Hard to believe beaver prices dropped when trappers and fur buyers collected and sold end users a sub par product.

Yep Dirt, as the largest beaver collector in the country I think Groenewold ended up getting quite a bit of feedback from their customers on the felt yield from last year's collection.

Disappointing but expected.

One worthy note, in a conversation with Trent, at Greeley Hat works here in Colorado, he commented that the longer the fiber of the underwool from a beaver, the better the hat keeps its shape and last longer. Meaning northern spring beaver make the best beaver felt hats. I guessing gobs of southern beavers gave hat makers heartburn? As a side note, Greely Hats made all the cowboy hats for the series "Yellowstone" and Trent made Costners hat himself, $$$$.

Well....one day all of us subpar-beaver trappers will be dead and gone so ya'll top end-beaver producers will have that market all to yourselves.

Until then...make room for these southern hatters.....$25 per nose count or $5 per nose count.

I'll bet that even southern beaver felt is 10X better than Belgian rabbit or New Zealand wool! (Well 5X anyway).

You would think as the largest beaver collector in the country, Groenewold would know what his customers wanted. He was the one that opened new routes SE, not the trappers.

Last year they wanted beaver period. Groenewold went where the beaver are.

The dummies finally figured out they need beaver with underfur to make felt hats,lol.
I think its called averaging down,Dirt.

Are all three of those men Groenwolds or is the one with the "work shirt" on not part of the family, at least by last name?

I've heard fur buyers use the "well, retail fur garments selling is slow because of the warm weather so far" mantra before. Do people really believe that?

I guess there may be some bimbos out there who perhaps have never lived in the cold winter city before be affected by warm weather in November not to buy a fur piece that year, but someone who has lived in a northern metro most of their years AND who is actually brave enough wearing fur without worrying about being attacked or spit on, knows that it will get cold enough sometime during the winter to not sweat while wearing fur.

Those "dummies" are probably millionaires from buying and selling fur and wool.

How 'bout you Boco?

… don’t underestimate what people are willing to pay for bocos signature series walrus foreskin mittens uncle swamp

How much were the coons all I heard was him talking bout how much they want

$20 tops dried for the best section XXXL

he dont say prices till he see the fur ny coons this year maybe 8 to 10.00 for very best clear leather. i think he getting back to buying coons hoping trump ends the war over there and the russians get back in the market

Ya are we going to war with them?

You need to get your hands on a computer sometime. When you do, there is a thing on there called a "news feed". Give it a shot sometime if you ever get a computer.

I don't pay attention to news lol

Wuka wuka wuka!

We need to see how the breakdown on prices will be from the very good color 4xxls and up with white leather and then down say 3xxl, average color, average grade and down. Interesting that 2 years ago 2xls were not wanted and now some buyers will take any size with white leather. I don't know the market shifts that have created that market. I am way down on my rat numbers this year and that does not seem to be the worst thing for this season.

Bryce

There will be 1 or 2 coon at $20.00 and all the rest will fall into $ 6.00 and $7.00 price range.

Why would he raise prices? He's getting all he needs for cheap, also I don't think he's even selling coon, but using them to make garments with his partners in China. $8 average with culls out is not worth my time and I have caught a few coon and could again.

Man, that's what I love about trapping. Everything keeps getting more expensive, and the coon stay the same price.

I asked that to GFWs guy here last year, it’s a stupid question really. Like what was said, he’s gotta see the fur. “Somewhere around $2-30”….lol.

I thought GFW made the felt themselves and sold it? Winter, spring and the flats made felt all different prices? One would have to ask Ponch if the green pelts were tossed into graded piles before going through the beaver planer.

I am all for more outlets for fur, so after reading the rest of this go back and read that first statement again.

GFW's pricing is based on what's the lowest they can pay and still have trappers harvest and sell them there fur. If you disagree with that statement look up some of his longer interviews. He comes right out and says sometimes we pay a little more than we want on coon but if we don't we know the trappers will not get out to harvest them. So if they think beaver trappers will harvest all they need at a $10-15 Avg, guess what they are paying. They do the same with all fur pricing and why not? They are running a business, they have changed how they market the fur to the end user and have more cost in the final product they are selling but more potential for profit as well.

GFW buys a racoon for 5 dollars, skins it, fleshes it, ships it to Indonesia to be tanned. The skin is then sent to china, sorted by size/colour and put up for sale. He talks about this process and its brilliant really when you think about it. Lower input costs then tanning in North America, lets them skirt some tariffs, fur/animal restrictions, etc.
The buyer gets an order for xxx number of coats and immediately needs to purchase xxx number of racoon to get them complete in a 3 week window. They can purchase exactly what they need, tanned, sized, sorted by colour and have them delivered in hours/days instead of months. Small producers can buy smaller amounts, without the overhead involved in the raw pelt game. They can also buy all year instead of twice a year at auction.

Not the only ones doing this but are the best known in the North American wild fur trapping industry.

This^^^^

Good description of how this works.

Isn’t groenwald the ones that got stuck with over 200,000 tanned coyotes and had to invest more money making coats that he is trying to sell back to the guys who sold him the coyotes? No business is immune from bad decisions, or bad luck. I remember when guys here put NAFA on a pedestal.

P.S. How is that coon liner coat idea of groeny's comming along?

At least they're making an effort to continue a fur market.

Dirt,
Do you dislike these other market options?

Those are his efforts to create a market for his product. Cheap fur. Not a market for me.

No one is forced to sell to GFW. Other options exist.

Good Description. I refer to it as the Walmarting effect to the fur market. Same as a large % of things marketed in North America. Make it as cheap as possible overseas and sell it here at a low price to masses but where enough profit is produced. Been successful strategy across many brands and dont blame them for doing it and buying fur as cheap as possible. EXCEPT the model will never have trappers on the profit side of the equation over the long run.

regardless of anyway you spin this-trapping never makes any of us any profit-period. Working for $2.00 an hour isn't profit. We haven't been on the profit side of things for a lot of years.As long as we still enjoy the whole process then we can live with it I guess.I just don't go overboard anymore trapping hundreds of critters for peanuts.If we are trying to make profit trapping we are barking up a coyotes butt.

Unfortunately there are very few options . I actually think people in the USA would wear fur with good products and marketing. It’s a matter of going out on a limb and going for it. You have enough Conservative like minded individuals who think animal activists are a joke. Some social influencers advocating fur and selling fur online seems to be a potential business model.

In a somewhat related issue to the above post, lots of companies are shutting down some of their woke poilicies (DEI) and others. Maybe times are changing and fur could become popular again.

I believe a few critters are still reasonably profitable. I know can make more than 2 bucks an hour. Maybe as much as 30 bucks if the critters are there and at curremt mediocre price. My guess is bobcat trappers ard not hurting either.

I grossed $15,000 in about 2.5 months last season. More than I could have made flipping burgers anyway. Could have done better if the weather would have cooperated.

I like your optimism and hope you are right!

I have been trapping for 50 years plus and have never lost money trapping.
Even when I worked a full time job,trapping provides important supplemental income that improves my standard of living not just financially.

Most people do not realize how small a circle the fur market in the US has become. Back when the coyote market was booming, 95+ % ended up in the same pile no matter who bought them. Every coyote at the trapper sales was ending up in the same pile, no matter who bought it and some traded hands two or three times before they got there. I will bet the hatter market was the same way.

If I ever find a way to make profit off buying people's fur i will, i been looking also open to suggestions.

Biggest profit margins in the fur trade are manufacturing and retail.Always been thus.

there was several hatter market people wanting.......till their first production runs were done.... and the % extraction was not there...then they backed out
moving from one medium to mixing into another is tricky business making hats of the various styles

The video clip states how much they ramped up the production of beaver from year to year.

It's that way with a lot of prducts

Very high numbers in the fur industry though.

The most skill and expense too.

If I can't make money on my fur I see no reason to let someone who will make money, buy it cheap. Trappers are their own worst enemy. In what world will a business man pay more for anything than he has too?????????????

Interesting the only species that just about everyone who traps has in numbers is beaver,

Supply and demand at it's finest in a capitalism system.

Prices advanvced because of a demand for felt, trappers responded by trapping beaver the supply is now greater than the market.

Prices follow suit.

Would sure have been nice if it had lasted longer but just show you how shallow the fur market is right now.

Russian ruble is trading at 1 cent to the US dollar.

Hatter trade is always there its the supply that goes up and down.

Sell early and often.

To make a million in the fur buying skin game, start by investing five million !!!

Walleyed, if Groney is making 20% what would golden triangle coons average?

Does it really matter what the Russian currency is trading at against the USD if the U.S. and Canadian governments forbid (sanction) trading with the Rus...?

Forty years ago during a slump in the market, Sandy Sandman a Hudson’s Bay ranch fur rep. Came to a KMMBA meeting and spoke of good demand in cheap mink (below production cost) maybe he was right. And groeny is filling the niche.

Something needs to change and probably has. The goal/era of using animals strictly for recreation has arrived. It’s a sign of the times.

I get what you're saying here Boco-you can spin it anyway you please-I've been in it as long as you have. Trapping fur isn't a money making business these days-it costs too much to catch things for the raw return=period. The time spent out trapping is priceless yes I will agree with that.The only way I see fur trappers making money these days is through ADC work-trapping doesn't make you profit to sell your fur raw to someone. If you can process your skins yourself and make things out of them yourself-yes you can profit-but not by just selling raw fur/hours etc..there is no way that make sense at todays prices.

It definitely matters to the fur trade what the value of the ruble is.

Everybody buys to sell into that market, Greece, Turkey, and China buy fur to sell into that market.

Wonder why there is no real raccoon, muskrat market?

Once it is dressed and finished into hats and garments in each country it is sold into that russia market.

I think you're old enough to have seen this before

Per capita, Ukraine buys more fur than Russia so that is another 40-50 million people that are not buying much fur the last 3 years or so either.

Bryce

Been awhile since the Russian ruble card has been played

That whole situation is going to be drastically different in a few months

I sure hate to continue to be a part of selling sub-par pelts into you northern trapper's fur market and depressing it more and faster than it should be.

NOT!

Grading goes out the window when markets get hot. That ussually doesn't end well.

Sure hope so.

As long as the governments don't ask for "End User Certificates" from our fur buyers that deal with RU....LOL

You guys reliese there is only one other companion.
And they only except dry fur.
500 for a coat made in china......nooo

So, companies (Greek) from basically a vassal state to the U.S. or at least to NATO/EU, is openly defying US/EU sanctions against the Rus? If so, I guess sanctions against the bad guys of the world only count if your a U.S. or Canadian company. Last I saw, 25% of the countries and 33% of the global population are under some sort of U.S. sanctions (and I presume Canada mostly goes along with the same list).

Another point to remember is that the Rus have been trying to get out of any USD or Euro-based debt or obligations since 2022. They are betting on BRICS and its expanding membership (and ways around Western sanctions through those countries) to work global financial deals. How else have the Russians (only a 150 million people) been able to transition to a war economy AND keep consumer goods relatively stable if the Western sanctions were such a crippling weapon...?

One last thing, you do know that the Rus shot a modified ICBM (removed one of the flight sections to make it a IRBM) with a mirv'ed kinetic warhead bus that hit a large Ukie military factory (many of the workshops multiple sub-basement floors down) going Mach 10 on impact in the middle the country, correct? The U.S. Space Force's "Rods of God" isn't the only weapon now out there using terminal kinetic energy to do potential serious localized damage. And the Rus don't have to put their non-explosive hypersonic kinetic weapons onto a satellite platform.



Old data Bryce, probably 2014 or before that Ukie land had 45 million people. Between the willing exodus since 2014 and especially in 2022 before Z man started to close the borders to anyone trying to leave the country, and the people now under Russian control in the south and southeast parts of old Ukraine SSR (and most of those don't have a problem with it), and military causalities that the Ukies have taken (go find satellite videos of the massively expanding cemeteries on the edges of some of Ukraine's largest cities still under the Kiev government control), Ukraine's population under Z man's control is probably 20 million or less (those are numbers I've seen for a good while now).

Yeah, they're probably out the end-user fur market for a long time to come.

Below is the data I was using.

37,937,821
The current population of Ukraine in 2024 is 37,937,821, a 3.25% increase from 2023. The population of Ukraine in 2023 was 36,744,634, a 7.45% decline from 2022. The population of Ukraine in 2022 was 39,701,739, a 8.8% decline from 2021. The population of Ukraine in 2021 was 43,531,422, a 0.86% decline from 2020.

Sorry Bryce, you need to stop drinking the Kool Aid. I know you being a good older man (I think in your later 70s, correct?) you probably believe most of what you been fed by the western corporate media and the "government" but those numbers are a joke.

I have no "security clearances" but the if the iies, pure cronyism, and just pure fantasy I see in my little fairly "benevolent" part of the government are true, what the deep state and others more "kinetically" involved in the geopolitical nonsense try to pass as facts are pretty frightening.

But whatever, I still respect you as an American man because I think you are basically a righteous dude. And we can agree to disagree.

Someday, we''ll get our country back. Maybe.

Starting sets tomorrow. Can’t wait. 45 years of this and Covid was only year I couldn’t sell anything. I’ll take low over zero any day. Also pretty low competition when market is low. Totally OK by me. Thank you everyone who sits it out on sidelines waiting for higher markets. Going to be fun again and looking forward to the solitude and higher animal populations again this winter. Can’t wait.
Jim

I like it Jim!
Tight chains buddy!

I started running pretty hard last week. Coons are looking great, and plenty of them. I'm covering parts of 3 counties and have run into two other trappers. Stopped and had a pleasant conversation with one, the other I haven't met but have seen his sets. I'm having a lot of fun without much thought to the financial side of things. I figure I better trap while I can; never know when a season may be your last!

I didn’t get much for my fall beavers I caught coon trapping. $18 for blankets and $12 for the xl

Swampwolf may be doing all he can to ruin your yankee beaver pelt peddling market but not me, ive kept several hundred out of the pipe line, doing my part to save your once in every 200 years beaver market, lol.

As for the ruble, if it isn't that it's the cheap oil price's, if they are below 70 bucks a barrel Russia can't afford fur, remember? Ive hear all sort of reason's but bottom line is if every JC Penny, etc type store (what few are left) had jackets/shirts with actual fur cuffs and collars as well as fur slippers and accessories galore everywhere instead of all the fake fur crap you see ya might have a fur market back!

Don't want to get attacked for wearing a fur coat down the street? No problem, start dying pelts the color of leopard print since that seems to be a popular color right now, could dye all sorts of hip colors the young girls like out of our low grade coat coon and southerner's would once again have a coon market. But it's easier to just make stuff out of crappy synthetic's and call it good.

In the meantime beat ol Groney to death for making a dollar, imagine his wool sales is what keeps the bills paid around there, not the 2 dollar 'rats he buys ya'll think should be worth 20, lol.

I doubt that wool sales helps them much. Have you seen what wool prices are these days? Pretty certain that New Zealand and Australia ruint that market long ago.

I just got my first pair of blended wool socks for Christmas this year, wore them last week and feet never got cold in the hipboots, isn't that amazing? lol. Im 59 years old and just discovered this! lol

But no ive not seen wool price's but imagine he's moving ALOT of it. Side note, anyone paying attention to ranch mink? Not seeing those talked about anywhere, how many MILLIONS are no longer produced due to al that covid crap shutting down ranch's all over?

Lack of product means people look for other products to use, thus synthetic fur which is more reliable to come by and you don't get the public's adverse reaction from wearing it.

Connect all the dots it's not hard to see WHY there isn't a fur market anymore and probably never will be again.

Around here sheep farmers just compost their wool. Doesn't pay enough to even be worth shipping it. Kind of like some other natural fibers we trappers might be thinking of.

Whats the point of raising sheep then? I see more sheep here in the south being raised now than ive ever seen in my lifetime, must be money in them somewhere. Lamb chops i guess but only time i ate sheep it was awful and i won't ever eat it again.

It's 100% meat market. Millions of them in Oregon too.

(Can't be any worse eatin' than possum can they?....and we all know southerners adore possum. I learned that from watching the Beverly Hillbillies.)

Lots worse! Possum taste alot like pork, pretty good eating the one and only time i had it.

Maybe I haven’t looked around much, but have you found a synthetic fur that looks and feels like the real deal? Every “fur” ruff I’ve seen looks a bit off but feels terrible! Some want fur for a real reason, warm, and the feel, looks are sometimes 3rd. Like you say though, they’ll have to turn to something to fill the void. CG just completely got away from any fur look, but there’s other high end expensive manufacturers that are proud to advertise it.

There’s an organization here that rents/ leases sheep to control grass growth in large solar installations. Buck in everything!

Shakeyjake, right, that fake fur feels like crap BUT customer's NEVER get to feel or see real fur! I had Shelly a red fox coat made some years ago and you should see the reaction of her friends when she wear's it, it's the first time they ever saw a fur coat and felt it in person! All of them want to sit and 'pet' it, lol. Make the stuff available to at least see and feel and i bet you there would be a huge demand for fur again.

How much does a badger usually fetch?

Yes

That makes sense. Just like Egyptian cotton is some of the World's finest......Because of the long length of the fibers. And yes, Beaver in the Spring will have the longest, most dense pelts. But then again, some Spring Beavers might have pelt damage from Fighting? But that shouldn't matter to a pelt that's going to be "sheared" and NOT used in a garment, other than a Felt hat? But your Fur Buyer might not "mention" that little Fact to you when he's "docking" your pelts for "damage"? LOL.

Not at $2.00 a rat?

I averaged $32.50 for a little over 80 coons back in the mid 80's. $4.00 dollar rats all day. $50.00 bucks for an extra-large, big, black Mink. Unskinned! LOL. And we cried over $1.50 a gallon of petrol. $32.00 for a dozen Victor 1 1/2 double coil spring traps, still greasy and in the box. All I can do is shake my head.

Maybe not $20 on the rats, but $4.00 wouldn't be so bad. I sold Muskrats for $4.25 a piece in 1974 and Russ Cumberland over in Owatonna, MN. (RIP) at Cumberland's Northwest Trappers Supply gave me a $50 dollar bill one Saturday morning for an unskinned, big, black, buck mink that I trapped down in the creek that ran through my hometown. (Russel stuck that Mink in his front trouser pocket along with his coins, and his Old Trapper "Muskrat" jackknife, and that was that. LOL. $50.00 was a lot of money for a 14-year-old boy in 1974! That wouldn't purchase a half a bag of groceries at your local supermarket today?

In 74 a hundred dollar bill would fill the bed of a half ton pickup with groceries

Wait. Maybe I missed this conversation. Definitely must be out of the loop but did he say? DONT do the “money cut” anymore On raccoon?🤔

I don't think Groney has ever been a fan of the money cut

The Muslims go to sheep or goat farm and pick out an animal or more than one. The farm has an out of the way, out of sight, area where the animals are taken. The Muslim Imam kills the animals with a knife according to the rules of the Koran. That way the Muslims know they have properly killed meat to eat. Farmer makes more on Muslim sheep or goat than they make if they send them off to an auction. The more Muslims we have coming into the US the more sheep and goats will be needed to satisfy the demand for Muslim killed meat.

And we should raise more sheep and goats to keep more Muslims coming to America? Wow - seems like a good time to cut back production. What does this have to do with fur prices?

I was wondering the same thing