No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 13 of 16 1 2 11 12 13 14 15 16
Re: Debate [Re: NorthwesternYote] #8402050
05/12/25 02:48 AM
05/12/25 02:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
trapper
Husky  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Originally Posted by NorthwesternYote
Originally Posted by Husky
Again, where did the materials that caused the Big Bang come from??

Science does not tell us and may never tell us. I'm a believer, so I don't have a problem with the prime mover being God.


They will never tell us because there’s no logical way for those first materials to form. Evolution always starts with something, but to go from nothing to something is impossible.

Re: Debate [Re: NorthwesternYote] #8402054
05/12/25 04:19 AM
05/12/25 04:19 AM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by NorthwesternYote
Originally Posted by Husky
Again, where did the materials that caused the Big Bang come from??

Science does not tell us and may never tell us. I'm a believer, so I don't have a problem with the prime mover being God.


Plato reasoned that with 2nd and 3rd causes there had to be a 1st cause (mover). Knowing there is a first mover then getting to know that mover is a great quest. I think one step of that phase is described pretty good using Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Many times we start out in forms in the shade and only understand what we have known or are comfortable with. And when someone finds that light source they become the enemy as we don't like nor want to change, as the light hurts our eyes.

Even Plato missed the mark by going with what is called the 4 divine madnesses of Plato that was divided into 4 gods.
Which were saying that prophecy was inspired by Apollo, the mystic madness by Dionysus, the poetic by the Muses, and the madness of love, inspired by Aphrodite and Eros. Learning has to start someplace !

Last edited by Foxpaw; 05/12/25 04:28 AM.
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402205
05/12/25 01:37 PM
05/12/25 01:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Husky
So, White, where did the ions come from? In the illustration you gave to Iona of gold were already gold, so colliding them at high speeds seems logical to get gold out of it. In that illustration, no new material was formed.



To create an ion........electrons are stripped from an atom by an electrical field. That is how RHIC created the ionized particle that they then accelerated. And I think you misunderstood. I was not saying that NEW or MORE gold was created. New MATTER and anti-matter was created by the collisions of photons surrounding the ionized gold atom.

Here's is a better explanation.

https://phys.org/news/2021-07-collisions-matterantimatter-pure-energy.html
And here;

https://www.bnl.gov/rhic/physics.php

And here.

https://youtu.be/Vyq_AYWctSo


Mean As Nails
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402211
05/12/25 01:56 PM
05/12/25 01:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Husky
Again, where did the materials that caused the Big Bang come from??


As I said before there was no matter prior to the BB.
As Northwestern Yote just explained........and I mentioned earlier.........the universe was too hot to allow atom formation. .....nucleosynthesis..

Prior to the BB..........our best science at this time indicates that there was gravity, electromagnetism, photons, the strong force and the weak force. You have heard of quarks and gluons ?? They are the subatomic particles that are either changed from one quark to another..by the weak force or they are held together by the strong force to form either protons or neutrons.

Again, as Northwestern Yote mentioned earlier.......immediately after the BB there was a quark-gluon plasma that was still too hot to allow the formation of atoms......... Plasma is considered "matter" so this is likely the first form of matter in the universe. As the plasma cooled......it eventually reached a point referred to as "quark confinement"......at around 380,000 years after the BB.............again as noted by NY above.




Mean As Nails
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402213
05/12/25 02:01 PM
05/12/25 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Husky

They will never tell us because there’s no logical way for those first materials to form. Evolution always starts with something, but to go from nothing to something is impossible.


I have already directed you to a few places that prove you are wrong. Something (matter) has been created directly from "nothing" (photons...nothing because they are not matter.) See the previous links concerning RHIC

This information is all readily available to you. You just have to make the effort. And of course you need to really care about learning something new.


Mean As Nails
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402221
05/12/25 02:13 PM
05/12/25 02:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
If we're talking about impossible, walking on water or turning water into wine would definitely qualify. At a very young age (and being made to go to church) I figured out that I was being fed a line.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Debate [Re: beaverpeeler] #8402284
05/12/25 04:21 PM
05/12/25 04:21 PM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
If we're talking about impossible, walking on water or turning water into wine would definitely qualify. At a very young age (and being made to go to church) I figured out that I was being fed a line.


Watch and you might see how a young man can walk on wet paint when he paints himself into a corner, lol.

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402289
05/12/25 04:28 PM
05/12/25 04:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
coastal ny
G
gcs Offline
trapper
gcs  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
coastal ny
You cant win a "debate" with someone that's convinced, and accept on faith everything he's ever heard or been "taught".... tired

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402316
05/12/25 05:39 PM
05/12/25 05:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
trapper
Husky  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
So where did the quarks, protons, and gluons come from? And what was causing the heat before the Big Bang you were referring to?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402317
05/12/25 05:40 PM
05/12/25 05:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
trapper
Husky  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
And also, could you explain how animals came to be?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402320
05/12/25 05:48 PM
05/12/25 05:48 PM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Step into the water
Wade out a little bit deeper
Wet your feet in the water of his love
Oh Step into the water (children)
Wade out a little bit deeper
Come join angels singin'
Praises to the Lamb of God

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402354
05/12/25 06:57 PM
05/12/25 06:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Originally Posted by Husky
So where did the quarks, protons, and gluons come from? And what was causing the heat before the Big Bang you were referring to?


Where did God come from? If the answer is He always was..maybe that could fit for an answer for the protons, quarks, and gluons as well.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402427
05/12/25 08:39 PM
05/12/25 08:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
trapper
Husky  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
So how do you explain the existence of animals?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402824
05/13/25 03:07 PM
05/13/25 03:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
trapper
Husky  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Also what caused the ions to travel at the high speeds required to create the “matter” when they collide?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402880
05/13/25 04:53 PM
05/13/25 04:53 PM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by Husky
Also what caused the ions to travel at the high speeds required to create the “matter” when they collide?


The bible doesn't say. The biblical accounts focus on the divine power and the order of creation, not the mechanistic details of particle interactions. If God thought it was more necessary to be concerned with the mechanics of it he would have surely told us that in His Word. Gods Word is more about His creation and His Divine Will. If you think you need more White has given you plenty of references to study about laws of natural things.

Titu3:9 says:
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

That scripture stresses the importance of avoiding unproductive and divisive debates or inquiries, as they are no benefit to spiritual growth or real understanding.
The Bible stresses His creation and Divine Will. It is best when offered as free will.
If someone has license to drive a car it does not mean they need the knowledge of every moving part of that car. They know how to put the key in it and drive. They don't need to know the exact timing of each piston coming up and when the valves open or when the spark plugs fire. Most don't even know how to change a tire so they wouldn't be qualified to change someone elses. If one has a flat tire and grabs a passerby by the throat asking info how to change it, it wouldn't be as productive as reading the manual yourself.

You have to learn to swim without flailing. If you can't swim then grab a board !

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402889
05/13/25 05:09 PM
05/13/25 05:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2024
IL
NorthwesternYote Offline
trapper
NorthwesternYote  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2024
IL
Originally Posted by Husky
Every single statement the Bible makes is true and has been proven true. If you are saying the Genesis account of Creation is wrong than you are saying the entire Bible is wrong too. Like I said earlier, find one lie or false statement in the Bible. Just so you know, you’re going to have some trouble finding one.

Let me ask you a question in turn. Where does this doctrine of a strict, literal interpretation of every word in the Bible come from? Does the Bible itself state that it should be interpreted that way?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402918
05/13/25 06:32 PM
05/13/25 06:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
Originally Posted by Husky
Also what caused the ions to travel at the high speeds required to create the “matter” when they collide?

God said, let there be light
Maybe the vibration of God's words started the movement
I've often wondered if that is God's true power, just the sound and vibration of his voice

Re: Debate [Re: wetdog] #8402951
05/13/25 07:39 PM
05/13/25 07:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
trapper
Husky  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Originally Posted by wetdog
Originally Posted by Husky
Also what caused the ions to travel at the high speeds required to create the “matter” when they collide?

God said, let there be light
Maybe the vibration of God's words started the movement
I've often wondered if that is God's true power, just the sound and vibration of his voice


The problem with that is that it doesn’t work for evolutionists. That would mean God caused creation to happen, not the Big Bang.

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402954
05/13/25 07:42 PM
05/13/25 07:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Coldspring Texas
Savell Online crying
"Wilbur"
Savell  Online Crying
"Wilbur"

Joined: Dec 2006
Coldspring Texas
…. What if he farted and that set things in motion

… just thinking out loud here


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8402955
05/13/25 07:48 PM
05/13/25 07:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2024
IL
NorthwesternYote Offline
trapper
NorthwesternYote  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2024
IL
Originally Posted by Husky
The problem with that is that it doesn’t work for evolutionists. That would mean God caused creation to happen, not the Big Bang.

Or God caused the Big Bang to happen. The Big Bang itself suggests a beginning to our universe and is a compelling argument for God.

The idea of the Big Bang is first attributed to Georges Lemaître, who was a Catholic priest. This isn't an inherently atheist idea.

Page 13 of 16 1 2 11 12 13 14 15 16
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread