This imagery with the destruction of Jerusalem can hardly be missed since similar language is used concerning the fall of the same city to the Babylonians in 586 B.C.: “The Lord has trampled Virgin Daughter Judah like grapes in a winepress” (Lam. 1:15).

Isn't Revelation ch 14 about the distruction of Jerusalem?

Yes it could be but it the book of Revelations was written in 96 AD by John, As stated above the 1st temple was destroyed in 586 BC and the Romans destroyed the 2nd temple in AD 70 during the Roman Jewish war that was from 66AD to 73 AD. The Babylonians were a major enemy of the Jews. The Romans were major enemies of the early Christians and Thus John even in isolation on Patmos was not inclined to dis the Romans.


Bryce

How come there is so much contention on what it says?

Because most Christians fall into one of two categories Danny.

Premillennialism or Amillennialism. These are two distinct eschatological views that differ in their understanding of the millennium and Christ's return. I think Zionism also plays a large role in which side of the divide one falls on.

I don't think John was worried about dissing the Roman's.
Also haven't seen any proof that revelations was written that late.

Because revelations is a highly symbolic book, and open to interpretation.

Or revelations is literal and folks think it is symbolic.

I didn't realize there was contention in this conversation.
No more than if we were talking about the best trap for Coyotes or how many drops of coyote urine is to much.
The thread is about the reliability of the Bible. Seeking reliability is Seeking truth. This conversation is amongst believers of different understanding and some who have doubts or maybe don't believe.
I ask questions for two reasons. One is because it's edifying and helps me understand other believers views.
The other is to share scripture. Chapters, verses, and passages in the way that I understand them.
And I voice my beliefs as a hope others will as well. And I'll answer questions as I would hope others would.
Is I'm responding to your question.

^^^Excellent post Giant Sage.

Chancey,
I know your a truth seeker.
My hope is that Husky will read all the responses and learn from the different views.
Ask questions and think outside the box = let scripture speak to him with an open mind.
I'm glad you are standing for your beliefs Husky. Keep reading and pray for truth and discernment.
When I was a babe in the faith I was gung-ho to preach the Gospel to all the would.
I had a young pastor tell me to keep reading. I cant tell you how many times his advice has popped back into my head. One of the armors of God is to have your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel.
This is most important to evangelize.

Yep!

Thanks for that Chancey.

I think the Olivet Discourse is a clue Jesus gives. He says, it will take place during the generation living at that time. The apostles are asking him, Matt 24:3, "Tell us, when will theses thing be and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" Then in verse 15: "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the hold place." This is the antichrist. Prior to this are the clues he gives.

I feel the end of the age is we are currently living in the church age. It started with the apostles, Paul, and others as they were building the church. The church age will come to an end. We are seeing much of what Jesus said will come to be in this present time. After all this takes place Verse 30 says, "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and glory." John makes reference to this in Rev. 1:7 as well.

It's happening now and this is only the beginning.

Tectonics probably did push the sea life to the top which could be proof that the world was once water covered. I think it's possible those could have been a result of the flood of Noah.

When it comes to the millions of years old the earth is I'm only repeating what scientists say. I have no idea on the exact age of the earth, but as mankind was put on it isn't millions of years old. There were no dinosaurs during the time of Abraham. There was no mention of them during that time.

Even the literalist takes a lot of it as symbolic. Does anyone actually think Jesus has a sword coming out of his mouth? And I bet if you go back and read the really early church they believe the Romans were anti Christ. I'm ok with being wrong, lol, there's over 100 views of end times and most are highly speculative. I don't believe in a secret rapture anymore, for example, because it's based on one misinterpreted verse. Jesus is coming back to judge the world, but it's all one event. Anyways I don't think he's gonna care if we misunderstood prophecy as long as we are under the blood.

2 judgements - get into your Bible PAskinner

The Bible describes two major judgments: the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers (Revelation 20:11-15) and the Judgment Seat of Christ for believers (2 Corinthians 5:10; Romans 14:10). The Great White Throne Judgment will assess the deeds of those who do not believe in Christ, while the Judgment Seat of Christ will evaluate the works and faithfulness of believers for the purpose of rewards.

I don't believe in a secret rapture anymore, for example, because it's based on one misinterpreted verse. [/quote]


What scripture and what is the correct meaning then? Not too secret is it if you know it could be coming?

and for some of you including Savell who may not understand why Jesus only healed certain individuals at times He tells us - in Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

We may not understand everything Jesus did and why He always did what He did - but the more we read and get to know His Word - we will learn.