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Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454713
08/15/25 12:55 PM
08/15/25 12:55 PM
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Magna, Utah
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PF So just because you feel there is no success on keeping drugs away from the public, makes you feel that releasing them is going to be better ??


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Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454714
08/15/25 01:02 PM
08/15/25 01:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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The crux of all addiction, human beings love pleasure....Sex releases drugs from within the body. (Dopamine, endorphins, etc.)...So does food.

Show me a person who says they aren't addicted to anything, and I'll show you a liar....How you handle that defines your situation, and fate.


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Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: GritGuy] #8454716
08/15/25 01:05 PM
08/15/25 01:05 PM
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Indiana
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Indiana
That depends on what you are asking i think will be better. Do I think drug use will go down better? That answer is no, I don't think it will make use go down. I don't think it will shoot up either. It may appear to go up due to it comming out in the open more so more visibility vs hiding it.


Do I think it will be better not having asset forfeiture laws excuses to be in existence,.not having over crowded prison for victomless crimes. And on and on. yes I think it will be better for that.

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: ky_coyote_hunter] #8454718
08/15/25 01:12 PM
08/15/25 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
The crux of all addiction, human beings love pleasure....Sex releases drugs from within the body. (Dopamine, endorphins, etc.)...So does food.

Show me a person who says they aren't addicted to anything, and I'll show you a liar....How you handle that defines your situation, and fate.


I have things I like and enjoy sex being one, hunting another, some would say im addicted to work and that would be possibly the closest thing I have an addiction to.
But enjoyment does not =addiction. Addiction is a have to have it willing to do stupid things to get it. There is not a think i can think of im willing to harm myself or family to get. And the working a lot is to get to where I don't have to work as much or as far away. Addicts don't do drugs so they can quit doing drugs.

I think you are conflating addiction and obsessions some what.

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454720
08/15/25 01:17 PM
08/15/25 01:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Hey PF, the glaring first sign of addiction is denial grin Lol...But I hear you brother....Carry on.


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Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454757
08/15/25 02:44 PM
08/15/25 02:44 PM
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PF you are a great dodge of questions LOL

How can drug free drug use thats addicting not go higher if there is access to unlimited supply of it, whether it's been hidden or not? The case is it's addicting and will cause more problems in the short and long run, this is actually a fact now with controlled use, why wouldn't it go up with open use. Do you believe there is some sort of correlation between hidden use and open use that would slow or stop addiction. I don't see any change other than more addicts having more access to something thats causing everyone problems, such as more addiction, more family troubles, more theft for quick cash to get more, unless you equate more differently than most people do, LOL

I don't know what your not wanting asset forfeiture and victim less crime detention has to do with this, other than both come from being addicted to drugs as well, as a preventive measure to have the addict get off drugs, what is your suggestion to curtail addict's from going back on after a stint in jail ? Slap their face a couple times, or make them go to clinics for staying clean which works maybe 1 out of 8 times ?

Do you feel there should be no result of crimes done by addicts to get funds for more drugs now, or even stealing and selling stolen things for the addiction to have more ? What about when addicts are so wiped out they cause death's to others from their actions same as drinking has done, because it's now regular access does this eliminate cause and affect from the user on some one else ?

This is a very slippery slope to move into, as everyone has seen it with alcohol, not the beer out there however in some cases as well, and it being regulated still in some states and it can't be done to how easy it is to access, at least hard drugs have a more difficult way of access, even though as been mentioned its easy to get, might be in some areas others not so much, however the bottom line is the misuse of drugs that are mind changing and cause people to abstractly be cornered on the source for their needs !


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Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454788
08/15/25 05:04 PM
08/15/25 05:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Beatrice, NE
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Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Fentanyl use = FREEDOM!!!

What a great libertarian campaign slogan!!!

Close.

Getting to choose what you put into your own body, and getting to choose what you don't have to put into your own body=freedom.


Maybe "the government decides what goes into your body, not you!" Could be the next Republican campaign slogan.

Last edited by loosegoose; 08/15/25 05:05 PM.
Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454793
08/15/25 05:21 PM
08/15/25 05:21 PM
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Loosegoose, a person has that option now. Legal or not a person still has the ability to choose what goes into his/her body. All your bunch is advocating is making it easier to choose. The end result of heavy drug use is the same.

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: J Staton] #8454809
08/15/25 05:55 PM
08/15/25 05:55 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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Originally Posted by J Staton
Loosegoose, a person has that option now. Legal or not a person still has the ability to choose what goes into his/her body. All your bunch is advocating is making it easier to choose. The end result of heavy drug use is the same.

That's like saying a person can choose to chop their AR barrel down to 12" and put in a homemade lightning link now.

Actually, I'd like to make that easier, too. But the folks that oppose that use the same arguments that the drug criminalization folks use.

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454818
08/15/25 06:05 PM
08/15/25 06:05 PM
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W Mich
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T-minus 60 days until trapping season in Michigan.

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: loosegoose] #8454843
08/15/25 07:22 PM
08/15/25 07:22 PM
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Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline
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Eau Claire Wi
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by J Staton
Loosegoose, a person has that option now. Legal or not a person still has the ability to choose what goes into his/her body. All your bunch is advocating is making it easier to choose. The end result of heavy drug use is the same.

That's like saying a person can choose to chop their AR barrel down to 12" and put in a homemade lightning link now.

Actually, I'd like to make that easier, too. But the folks that oppose that use the same arguments that the drug criminalization folks use.


The gun/drug comparison is a disgusting straw man and weakens your argument to the point of ridicule.

A person owning a gun/using a gun does not change their brain chemistry and is not a psychotropic.

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Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: GritGuy] #8454879
08/15/25 08:46 PM
08/15/25 08:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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Indiana
Originally Posted by GritGuy
PF you are a great dodge of questions LOL

How can drug free drug use thats addicting not go higher if there is access to unlimited supply of it, whether it's been hidden or not? The case is it's addicting and will cause more problems in the short and long run, this is actually a fact now with controlled use, why wouldn't it go up with open use. Do you believe there is some sort of correlation between hidden use and open use that would slow or stop addiction. I don't see any change other than more addicts having more access to something thats causing everyone problems, such as more addiction, more family troubles, more theft for quick cash to get more, unless you equate more differently than most people do, LOL

I don't know what your not wanting asset forfeiture and victim less crime detention has to do with this, other than both come from being addicted to drugs as well, as a preventive measure to have the addict get off drugs, what is your suggestion to curtail addict's from going back on after a stint in jail ? Slap their face a couple times, or make them go to clinics for staying clean which works maybe 1 out of 8 times ?

Do you feel there should be no result of crimes done by addicts to get funds for more drugs now, or even stealing and selling stolen things for the addiction to have more ? What about when addicts are so wiped out they cause death's to others from their actions same as drinking has done, because it's now regular access does this eliminate cause and affect from the user on some one else ?

This is a very slippery slope to move into, as everyone has seen it with alcohol, not the beer out there however in some cases as well, and it being regulated still in some states and it can't be done to how easy it is to access, at least hard drugs have a more difficult way of access, even though as been mentioned its easy to get, might be in some areas others not so much, however the bottom line is the misuse of drugs that are mind changing and cause people to abstractly be cornered on the source for their needs !



Your lack of comprehension is not dodging questions. Honestly your own statement show you don't have an ability to extrapolate.
If they can already get anything and all they want now and the laws are not functioning to stop or slow drugs use. then the same limiting factors will be in play if it's not illegal.

it's not availability or eas of access. we have already established that's a non issue. The limiting factor is money.

Drug users are going to use regardless they can only afford limited amounts. Making it legal is not going to make non drug users run out and become users

Trap set the gun example is spot on. It clearly proves the point but in a clear way that laws don't stop behavior and and an objective is neither good or bad it's how it's used that determines that.

But But but drugs change brain chemistry and . Bullets remove brain tissues. both can kill

Has nothing to do with pointing out laws don't stop crime. Criminals still get guns and use guns to comit crimes. l breaking several laws. but if we just add one more law and restrictions murders will.stop.. Same exact concept with drugs. Laws have not and will not stop people using drugs. clearly prover the last how many decades?

But keep doubling down on failed position and policies. Proves it's not just democrats that do this.



Last edited by Providence Farm; 08/15/25 08:48 PM.
Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454887
08/15/25 09:02 PM
08/15/25 09:02 PM
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Indiana
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Indiana
bow hunter it IS ILLIEGAL now it stopes nothing. It being illegal was effective we would not have this discussion. Alcohol being illegal created and funded the mob and led to lots of other crimes funded by selling and distributing alcohol.

Drugs being illegal funds the cartels, human trafficking and many other crimes. It also makes the government ton of money and lots of kick backs as well. Money for cops, courts lawyers, for proffit prisons, and on and on.


You can't protect people from themselves. it also blows me away how otherwise intelligent people loose the ability To see cause and effect on one issuer when it mirrors another they take the exact opposite stand on.


Last edited by Providence Farm; 08/15/25 09:03 PM.
Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: Providence Farm] #8454888
08/15/25 09:03 PM
08/15/25 09:03 PM
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IL
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IL
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
and the laws are not functioning to stop or slow drugs use. then the same limiting factors will be in play if it's not illegal.

I'm not sure I believe that. The fact that some people are willing to break the law to use drugs doesn't mean that only those people would use drugs, if legal. They would be easier and less risky to obtain. Do you have any statistics, beyond your "from the porch" observations, to back up that claim?

Lots of people get hooked on opioids because of drugs they were legally prescribed. I don't believe people like Rush Limbaugh were looking to get addicted; they were provided the medicine by doctors to deal with pain, and they became hooked.

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454895
08/15/25 09:13 PM
08/15/25 09:13 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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Spain and Portugal have both decriminalized user amount possession of drugs. They aren't exactly "legal", but it's an administrative crime, and most cases just get suspended. They still confiscate drugs, and heavily prosecute the trafficking. But, you aren't gonna get in trouble for having a baggie of heroin on you.

In both countries, they have less drug use and drug deaths than in America. They spend far less than America, even with have needle exchange programs, govt rehab etc.

[Linked Image]

Article about results of drug decriminalization in Spain



Last edited by loosegoose; 08/15/25 09:15 PM.
Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: NorthwesternYote] #8454897
08/15/25 09:22 PM
08/15/25 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthwesternYote
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
and the laws are not functioning to stop or slow drugs use. then the same limiting factors will be in play if it's not illegal.

I'm not sure I believe that. The fact that some people are willing to break the law to use drugs doesn't mean that only those people would use drugs, if legal. They would be easier and less risky to obtain. Do you have any statistics, beyond your "from the porch" observations, to back up that claim?

Lots of people get hooked on opioids because of drugs they were legally prescribed. I don't believe people like Rush Limbaugh were looking to get addicted; they were provided the medicine by doctors to deal with pain, and they became hooked.



So as long as Dr. are doing the pushing and pharma is geting the money its all good? So if its prescribed there is no personal responsibility? is what I take as your stance.

Doctor know what's addicting, people know what's addicting there are even warning labels right on the bottles. People know when their bodies are telling them that are geting addicted. The people are putting the drugs in their own body voluntarily.
Doctor pushing opioids like tick tack created the opioid epidemic. Made a lot of addict's Dr's, pharmacys, drug companies and yes the government knew what was and would result. Then cut them off and its cheaper and easier to get and do street drugs.

Have an issue and need pain meds not ok but you have to go to a pain clinic. Can still get the drugs just an extra step

I have zero sympathy for drug addicts and alcoholics. They all know the risk starting with the first pill, drinks hot,or puff.

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454900
08/15/25 09:26 PM
08/15/25 09:26 PM
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Bowhunter whats your plan to slow the flow? When are we going to see hospitals overflowing with life threatening opioid withdrawal? Are you suggesting we adopt the quickly carried out death penalty other countries are using?

What we are doing now aint working. Thats indisputable fact.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: loosegoose] #8454901
08/15/25 09:27 PM
08/15/25 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
Spain and Portugal have both decriminalized user amount possession of drugs. They aren't exactly "legal", but it's an administrative crime, and most cases just get suspended. They still confiscate drugs, and heavily prosecute the trafficking. But, you aren't gonna get in trouble for having a baggie of heroin on you.

In both countries, they have less drug use and drug deaths than in America. They spend far less than America, even with have needle exchange programs, govt rehab etc.

[Linked Image]

Article about results of drug decriminalization in Spain



I don't think comparing the USA directly to other countries is particularly instructive, since they have different cultures, demographics, and geography. I'd be more interested in what type of behavior Spain and Portugal saw over time, before and after their policy change. And if they won't arrest people for simple possession, then how are they gathering their statistics? If somebody is arrested for possession, it goes in the police report. If they aren't arrested for possession, where does it get logged?

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: Providence Farm] #8454909
08/15/25 09:32 PM
08/15/25 09:32 PM
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IL
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
So as long as Dr. are doing the pushing and pharma is geting the money its all good? So if its prescribed there is no personal responsibility? is what I take as your stance.

When did I say anything about this is all good? Don't put words in my mouth.

Re: Let’s legalize fentanyl and morphine [Re: bowhunter27295] #8454911
08/15/25 09:33 PM
08/15/25 09:33 PM
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