Running the idea of running some snares and have never snared much before. Only thing I've ever snared is beaver.
Looking to go after fox, cats, and coons, if coyotes come in I'd take them.
I plan to run bait stations and want animals expired as fast as possible with as little disturbance to surrounding area as possible. Also want to run all the same equipment to streamline things.
Which is the better one to use? Cost isn't a factor.

Never used RAM'S before but understand if your not careful, they can go off unexpectedly and break your jaw. Don't know if that's true or not but they are much heavier than kill springs.

Pretty much no one uses the Rams except in Canada, where in parts of it they are pretty much required to. They are expensive, heavy, bulky and much harder to blend than a plain snare. Also as 20scout says, you must be careful setting them, and they are very lethal on everything, including nontargets. On the plus side they are very lethal on target animals and the snares with no locks are mere pennies to replace and don't always need replaced. Regular snares, with or without kill springs are easy to blend, light and compact, you can carry dozens of them with you in one trip walking in, are cheap, easily replaced and can be made lethal or nonlethal. They will usually have more disturbance of the set than a Ram.

Not sure how BADs or deer stops would work on a Ram if you are required to use them. Unsure on Minnesotas laws in that respect.

If you have the option to not use Ram’s, don’t.

If I had a hundred of the rams I’d keep using them, but I’ve only got 20 or so. Switched over to Lightsout and never looking back. Hopefully next year we can use em for wolf too. There’s enough bloody pics of split lips and teeth missing or worse on social media. They’re safe, just always stay out of the bit zone if the safety’s off, usually happens when you’re almost ready to walk away and just want to make a final adjustment. With the little springs, it pays to be set up with a bench swager, super easy to remake them how you want. You can carry a bunch in your pocket, instead of hauling 30 rams around.


Jordan, has MTA done anything for you lately?…..lol

"Pretty much" I have run Rams here in the U.S. since 2001 and as many as 50 at one time. Trigger set up is poor for areas where you may catch smaller species in the coyote size BUT I designed a better lighter trigger. It took about 5 years with my two sons as my worst critics LOL...Finally hit on it when I started catching pheasants in trails with it and they had to admit I had an all around kill snare. I have since caught coyotes, rabbits, skunks, badgers, opossums, lots of coons, fox, bobcats, dogs, cats, pheasants and other bird types, squirrels, deer, and beaver with this trigger on my Rams. There are a few of us here that use Rams in killing situations but they don't use my trigger. My game cam showed where coyotes were dead or incapacitated in 2 minutes or less (sometimes as short as 15 seconds) with a Ram. Can't say that about the hundreds of kill spring regular snares I have set/used. O'Gorman talked Senneker into designing a small version kill snare with the Ram being the model as he didn't like the bulk (and costs) but again the trigger on the Senneker takes a lot of pull to release the spring and the spring throw distance is very short. A lot of efficiency of the kill spring, in small snares, depends on a/the force needed to activate (release) the spring. Not so with a gentler trigger like mine (and I'm sure someone in Canada has developed a better spring trigger than the original one too). Rams are much, much better for killing a coyote for me but in the big open cattle/game trails, the smaller less expensive Senneker and other spring type snares will work for me. Generally its the brush and surrounding cover "entanglement" that does the coyote in when the regular snare shortens the anchor distance. This makes a pretty big "mess" of the catch site. Note: you need no lock with the Rams and I use the stake to support the Ram so no tree or wire support for the snare is needed. Because you have a very short death time after the Ram is triggered it is imperative to only use it in lethal situations as stated above. A second, added safety latch is standard equipment to protect the clumsy trappers like me!. I have had only 3 live animals in the hundreds of catches I have made with the Rams. Each being a raccoon that was hip caught and we have a 24 hr check regulation no matter what type of land trap here. That has been some (but not all) of my experience with the two types of snares you referred to. So "Pretty much" some of us older guys still have a tip or two in our pockets LOL.................the (always trying new stuff) ....mike

I love rams. I was hesitant to use them at first, but I personally would never go back. Superfast to set, can be set in such a wide variety of setups quickly, easy to blend in to the surroundings, and they kill in a hurry and seldomly leave a catch circle. I've walked up on countless dead yotes in the snow that didn't even appear to have struggled but instead just lay there dead on the trail.

If I were having to lug stuff around on foot, I'd not like them but if you're using a truck , atv, or snowmobile and toboggan, their size isn't an issue.

Can you post your modified trigger?
What size RAM do you suggest?

Thought I’d resurrect this thread from the dead as I’ve been picking off some yotes on deep snow trails that cross the road. Picked this one up today and reset right there as even in the snow there was little sign of a struggle. The ram just snuffed it out in a hurry. It’s pretty open timber where I got him, just stuck the ram in the snow and it blends in just like a piece of brush growing from the ground. Stick a couple hunks of grass nearby to the loop and they vanish.

A quality snare that's 8' long with a good lock and kill spring will give you the same results as the picture above .

Another way to look at the comparison is a person can pack 4 dozen snares at one time , let's see you pack 4 dozen arm's away from the pickup or snowmobile to set out a snare line .

If you read my previous post you will see that I stated earlier in the thread in a previous post that rams were not convenient when it came to having to lug a bunch on foot.

Now, I’m curious about the same results with a kill spring and a good lock, maybe the result would be the same but most of the pictures I view on here and other places where trappers post, the catch circle of a snared coyote looks like a murder scene. Lol

Great educational post and just more "good information" for states like mine that DO NOT allow snares or even cable restraints on land.

In my opinion, a good lock and kill spring with plenty of cable is more than enough even with no entanglement.

The latter part of that is mostly do to poor lock choices or state rules disallowing good locks.

Great pics Turd, thanks for sharing.

rvsask , if you were to attend a trappers convention where I've got a booth set up you'd notice I'd have close to 500 dozen snares or more offered to sell and quite a few snare supports and misc other snareing supplies .

My response wasn't aimed directly at you but more of a general statement to educate and give a person more food for thought , many of the folks who use the snares I make have been very happy with the quick dispatch of the target animal when caught with little or no catch circle even without entanglement and in some case's the snare cable isn't bent up twisted or kinked up severely to make removing it after the catch quicker , then the used snare can be used for a extension if needed .

I've had some health issues that have kept me from running my own snare line like I did while I lived in Southeastern Montana I'd run between 300 - 400 snares a season with many catches similar to the pictures that Turd Ferguson had posted and numerous others who use the snares I make will tell you the same thing .

Not every catch will be picture perfect due to bur's in the fur or matted or the snare lower on the neck of the target animal so there's a slight chance of a catch circle if so more the snare a bit further up or down the trail and reset it .
There's always variables in what ever you do and running a snare or trap line is no different , I've spent a great deal of time to educate folks about how well snares can add to make a successful fur season even better or to help control predators from preying on livestock .

Turd's picture are to note. The coyote has an open run to hit that snare end and produce enough "pull" to release the small kill spring (F=ma) . If you are in tight quarters where a coyote gets a short tug and then wraps on a plum bush or wraps on a small tree the Force needed to release the trigger can't be applied quickly (sometimes not at all for me) ....... Have been lucky enough to witness 2 coyotes I jumped hit a smaller kill spring snare (like a Senneker) full bore and after the 'summersault' he was laying in a daze and the spring had tightened. He was on his last breaths and possibly would have expired in 3-5 minutes. Likewise I have had dozens of coyotes caught in these types and even a few Sennekers that tore the catch site and they had not applied enough Force to actively release the spring due to a confined escape and short entanglement. In my case, these coyotes needed that greater de-acceleration force to pop (trigger) the spring loose or to tighten the regular spring farther against their windpipe. Not so with a Ram and a lighter trigger (both standard Rams trigger and the smaller kill springs need the/more animal force to release their compressed spring). That is why I set out to design a lighter trigger trip on the Ram. For anyone interested my tip: I did this to set coyote trails that crossed our county roads where I could check them on my way to work in the early morning. In this farm country with section line roads, the coyotes will move regularly where they want close to human activity at night (no big open spaces like Turd's pictures). Never lost a coyote or trap (Ram) all the years I did this location and headed to work with 2-3 coyotes in tow many mornings.Checked other sets along the roads on my way home in the evening with an additional 1-2 stone cold dead coyotes that were laying w/i 30 - 50ft of the gravel. No bouncing or live coyote for traffic "gawkers" to see. Ram's in plum brush sets just as lethal with no chewings. So if you have the space to have your capture site coyote get a run I agree that death is fairly quick with the smaller spring snares but a lot of trappers don't have those places to set and still need/want to harvest coyotes. Lots of other examples but this is enough from " My side of the fence" for now............................. the mike

The snares I make and have used all have the small compression coil springs , I've got friends who use and like Marty's Canadian snares and yes I've made a few dozen of them . So I have no personal experience with them , however I e caught more coyotes in a wide variety of set locations from the wide open grass lands to thick entanglement to fence crawl unders , each had a high dispatch rate with a limited visible catch circle , in plum thickets or cedar patches .

There are different spring poundage 25 or 50 pound coil springs for most applications the 25 lb springs are more than adequate for most predators up to wolves where some prefer the 50 lb coil springs .

Alan and wife, thank you both for contributing to this thread.

Alan, you clearly know something about snaring, that is easy to see based on your responses. I’ve tried some kill spring snares in the past, they killed, but not nearly as quickly as the RAM. Maybe that was user error, maybe not. Obviously I never made them, I just bought some, I’m open to new ideas. I’ve just come to the conclusion that most guys snaring coyotes are not using devices that get the job done in a hurry as most photos people share definitely show a serious catch circle. You’ve proven that to not always be the case.

Wife, our situation is very similar. I too am simply snaring on trails crossing the road between home and work. I too want a stone dead coyote in a ram, 25 feet from road as opposed to one that is alive abs tangled up in the brush as you described. I also deal with heavy moose sign near those roads this time of year. When the snow piles up they seem to want to be near the roads. I can only guess it’s because increased light there in the summer provides more growth of shrubs and they’re there now to browse on that. Any way, I definitely have the odd moose walk through the ram. It likely hurts their leg a bit but they bust that breakaway ram snare real easy and carry on their way.

Everyone has different circumstances and accordingly approach things in different ways. I know if i locate brand new trail to set on, I can have a ram anchored to a tree and set and be back in my truck in a minute or so and that’s important for me as well.

Happy Snaring!!

Thank you for the kind words rvsask , yes I've been dealing with harvesting predators a long time now ha ha
My experience is with snares or non ram snares the difference is considerably like comparing a .222 Remington to a .30-06 they both have there place in a fur harvesters tool box , all the above mentioned will dispatch predators quickly and humanly which is important .

I’m sold on this set up for the time being

TF, what style of lock are you running in the above picture? I’ve been bouncing back and forth for a few years now….lol

Turd, are those teethed cams?

Those are the senneker shock lock…been using them for two years now and they are the best lock I’ve ever used. Only two places I know that have them are Schmitt and from Marty directly.
https://schmittent.com/product/shock-lock-5-64-senneker/

My two cents

I’ve used the rams for many,many years and caught thousands of coyotes with them. I’ve had chew outs on my rams but I can count them all on 1 hand. Rams are the ultimate snare for a quick dispatch. They are a pain carrying big numbers around but I can usually carry them in the truck to set them out at the beginning of the season. So it’s not a big deal. On the skidoo I can usually hall 3 dozen at a time when time when I’m setting. I can set rams in the open ,brush or big timber with no problems. Mostly trap around crop land and big bush so not a lot of pastures. Have very few problems with knockdowns. If a moose or deer happen to walk by the snare moves out of the way and snaps back into place after they clear. If one happens to get caught the breakaway works great. I’ve hung rams upside down, between grain bins, farm machinery and all kinds of strange places. You have to be careful setting them because they can be dangerous… but like anything else you learn to set them with no problems. Do I get refusals ? Absolutely but don’t worry much because another coyote will come through and get caught. Anybody that hasn’t had refusals hasn’t trapped much. I can say I have spots where I’ve set for 20 years plus and have caught at least 50 coyotes and am still setting in that same spot.

Senneker snares I have used quite a bit on a buddies line. I’ve built 100s of them for people. They are a very good set up providing they are set properly. I’ve seen a lot of good with them,some bad and a few ugly. People can post pictures of laid out coyotes with them and that’s when they work great. I know (hope) people don’t post the not so go pictures on any website because I’ve seen way to many. Anybody that’s trapped long enough knows what I’m talking about. I’ll leave it at that.

Where I trap at home we can only use rams. If I had a choice I would choose rams but it would be nice to have a few sennekers in my pocket when I’m out to set in certain spots.

Like anything else use what works best for you.

Turd that’s a nice setup and some great pictures. That’s the kind of pictures I like to see. Most of my coyotes look like a twisted up mess because they are mostly all frozen

Alan do you know the dates for Livingston this year?

Not yet Les but when I hear something you'll be the first to know .

The Wyoming Trappers convention is the first weekend in June at Basin Wyo if you're interested in another trip to the states .

As for snare locks the death blow then wedge locks are very popular the bottom line is it's a Ford, Chevy or Dodge or which girl is the prettiest on snare locks and cable combinations .

TTT

Saskbone and other Sask trappers, what did you think of the FIC presentation at the Sask Convention? It was almost like a sales pitch with the ugly videos of free snares and rams. I’ve had poor catches with the little systems too, it’s all about set up. I wonder if Manitoba or Saskatchewan would ever ban the Ram? I know that our RTL guys will be switching over to the Senneker or Lights out system in a season or two, I can’t recall when it was coming into effect for them. They’ve always been able to use whatever they wanted.
I love the Lightsout system but I ain’t selling my rams, they got their place.
My best catch in a Lightsout was a wolf wandering into one in a swamp. We just got a 6” dump of snow and couldn’t see the snare. I thought a deer knocked it over as it’s happened at this spot twice before and there was zero disturbance in the cattails. Lo and behold there’s an outline of a nice grey under the snow. High neck catch with spring at about 2 o’clock. It must’ve got the arteries good and it was “lightsout” within seconds….lol. Several coyotes were the same result, very little mess. I love em just because everything goes into a little snare bag, a roll of #9 wire in a pocket or a few stands in the other hand. I left some of my 9 wire supports out in the bush this year, some spots are just gold every year.

At your convention, someone brought up the debate of storing with springs compressed or not. My wife had to leave cuz she was going to burst out laughing. Spring guys…… I piped up says my spring guy said this, Marty’s spring guy said this, but Dave’s spring guy said this. Everyone has a spring guy…..lol

[quote=Turd Furgeson]I’m sold on this set up for the time being




What poundage breakaway S hook are you using. I have a ton of deer and need to add a good breakaway before I do trail sets.

That’s a 285 lber from fnt…they open up most of the time on deer. Now if you want a breakaway that will open up for all deer and even some coyotes, look at the senneker 265 haha. I do not recommend it, as it will cost you some coyotes.

Those weights vary a fair bit from the numbers. Marty said the manufacture takes an average but can’t guarantee an exact number for every one.

We have some big coyotes in my area. I catch 2 or 3 between 45 to 50 often. Do you think the 285 would hold them or should I go 300? I hear someone makes a 300.

I would stick with the 285s. I think they actually open at a higher poundage than advertised.

Here’s a little more info on Marty’s BADs…..

“ The Senneker-Elite line of BADs were broke tested in North Dakota in 2015 and again in 2022 at Alberta Innovates and Technology Futures for the Fur Institute of Canada. The 2022 Canadian results were consistent with the results obtained from North Dakota in 2015. The following results are based upon the averages of testing from both jurisdictions.

Senneker- Elite #265 - opens at 165 lbs*

Senneker-Elite #385 - opens at 240 lbs*

Senneker-Elite #645 - opens at 350 lbs* (not tested in Canada)

Senneker-Elite #750 - opens at 440 lbs*

Senneker-Elite #1000 - opens at 600 lbs* (not tested in North Dakota)

* Canadian Coyote Company Ltd does not guarantee the results of the forementioned tests. The buyer/user of this products does so at his/her/it's own risk and accepts full responsibility for any/all circumstances arising from use of these devices. “

I bought a half dozen RAMs pre 2000 before Washington lost snares, footholds and body grips. I used them primarily for beaver ADC work. They were highly effective and appeared to be immediately lethal. I used them some on coyotes but only where I was pretty certain deer weren’t going to be an issue. Those opportunities were slim. The few coyotes I did catch were dead quick enough to reuse the set location. Same with the beaver.

TTT for those who haven't read through it all .

Anyone have trouble with these ram springs breaking just above the coil while they are set?

I have 4-5 dozen of them, 3 different generations of them, and half or more of them are laying in a scrap metal pile broken.

I had one break on the way home after I bought it, another on broke while set over a -40 degree night. Both were new generation…….and I don’t run very many of them. I’m not buying anymore. The Lights Out or Sennekers are my go to, but the rams still have their place.

I watched Senneker BADs being tested in ND. The S Hook was hanging up in the small cam lock even when open, due to the hole in the lock and the S hook being close to the same diameter. Some would break the lock rather then the S hook pulling out. I do not know what J hook or lock it was at this point. I new used any Senneker parts or snares.

Was Marty involved with the testing?
I seen set ups where guys were putting them together wrong and we’re having troubles.

At that time Marty said he had no way to test them. They were going off what the supplier said. He was called when they were going up twice plus what they were rated at. Marty was not in ND during that testing. Tell me how you put a S hook in a lock wrong?

Closing the S hook wrong can screw things up. Most already know this, but the odd guy just crunches it shut with what ever tool he’s got in his hand.
Marty’s supplier couldn’t give him a set number for his s hooks, they all varied so that number is a ball park figure. This has been discussed thoroughly in another thread somewhere.
We’re these tests done on his or Lightsout snare systems?

The tests were done with his S hooks and locks. I don't know what fancy name he has for them. I have never used any of his stuff. When a S hook busts the lock, there is a problem. The problem was the S hook fit to tight in the lock hole.

He’s got his own Senneker Shock Locks and a few others, BADs from his supplier and some from The Snare Shop. The heavier BADs are tighter in my locks which are Lightsout or a few Bridgers with teeth, but still loose enough to slip some 28G wire through it. I use my swager to get good control of the squish when closing the S hook (BAD). It’d be tough to get it right without one. The BADs function is also effected by the size of magnum kill springs, this is where he recommends the smaller breakaway device.
About 80% of my snares are Lightsout, but my fastest 80lb wolf kill was with a smaller Senneker Stinger.
Are these ND tests documented somewhere, or who & how were they done?

The tests were done by Wildlife Services. They were testing BADS for their own use and knowledge. WS built the hydraulic test machine for the ND Game and Fish and their own use. Up until then there was no where you could send snares to test them. It was documented at the time, but I have no idea if they still have it. They were not testing locks and S hooks for Senneker. I know they called him and told him what they saw happening. From what I remember he did not seem overly concerned from what they said. The S hook would be almost 100% straight and still be stuck in the lock. For it to come out something had to give other then the S hook. It was busting a piece out of the lock at the hole the S hook goes through. It seems like up over 600lbs.

I’ve always had issue with straight pull testing protocols.

Animals don’t just lean on it till something gives or they expire.

They jerk, pop and snap, introduce slack into the system than run at it again. Etc etc


Solidly leaning on it can cause components to bind.

NDs machine would sometimes cause the cam arm on an Amberg lock to completely straighten out before something gave. 20+ years of using those locks and I never once saw that happen in field use.

Tells me there’s a flaw in that test design.

That makes sense, could see that happening with the tighter fitting BADs. Marty’s Shock Locks have bigger more oval holes but have never tried them. I still use mostly Corey’s Lightsout system. I mainly like the trigger on the spring itself, and they seem to handle the bigger cable well.

Boone, I agree it is not the best. But at least there is something now. It used to be they said it could not be over 350 pound break away and there was no standard on how to test it. Now at least that is spelled out. If you call most the people have BAD's made, most of them have never tested any. They just go by what they are told and who knows if the guy making them has ever tested any.
Shakeyjake Does Canada have max break away weights? ND is 350 pounds. I would guess that Canadas is higher, due to wolves.

Here’s FICs page, Manitoba usually follows it but not sure about other provinces or Territories.

Here’s the page from our trapping regulations. Keep in mind that this is for fox/coyote. The wolves that wandered into my coyote sets didn’t know it. These snare systems should be good to go for wolves here this coming season so I’ll soon see what our BAD limits will be.

Any info on the BAD's usage on the coyote #2 Rams?...............the mike

I was always under the impression that the breakaways would release / breakaway from the cable and not the lock. Not sure how the tests were done but it would be interesting to see. I remember Marty saying he got a bad bunch of lightning locks from his manufacturer that were made poorly and would break on the eye hole of the lock. That was a few years ago. Marty has a few videos on how to crimp the breakaways properly. If I remember correctly Marty’s s hooks had one side bigger than the other but I might be wrong.


I know the breakaways on my power rams almost always come apart off the main cable and not on the end of the cable where there’s a small attachment loop and ferrel. Most times when an moose , elk,deer etc walk through they don’t even wreck the loop but if they happen to spring the ram it’s one hard pull and their gone