Glad we got that figured out, but my remaining question would be was the 4 gospel writers all witnesses enough to give an account or not?

Luke never claimed to be a witness. Just read the first 4 verses of the gospel of Luke.
None of the apostles witnessed the birth of Jesus. But they wrote about it.
This doesn't mean it didn't happen. The prophets didn't witness future events that they prophesied.
They were killed. This doesn't mean they were not inspired.

https://robertcliftonrobinson.com/2...r-gospels-as-valid-eyewitness-testimony/

It wasn't my intent to go off on this hiatus about witnesses, but I did. Perhaps the example of a wreck was not a good one. Since this thread is about creation and science I guess maybe it wasn't that bad of a turn, lol. For almost 50 years I have considered the gospels as witnesses. Maybe a communication gap, I don't know?

Here is a small snippet from the above article.

According to these guidelines, the four Gospels meet the necessary requirements of the “Ancient documents” hearsay exception.[16] In examination of the credibility for the witnesses as the authors of the four Gospels, the Federal Rules of Evidence also finds that these witnesses are reliable.[17] When we investigate the content and context of the testimony given by the four Gospel writers and assess the reliability and credentials of these authors, we find them to be credible witnesses, according to the Federal Rules of Evidence.[18]

Mud daubers start as an egg, hatch into a larva, eat the stored, paralyzed spiders or insects, growing rapidly in their protective mud shelter, metamorph into a pupa, pupate and break free of their home as an adult wasp.

Keith

Yotetrapper30, yes, I am referring to the Fall of man. When Adam ate the fruit.

He declined my request for a debate, but he did say he would give some advice during the debate. I am currently doing a lot of research to do just that!

I still haven’t gotten a good answer about where the material that started the earths evolution came from. Maybe White could give me an answer…

Also, Angela, don’t worry about picking on me. I was the one who started this debate, so I asked for it all! Just ask a question and I’ll do my best to answer it.

Well you may find this hard to believe but there was no matter prior to.........for lack of a better term......The Big Bang.

There were photons which do not have mass........consequently are not considered matter.

Matter can be formed by the collision of photons at high speed. We have proven that thousands of times by colliding ionized gold in super-colliders. The photons that form an ionized cloud or halo around the atoms of gold are accelerated towards each other inside the collider. When the two 'halos" collide, energy is released and new matter is formed. Those new particles can be observed and identified as well as measured.

https://interestingengineering.com/science/us-collider-enters-25th-run

Remember the laws of conservation of matter & energy. When we burn gasoline in our trucks or wood in our stoves.......we are converting one form of matter into a different form....... energy. But no energy is lost ...the FORM of the energy is changed.......either from matter to energy, or from energy to matter.

So the matter that we see today in the universe did not exist prior to the formation of stars (they were/are gas...not solid matter as we see around us) and their subsequent destruction as supernovae. That is when the first matter actually took form . The "new" universe was far to hot to allow the formation of atoms

It is still happening in the universe today. We can witness the birth of stars and their deaths.

One more time I will encourage you to get and watch that video series I mentioned before on cosmology.

This one :

https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/cosmology-the-history-and-nature-of-our-universe

Hopefully, you will make the effort if you are sincerely looking for answers and information on a subject that is both interesting and informative.

This is interest.
I didn't know that we had ever witnessed the formation of stars.
Now I can dig the gold particles turning to matter.
( the streets in heaven will be paved with the stuff.

This is a talk not a debate a debate has two opposing view points

I think the opposing view points are the age of existence

..but that’s just me


…. What’s your favorite movie Rex?

… mine is the greatest of all time

pale rider

… that’s a good one …. In fact I think Clint Eastwood created the heavens and the earth

So, White, where did the ions come from? In the illustration you gave to Iona of gold were already gold, so colliding them at high speeds seems logical to get gold out of it. In that illustration, no new material was formed.

Dorn it there Husky, your making to much sense now.
Isn't Cosmology somthing like a pedicure?

They say that the heavier elements came from exploding stars. The energy of the explosion creates heavy elements from the lighter ones, and in the resulting stardust, new stars and planets are formed that contain heavier elements.

In the primordial universe, the first stars were formed of hydrogen, helium, and I think a little bit of helium, but the heavier elements didn't exist until those first stars exploded.

So then the exploding stars were the big bang.

No, during the time shortly after the Big Bang, the universe consisted of a hot, dense plasma of particles. The universe is called opaque during this time, as no light was able to propagate over long distances. Once the universe expanded and cooled enough, about 380,000 years after the Big Bang, electrons and protons were able to combine to form the first atoms and produce the first light (photons) that was able to propagate freely, which is where the cosmic microwave background radiation comes from. This is the furthest back in the universe we will ever be able to "see" with our telescopes, because there's no light to see from before then.

Then eventually, these atoms were attracted to each other under the influence of gravity and were able to accumulate into the first stars. There was a lot that happened in our universe before those first stars exploded.

Again, where did the materials that caused the Big Bang come from??

Science does not tell us and may never tell us. I'm a believer, so I don't have a problem with the prime mover being God.