Tectonics probably did push the sea life to the top which could be proof that the world was once water covered. I think it's possible those could have been a result of the flood of Noah.

When it comes to the millions of years old the earth is I'm only repeating what scientists say. I have no idea on the exact age of the earth, but as mankind was put on it isn't millions of years old. There were no dinosaurs during the time of Abraham. There was no mention of them during that time.

Even the literalist takes a lot of it as symbolic. Does anyone actually think Jesus has a sword coming out of his mouth? And I bet if you go back and read the really early church they believe the Romans were anti Christ. I'm ok with being wrong, lol, there's over 100 views of end times and most are highly speculative. I don't believe in a secret rapture anymore, for example, because it's based on one misinterpreted verse. Jesus is coming back to judge the world, but it's all one event. Anyways I don't think he's gonna care if we misunderstood prophecy as long as we are under the blood.

2 judgements - get into your Bible PAskinner

The Bible describes two major judgments: the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers (Revelation 20:11-15) and the Judgment Seat of Christ for believers (2 Corinthians 5:10; Romans 14:10). The Great White Throne Judgment will assess the deeds of those who do not believe in Christ, while the Judgment Seat of Christ will evaluate the works and faithfulness of believers for the purpose of rewards.

I don't believe in a secret rapture anymore, for example, because it's based on one misinterpreted verse. [/quote]


What scripture and what is the correct meaning then? Not too secret is it if you know it could be coming?

and for some of you including Savell who may not understand why Jesus only healed certain individuals at times He tells us - in Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

We may not understand everything Jesus did and why He always did what He did - but the more we read and get to know His Word - we will learn.

and for good measure some Matthew 12:

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

Yes, one when we die and one final judgment. Still only one second coming.

What scripture and what is the correct meaning then? Not too secret is it if you know it could be coming?
[/quote]
Secret meaning a "Left behind" series scenario, where believers go " poof" and dissappear. Most people get the rapture from Thessalonians 4, but it's actually about the final judgment.

1 Thessalonians 4:16, "For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first."

Ok, now the supposed rapture verse:
1 Thessalonians 4:17, "Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever."

Pretty obvious this is all one event, happening at his return.

Trapper7,
You mentioned the abomination of desolation being the antichrist.
In Luke's parallel verses, Luke 21:20 it appears that when jerusalem is compassed with armies was his description
Of the abomination of desolation. Jesus did say to the Apostles that Not one stone of the temple will not be left standing. He also said in verse 34 that this generation shall not pass, till all there things be fulfilled.

Also after the desolation verse in Luke 21:20
Vs 22 he mentions judgment =vengeance.
The generation he is speaking to is surly the same generation he is warning of coming judgment in Matthew 23:33-36

Does this really seem like Jesus is speaking of anything other that the 70 ad distruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

I’m not sure where I read it, but it was about the prophecies in the Old Testament that were fulfilled by JESUS.
There are over 300 known prophecies( probably more yet to be discovered)that were fulfilled .
The institute of science and mathematics ( yes it is a real place) decided to tackle this.
The odds of 1 man fulfilling just 8 of them were 1 in a quintillion.
To help understand these odds.. take a stack of quarters about 18 inches tall.. and place a stack in every 2 inches in Texas… now, pull one quarter out of all those stacks.
JESUS fulfilled over 300.
Here’s another thought…JESUS appeared to over 500 eye witness after his resurrection, yet, it’s dismissed.
But ceasr was stabbed in the back supposedly by Brutus and is considered as a fact, yet, there were no witnesses.

Good evidence for the reliability of the Bible right there foxkidd44.

Wow how misinformed
check the facts the real truth not what some preacher said
we didn't even have what we call the bible till the 4th century
what did the world do before that
if one part is made up why can't it all be.
judges 15
samson went out and caught (three hundred fox), tied their tails
together in pairs and lashed a torch between each pair of tails
to spread fire in the philistine's crops
yeah, sure he did.
how long would it take to catch 300 fox
probably have to have pens to put them in and feed and water too.
is this a true story

I'm right about where Wildlifeartist is on all of the bible stuff. I'm a pretty decent BS'er but those boys had me beat hands down.

BP, I'm confident that if you had 2000 years you could come up with some whoppers lol.
Just funin.

In all seriousness, the story of Samson and the foxes seems more like folklore.
We realy don't know if Samson had super powers and I'm not sure if the story of Samson is a prophetic story.
I believe Samson was a Nazarite which I believe that they were not allowed to cut there hair.
Maybe this was a precursor of Jesus the Nazarite who had super natural power.
I do know of one trapper who cought 400 fox in 20 days and 500 in 30.
Maybe some of you have heard of him. His name is Ogorman.
When i see the pyramids I have a hard time believing that they could have been built without some sort of super natural power, but they exist. Over 5000 pieces of evidence that are over 90 % in agreement is pretty compelling evidence of the accuracy of scripture. Try and make that happen through the grapevine. and see what the accuracy is.
Take it as you will. I'm glad we have free will and are not forced what to believe or think.

Trapper7.......once again....you stated someone was recently making fake fossils and having them dated millions of years old. I cant find that post now but I am interested in reading about it. can you direct me to that source? And how can a flood kill sea dwelling animals? I believe the opposite to be true, drought would almost have to happen for them to die and be fossilized. And why does it have to always be Noahs flood, Im sure there were many back then and earlier just as is happening now? If the earth was once water covered, how could it flood?

Trapper7.......once again....you stated someone was recently making fake fossils and having them dated millions of years old. I cant find that post now but I am interested in reading about it. can you direct me to that source? And how can a flood kill sea dwelling animals? I believe the opposite to be true, drought would almost have to happen for them to die and be fossilized. And why does it have to always be Noahs flood, Im sure there were many back then and earlier just as is happening now? If the earth was once water covered, how could it flood?[/quote]

I will tackle some of this. I too have read and watched as carbon dating of new materials comes back millions of years old. With heat and pressure and flooding - materials can be changed and scientific samples taken and examined and random dates assigned according to interpretation. Flood could easily kill sea animals by dilution of needed materials in the sea. Don't believe me - get a salt water aquarium, buy a bunch of expensive salt water fish and fill it with fresh water.
Show me one example of a flood before Noah or I will simplify it for you - show me one example of a rain before then. And again - show me where the Earth was ever covered by water before the flood.

Again, many people simply can't believe what the Bible says and don't even truly know it enough to know what it says. Quit assuming things and research them. It is ok to question things but we should all try to use critical thinking skills and learn. My faith has led me to many, many questions I have researched and experienced for myself. I have learned to believe and trust in Jesus and the Word.

Brandon Lake has a song out called - Too Good to Not believe. I agree with him. When you begin to seek God and desire to know Him you will learn more and more. If you continue to doubt and not believe and try to use our limited minds you can stay stuck in unbelief. That is the wonderful thing about salvation being a gift and something WE can not do for ourselves. There is only one requirement to be saved by grace - to be a sinner. We all qualify. We all deserve death as there is not a single one of us without sin - we all know we have done wrong. But we have hope. His name is Jesus. He paid the price for our sins so that we can choose life eternal with Him or eternal damnation by continuing on in our unbelief. When we begin to understand, we won't ever be able to fully understand, then we have faith. When our faith is in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ and we begin to realize what He did and what authors and witnesses testified about His life and hundreds of years before His birth - we begin to understand the reliability of the Bible. I believe in the reliability of the Bible because I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. I know who I am in Christ. I know I was dead and now I am alive.

You asked what they used before the forth century...the writings of the apostles that became the Bible, along with the Torah. Isaiah alone is enough to convince me it's true. Dated long before Christ, it predicted his existence and death. Samson killed a lion with his hands too. He wasn't an ordinary man when God empowered him.