Re: Debate
[Re: NorthwesternYote]
#8402050
05/12/25 02:48 AM
05/12/25 02:48 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
|
Again, where did the materials that caused the Big Bang come from?? Science does not tell us and may never tell us. I'm a believer, so I don't have a problem with the prime mover being God. They will never tell us because there’s no logical way for those first materials to form. Evolution always starts with something, but to go from nothing to something is impossible.
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: NorthwesternYote]
#8402054
05/12/25 04:19 AM
05/12/25 04:19 AM
|
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Foxpaw
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
|
Again, where did the materials that caused the Big Bang come from?? Science does not tell us and may never tell us. I'm a believer, so I don't have a problem with the prime mover being God. Plato reasoned that with 2nd and 3rd causes there had to be a 1st cause (mover). Knowing there is a first mover then getting to know that mover is a great quest. I think one step of that phase is described pretty good using Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Many times we start out in forms in the shade and only understand what we have known or are comfortable with. And when someone finds that light source they become the enemy as we don't like nor want to change, as the light hurts our eyes. Even Plato missed the mark by going with what is called the 4 divine madnesses of Plato that was divided into 4 gods. Which were saying that prophecy was inspired by Apollo, the mystic madness by Dionysus, the poetic by the Muses, and the madness of love, inspired by Aphrodite and Eros. Learning has to start someplace !
Last edited by Foxpaw; 05/12/25 04:28 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402205
05/12/25 01:37 PM
05/12/25 01:37 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
white17

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
|

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
|
So, White, where did the ions come from? In the illustration you gave to Iona of gold were already gold, so colliding them at high speeds seems logical to get gold out of it. In that illustration, no new material was formed. To create an ion........electrons are stripped from an atom by an electrical field. That is how RHIC created the ionized particle that they then accelerated. And I think you misunderstood. I was not saying that NEW or MORE gold was created. New MATTER and anti-matter was created by the collisions of photons surrounding the ionized gold atom. Here's is a better explanation. https://phys.org/news/2021-07-collisions-matterantimatter-pure-energy.htmlAnd here; https://www.bnl.gov/rhic/physics.phpAnd here. https://youtu.be/Vyq_AYWctSo
Mean As Nails
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402211
05/12/25 01:56 PM
05/12/25 01:56 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
white17

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
|

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
|
Again, where did the materials that caused the Big Bang come from?? As I said before there was no matter prior to the BB. As Northwestern Yote just explained........and I mentioned earlier.........the universe was too hot to allow atom formation. .....nucleosynthesis.. Prior to the BB..........our best science at this time indicates that there was gravity, electromagnetism, photons, the strong force and the weak force. You have heard of quarks and gluons ?? They are the subatomic particles that are either changed from one quark to another..by the weak force or they are held together by the strong force to form either protons or neutrons. Again, as Northwestern Yote mentioned earlier.......immediately after the BB there was a quark-gluon plasma that was still too hot to allow the formation of atoms......... Plasma is considered "matter" so this is likely the first form of matter in the universe. As the plasma cooled......it eventually reached a point referred to as "quark confinement"......at around 380,000 years after the BB.............again as noted by NY above.
Mean As Nails
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402213
05/12/25 02:01 PM
05/12/25 02:01 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
white17

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
|

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
|
They will never tell us because there’s no logical way for those first materials to form. Evolution always starts with something, but to go from nothing to something is impossible.
I have already directed you to a few places that prove you are wrong. Something (matter) has been created directly from "nothing" (photons...nothing because they are not matter.) See the previous links concerning RHIC This information is all readily available to you. You just have to make the effort. And of course you need to really care about learning something new.
Mean As Nails
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402221
05/12/25 02:13 PM
05/12/25 02:13 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
|
If we're talking about impossible, walking on water or turning water into wine would definitely qualify. At a very young age (and being made to go to church) I figured out that I was being fed a line.
My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: beaverpeeler]
#8402284
05/12/25 04:21 PM
05/12/25 04:21 PM
|
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Foxpaw
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
|
If we're talking about impossible, walking on water or turning water into wine would definitely qualify. At a very young age (and being made to go to church) I figured out that I was being fed a line. Watch and you might see how a young man can walk on wet paint when he paints himself into a corner, lol.
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402354
05/12/25 06:57 PM
05/12/25 06:57 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
|
So where did the quarks, protons, and gluons come from? And what was causing the heat before the Big Bang you were referring to? Where did God come from? If the answer is He always was..maybe that could fit for an answer for the protons, quarks, and gluons as well.
My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402880
05/13/25 04:53 PM
05/13/25 04:53 PM
|
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Foxpaw
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
|
Also what caused the ions to travel at the high speeds required to create the “matter” when they collide? The bible doesn't say. The biblical accounts focus on the divine power and the order of creation, not the mechanistic details of particle interactions. If God thought it was more necessary to be concerned with the mechanics of it he would have surely told us that in His Word. Gods Word is more about His creation and His Divine Will. If you think you need more White has given you plenty of references to study about laws of natural things. Titu3:9 says: 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. That scripture stresses the importance of avoiding unproductive and divisive debates or inquiries, as they are no benefit to spiritual growth or real understanding. The Bible stresses His creation and Divine Will. It is best when offered as free will. If someone has license to drive a car it does not mean they need the knowledge of every moving part of that car. They know how to put the key in it and drive. They don't need to know the exact timing of each piston coming up and when the valves open or when the spark plugs fire. Most don't even know how to change a tire so they wouldn't be qualified to change someone elses. If one has a flat tire and grabs a passerby by the throat asking info how to change it, it wouldn't be as productive as reading the manual yourself. You have to learn to swim without flailing. If you can't swim then grab a board !
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402889
05/13/25 05:09 PM
05/13/25 05:09 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2024
IL
NorthwesternYote
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jul 2024
IL
|
Every single statement the Bible makes is true and has been proven true. If you are saying the Genesis account of Creation is wrong than you are saying the entire Bible is wrong too. Like I said earlier, find one lie or false statement in the Bible. Just so you know, you’re going to have some trouble finding one. Let me ask you a question in turn. Where does this doctrine of a strict, literal interpretation of every word in the Bible come from? Does the Bible itself state that it should be interpreted that way?
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402918
05/13/25 06:32 PM
05/13/25 06:32 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
wetdog
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
|
Also what caused the ions to travel at the high speeds required to create the “matter” when they collide? God said, let there be light Maybe the vibration of God's words started the movement I've often wondered if that is God's true power, just the sound and vibration of his voice
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: wetdog]
#8402951
05/13/25 07:39 PM
05/13/25 07:39 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
|
Also what caused the ions to travel at the high speeds required to create the “matter” when they collide? God said, let there be light Maybe the vibration of God's words started the movement I've often wondered if that is God's true power, just the sound and vibration of his voice The problem with that is that it doesn’t work for evolutionists. That would mean God caused creation to happen, not the Big Bang.
|
|
|
Re: Debate
[Re: Husky]
#8402955
05/13/25 07:48 PM
05/13/25 07:48 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2024
IL
NorthwesternYote
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jul 2024
IL
|
The problem with that is that it doesn’t work for evolutionists. That would mean God caused creation to happen, not the Big Bang. Or God caused the Big Bang to happen. The Big Bang itself suggests a beginning to our universe and is a compelling argument for God. The idea of the Big Bang is first attributed to Georges Lemaître, who was a Catholic priest. This isn't an inherently atheist idea.
|
|
|
|
|