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I guess to many it really means if they like or don't care about swift justice for apparent aggravated crimes !
We don't have swift justice in this country any more, every crime has two or three appeals and those for serious crimes usually have stay's of some sort plus a myriad of appeals, some death sentences do not even get carried out before the person dies in person of natural causes, thats not swift justice by any means of the name
I feel if the trial is questionable, they get one more or a stay until the reasons can be worked out, after that they either move on with the original sentence or another trail after which they are either reset with a new sentence, or if the original is given once again, they move right into that sentence being brought forth and completed with no new stay's or appeals !
Swift and complete justice for aggravated crimes would send a new message that one cannot go to prison and continue with living, while those who lost part of their family, have no way to reconcile their grief in the loss they share !
Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412272 06/01/2501:31 PM06/01/2501:31 PM
Iam for it 100% a former governor of illinois commuted 167 people on death row back in 2003.1 of those individuals waited in a couples house till they came home and murdered both of them then had sex with the deceased girl there was a mountain of evidence no ifs in this case.small town of about 400 people were in a uproar when the governor did this.just my 2 cents.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412283 06/01/2502:25 PM06/01/2502:25 PM
Sure, but if you're going to have it make it fast after appeals. None of this multi year bull...but prosecutors need to prove the crime beyond the shadow of doubt
In Cuba at sunrise the day after you're convicted you get a blindfold and wall to stand in front of. You get the death penalty for murder, rape, treason, drug dealing and armed robbery. The streets are safe in Havana all night long.
My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412307 06/01/2503:19 PM06/01/2503:19 PM
Sure, but if you're going to have it make it fast after appeals. None of this multi year bull...but prosecutors need to prove the crime beyond the shadow of doubt
the current standard is beyond a REASONABLE doubt.
you'd get a lot fewer convictions (meaning more guilty parties would walk away free) if you raised the standard as you suggested.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412328 06/01/2504:24 PM06/01/2504:24 PM
The ceremonial law of the Old Testament (Temples, candles, animal sacrifice, etcetera.) ended with the the death of Christ. Moral law still stands in the New Testament. Death penalty for murder and rape.
The ceremonial law of the Old Testament (Temples, candles, animal sacrifice, etcetera.) ended with the the death of Christ. Moral law still stands in the New Testament. Death penalty for murder and rape.
Let the next of kin trip the trap door or flip the switch to old sparky !
not near fast enough. when I was working there we got several ready almost nightly before they got a stay from a judge somewhere. One night we had seven ready to go and only one went. he didnt return either.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412433 06/01/2508:02 PM06/01/2508:02 PM
not near fast enough. when I was working there we got several ready almost nightly before they got a stay from a judge somewhere. One night we had seven ready to go and only one went. he didnt return either.
…. That at Ellis or Polunsky?
Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412437 06/01/2508:08 PM06/01/2508:08 PM
Ellis 1, they didnt move them to Polunsky until that great escape several years after I went to LE. right at Thanksgiving. the only one to make over all three fences was snagged by a crappie fisherman. Had a 223 hole through one lung. I think he was in Harmon creek just off of the Trinity river. his cardboard and epoxy attempt at body armor wasnt functional. adjudication did occur.
Ellis 1, they didnt move them to Polunsky until that great escape several years after I went to LE. right at Thanksgiving. the only one to make over all three fences was snagged by a crappie fisherman. Had a 223 hole through one lung. I think he was in Harmon creek just off of the Trinity river. his cardboard and epoxy attempt at body armor wasnt functional. adjudication did occur.
…. lol
Remember back in the early 2000’s when they put that colored boy down at the Walls downtown Huntsville I believe
… I rode through all kind of protests… stopped just outside of town to get gas .. and here come some Africans upset about my confederate flag sticker on my back windshield
… I pulled my chopped down 870 and pumped gas wether they liked it or not
…I was just hoping one of em would draw … but they crawfished back behind that gas station
Ellis 1, they didnt move them to Polunsky until that great escape several years after I went to LE. right at Thanksgiving. the only one to make over all three fences was snagged by a crappie fisherman. Had a 223 hole through one lung. I think he was in Harmon creek just off of the Trinity river. his cardboard and epoxy attempt at body armor wasnt functional. adjudication did occur.
Alfred Hitchcock had a movie about the "'Final Escape". I just bet the gal would have lived longer if she had blew out that match quicker, flames use up oxygen, lol.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412467 06/01/2509:16 PM06/01/2509:16 PM
Gotta remember that we have a LEGAL system, and not a JUSTICE system.
That being said, I'm opposed, because I don't want the govt to have the power to kill citizens. That being said, throw rapists and murderers in genpop and let it get sorted out on its own. No tears will be shed here.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412471 06/01/2509:20 PM06/01/2509:20 PM
Anyone who harms an innocent child via raping or sex trafficking should get the death penalty; very swift and not time in jail. Harming innocent children is something a "moral country" should not tolerate; yet we do; here in this country. Swift death penalty should include all politicians, Presidents, Sheiks, Prime ministers, Senators, Bankers, Silicon Valley Billionaires, etc. Basically, the people that run our world. I say when convicted, then let them meet their Maker and deal with Jesus and God, we just make the arrangement. Jesus is pretty clear about harming little innocent children.
It ain't crackheads cooking meth and burning down their trailer houses and campers that are paying for these virgins. It ain't junkies on the street breaking and stealing that are paying for this to happen. This is organized crime on a global level; and the US is encouraging it. Let them all burn. It is US vs. THEM.
Resident Conspiracy Theorist Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, Putin Fan Boy, and Obama Clone
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412509 06/01/2510:14 PM06/01/2510:14 PM
I never even knew much about Jody Foster until Reagan got shot and from what I knew then I had the opinion I didn't care for Jody's acting until just a few years ago I just by chance saw "The Little Girl That Lived Down The Lane". My mind changed about her acting and making a statement.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412522 06/01/2510:28 PM06/01/2510:28 PM
They had public hangings on the court house square here before my time. Whole families would show up and make it a community affair complete with jeers & heckling.
We need to get back to that, because face it, there's nothing more entertaining & satisfying than hearing a scumbags neck crack at the end of a rope. Lol
Plus, it's a mighty effective deterrent to other wannabe up & coming scumbags to see their cronies snuffed out at one of these neighborhood solidarity gatherings.
Member - FTA
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412541 06/01/2511:42 PM06/01/2511:42 PM
You start from the outside Chancey, with your less sophisticated scumbags while pressuring judges, sympathy groups, and politicians to fall in line, then you work your way in and hang every scumbag that is a somebody, Lol.
This country would turn around for the better on a dime, but most don't believe it's possible....But it is...There are enough people out there fed up with crime that we are ripe for the rope.
Member - FTA
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412545 06/02/2512:01 AM06/02/2512:01 AM
Savell, the turd you are thinking of was Gary Graham. REAL POS!! turd fought em all the way to the gurney until they strapped it in. he was ok with shooting and killing five or six folks after robbing them with but when his time came to pay, couldnt face the music.
Having worked in Corrections for 25+ years, I have a few thoughts on the matter...
First off, and I can get deep into the weeds on this one - you gotta consider which "correctional philosophy" you prescribe to. Do you believe the purpose of the sentence is to deter people from committing crime, is it intended to be retribution (eye for an eye), to restore or make the victim "whole" or is it to rehabilitate the offender?
If it's retribution you seek, then death=death seems reasonable I suppose.
If it's to deter people from committing the most serious of crimes, one would logically expect that states that have the death penalty would have fewer people committing the crimes that qualify them for it. (Spoiler alert: The data doesn't support this.)
If your goal is to make the victim "whole", then we'd have to ask the victim (or their surviving family) to see what sentence they would like imposed.
As for the idea of rehabilitating people - that's a whole other matter.
The US is in love with locking people up and/or putting people on probation. If doing more of that translated into lower crime rates, then our crime rates would be DRASTICALLY lower than other developed nations. Yet the opposite is true.
While I agree that the pendulum has swung too far over into too many diversions and/or failure to adequately respond to criminal behavior (especially amongst youth) - I've never seen a shred of evidence suggesting that harsher penalties ALONE will translate into anything other than significant increases in the cost to the tax payer.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412648 06/02/2508:38 AM06/02/2508:38 AM
Feeling you are immune from the law is what gives criminals the idea that they can do what they want. To answer your question, Yes, driving under the influence is a criminal activity. Why would you think it’s not?
Having worked in Corrections for 25+ years, I have a few thoughts on the matter...
First off, and I can get deep into the weeds on this one - you gotta consider which "correctional philosophy" you prescribe to. Do you believe the purpose of the sentence is to deter people from committing crime, is it intended to be retribution (eye for an eye), to restore or make the victim "whole" or is it to rehabilitate the offender?
If it's retribution you seek, then death=death seems reasonable I suppose.
If it's to deter people from committing the most serious of crimes, one would logically expect that states that have the death penalty would have fewer people committing the crimes that qualify them for it. (Spoiler alert: The data doesn't support this.)
If your goal is to make the victim "whole", then we'd have to ask the victim (or their surviving family) to see what sentence they would like imposed.
As for the idea of rehabilitating people - that's a whole other matter.
The US is in love with locking people up and/or putting people on probation. If doing more of that translated into lower crime rates, then our crime rates would be DRASTICALLY lower than other developed nations. Yet the opposite is true.
While I agree that the pendulum has swung too far over into too many diversions and/or failure to adequately respond to criminal behavior (especially amongst youth) - I've never seen a shred of evidence suggesting that harsher penalties ALONE will translate into anything other than significant increases in the cost to the tax payer.
You bring up good points.
We definitely need to overhaul both our so called justice system and corrections system.
JMO, but we need to quit criminalizing every petty offense. Over regulation makes all of us a felon in waiting, just not caught yet. I believe this is by design. Also the justice system, like our tax system, should not be a tool of social justice or social engineering. We also need to have a set list of mutually agreed upon crimes that are beyond the pale and deserving of death. We are too arbitrary on just what is "bad" and whether or not we actually care that it gets punished. As for rehabilitation, i do believe in it but the state can not accomplish that absent God. We need to return to a nation fundamentally based upon Godly principles.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412722 06/02/2510:53 AM06/02/2510:53 AM
Wright B, good point, and if DUI offenders are constantly offending and taking lives' and being released with no accounting save a year or so in jail, not prison, there is a difference, then the sentence should represent their lack of cooperation with their, rehab attempts, some people never do learn or care as long as they can wait out their sentencing !
Warrior, there are a myriad of country's following God's principle's, it doesn't seem to be working for them either !!!
Humans know right and wrong as a general rule, how they impose those on them selves is a strong question, with out an easy answer,, though most know right from wrong we still need curbs to follow or we all will result in total chaos, which seems to be slowly happening in some areas.
There needs to be a sturdy ruling, that when a set sentence is made it is carried out, whether in public or behind a closed door doesn't really matter the end result shown is what does, and it never is, it is just a small media blitz, say it's been carried out, people need to see some things thats a viscus memory of what happens when you seriously go off the rails and lose your control or don't give a care any longer, its more visceral to others in that frame of mind who are wobbling with decision !
Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412729 06/02/2511:06 AM06/02/2511:06 AM
People can and will do time for killing while driving drunk, but to compare that to any person that without malice takes the life of any person for a stupid reason or because they were just there, or their crime was that bad and never ever will see the streets again go ahead and put them down. This country is full of said people that are to be able to live out life in the confines of prison, WHY? should we have to use tax payer money so they can die of old age.The people they took the life of do not get to see old age. Save the money.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412732 06/02/2511:12 AM06/02/2511:12 AM
With all the new technologies such as DNA, video surveillance, etc, when there is not the slightest doubt, I agree with the death penalty. A lot of criminals have been set free only to commit the same crimes once again.
Kenneth Allen McDuff is a perfect example. He was paroled after serving time for killing a couple. He shot the male then raped and killed the girlfriend. He wasn't out long when he kidnapped a convenience store young lady who he raped and killed. Did the same with another young mother he ran into at a car wash. He was caught when a former companion of his told authorities he bragged to him about the crimes. Fingerprints, DNA, and the companion's testimony got him the death penalty.
The first bottles of Coca Cola contained 3.5 grams of cocaine. That's how our grandparents were able to walk to school uphill both ways in the snow.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412741 06/02/2511:38 AM06/02/2511:38 AM
I don't love the Government killing people and I especially don't love it without sufficient due process (years and, especially decades, is way too long).
That being said, plenty of people need to die for their bad deeds. I would prefer that we let the victim (or the family if the victim is dead) do it.
Maybe we should take a page from the Saudi justice system.
Would you support cutting off a thief's hand or blinding someone? Somehow I can't support those acts but I am not opposed to the death system.
I would be fine with those, actually. We need more variety in our legal system for punishments. Our only punishments are to throw someone in a cage, or to take their money (fines) or make them promise to be nice for a while (probation) in lieu of being thrown in a cage. And if they don't pay or don't be nice, they get thrown in a cage. Also, throwing someone in a cage for decades seems pointless. If they can't learn to be a decent person out in polite society within a few years of living in a cage, they'll never learn it.
Last edited by loosegoose; 06/02/2512:06 PM.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412838 06/02/2502:47 PM06/02/2502:47 PM
B County While a good thought and I can understand the reasons for it. I seriously doubt the families or victims in general would choose to do so. I'm for the option, and certainly some probably would take advantage.
I'm not a fan of public display's, either, I doubt that it would profess anything but public outcry about peoples rights and such, which would just continue to slow things down.
Being of better sound mind and morals, religion believer's and what not else, it would still leave these people waiting for their sentence to be given out, which means they still would be sucking funds off of the rest of us.
About the only way is to have back the swift and clear sentence carried out with in a certain time period not to exceed, if and after the person was awarded a second court hearing deciding another trial or not. This would in my view stop people from thinking, well I will just wait my time out, if they knew they ae going to end up the same what they caused others to depart this world !
Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412842 06/02/2503:05 PM06/02/2503:05 PM
I’m kind of for it if done within 1-year of conviction. To be carried out by bullets shot by robot type systems. I’m also for a public whipping post for repeat shoplifting, car theft and other non-criminal, but repeat crimes. Singapore has a low crime rate because nobody wants to be caned.
I’m kind of for it if done within 1-year of conviction. To be carried out by bullets shot by robot type systems. I’m also for a public whipping post for repeat shoplifting, car theft and other non-criminal, but repeat crimes. Singapore has a low crime rate because nobody wants to be caned.
Tying em' up a caning folks for theft and the like would probably do wonders. I'm kind of with BC on the family choosing when it comes to a capital offense. They can chose death or a life of hard labor/solitary confinement.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8412876 06/02/2504:40 PM06/02/2504:40 PM
unless its your child, grandchild, elderly mother, wife and so forth. heaven forbid you ever are placed in that seat and have to face that turd for ruining your life and many others. These folks are degenerates. Its that simple. If you have never dealt with them., you havent a clue. and, honestly, what you say on here has no worth.
you havent experienced their destruction. I have, it is horrendous.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8413164 06/02/2510:51 PM06/02/2510:51 PM
Remember back in the early 2000’s when they put that colored boy down at the Walls downtown Huntsville I believe
… I rode through all kind of protests… stopped just outside of town to get gas .. and here come some Africans upset about my confederate flag sticker on my back windshield
… I pulled my chopped down 870 and pumped gas wether they liked it or not
…I was just hoping one of em would draw … but they crawfished back behind that gas station
I’m kind of for it if done within 1-year of conviction. To be carried out by bullets shot by robot type systems. I’m also for a public whipping post for repeat shoplifting, car theft and other non-criminal, but repeat crimes. Singapore has a low crime rate because nobody wants to be caned.
Tying em' up a caning folks for theft and the like would probably do wonders. I'm kind of with BC on the family choosing when it comes to a capital offense. They can chose death or a life of hard labor/solitary confinement.
I don't think the victim's family should choose the punishment when you are dealing with a horrendous case involving a repeat offender such as a serial killer is one example. Giving them life only to possibly eventually be paroled, is a danger to the public. A judge or the jury should decide whether the perpetrator lives or dies.
The first bottles of Coca Cola contained 3.5 grams of cocaine. That's how our grandparents were able to walk to school uphill both ways in the snow.
I don't think the victim's family should choose the punishment when you are dealing with a horrendous case involving a repeat offender such as a serial killer is one example. Giving them life only to possibly eventually be paroled, is a danger to the public. A judge or the jury should decide whether the perpetrator lives or dies.
If the victim of a crime, or the victim's family in the case of murder. says "justice for me looks like XYZ", and XYZ doesn't happen, then justice isn't served, hence we have a legal system and not a justice system.
I don't think the victim's family should choose the punishment when you are dealing with a horrendous case involving a repeat offender such as a serial killer is one example. Giving them life only to possibly eventually be paroled, is a danger to the public. A judge or the jury should decide whether the perpetrator lives or dies.
If the victim of a crime, or the victim's family in the case of murder. says "justice for me looks like XYZ", and XYZ doesn't happen, then justice isn't served, hence we have a legal system and not a justice system.
I would call it more like a common sense call. Kenneth Allen McDuff, perfect example. Here is a serial killer who slips through the cracks and gets paroled. He kills and rapes two young women once he's out who would be alive today if he had been put to death.
He had been locked up and convicted for killing a couple prior to that and a couple women, but the evidence was too circumstantial on those last two to convict him of that crime. Victim's family's decisions are based on emotions, not justice.
The first bottles of Coca Cola contained 3.5 grams of cocaine. That's how our grandparents were able to walk to school uphill both ways in the snow.
Re: Death Penalty
[Re: Savell]
#8413448 06/03/2503:48 PM06/03/2503:48 PM