10/24/24 05:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Michigan
T
Trapper Dahlgren Offline
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Joined: Jun 2016
Michigan
here they are smaller than a red fox

Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Michigander] #8243714
10/24/24 10:03 AM
10/24/24 10:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Michigander
I went deer hunting on Kodiak Island last year and the fox were one of the coolest things there. I saw normal reds, cross and silvers throughout my time. All were seen at one point or another under 3 yards. There is no trees to speak of where we were. They were huge too, double or more of our Michigan fox.

This is Buster the camp fox. He was very well fed while we were there. Almost tame enough to eat out of your hand. I managed to sneak up on him sleeping in the grass and run my fingers through his fur to get a quick grade.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


I believe these are an invasive species brought by ranchers to Kodiak. Lot of alien species, including the deer, on Kodiak.

"The red fox is common in most of northern North America. It is found throughout Alaska, except for some of the islands of Southeast Alaska and the western Aleutians and is rare in Prince William Sound. It is native to Kodiak Island but is an introduced animal on many islands in the state as a result of fox farming operations in the early 1900s"

Maybe not, or interbreeds?

Last edited by Dirt; 10/24/24 07:25 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243763
10/24/24 10:59 AM
10/24/24 10:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Alaska and Washington State
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Joined: Jan 2008
Alaska and Washington State
The native cascade fox of Washington, Oregon, and I believe northern California are only found in higher elevation areas, generally from above timberline to about 2000 feet below timberline.
These are essentially the same fox that extend northward into Canada and Alaska. They come in all color phases. In Wahington at least 1/3 of them will be of a color other than red.

I believe that the color phase fox found in Idaho are from escaped or released ranch raised fox from many years ago.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243784
10/24/24 11:20 AM
10/24/24 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
ND
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MJM Offline
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ND
Does there seem to be more fox in ID and WA now then there was in the early 1980's? I worked for Pacific Hide and Fur in Spokane 1980-82 and we did not buy many fox from WA or ID.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243810
10/24/24 11:44 AM
10/24/24 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Alaska and Washington State
There are very few non-native red fox in the lowlands of Washington, just a few remIning pockets. There is a good population of cascade fox, but the antis who now run WDFW have put them on the protected list; no rational reason for doing so.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243815
10/24/24 11:46 AM
10/24/24 11:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
PA
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panaxman Offline
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PA
Back in 2013, I was contacted by a college lady that was doing a genetic study on red foxes. She asked for a small piece of hide from each fox ( rear leg/ankle sample) . I had over 200 that year, and lacked the patience to do the extra work.
I remember Phil B telling me he was contacted and participated in the sampling. I don’t recall hearing what that study ever determined.

Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243906
10/24/24 01:49 PM
10/24/24 01:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
wantage n.j.
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eric space Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
wantage n.j.
Originally there were no red fox in the east only gray foxes. When chased by hounds the gray fox will go in a hole so the early English gentlemen imported red fox from England to do the horse chase with a pack of dogs type fox hunts. English red fox do not carry the recessed gene for the silver fox mutation so there are no silver fox in the eastern US. English reds often have little to no white tip on their tails. Within the last 50 years Canadian red fox which carry the silver fox gene have filtered into areas of New England.
The cross fox is the first step in the silver fox color phase recessive gene. They occur occasionally out of red fox matings provided both parents carry the silver fox gene. A cross fox bred to a red fox with silver fox genes will produce 50% red fox pups, 25% cross fox pups and 25% silver fox pups. A cross fox mated to a cross fox produces 50% silver fox pups ,25% cross fox pups and 25% red fox pups. A silver fox mated to a silver fox will produce almost all silver fox pups. A silver fox mated to a red fox with silver recessive genes produces 50% cross foxes and 50 % red fox. A silver fox (or a cross fox) mated to an English red fox produces all red fox pups of which 25% will now carry the silver fox gene.
Actually a silver fox is more accurately called a black fox as it is the melanistic gene.

Re: Cross/silver fox conversation [Re: Idahotrapguy] #8243924
10/24/24 02:21 PM
10/24/24 02:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
MB
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MB
Good info eric!


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