Exactly how is preventing someone from taking fentanyl a tyrannical act? Personally I am ok with doing our best to prevent a bad problem from getting worse.

https://www.addictiongroup.org/resources/fentanyl-statistics/

I sincerely cannot believe I am having a discussion with supposed intelligent men about whether or not FENTANYL should be legal or not. Absolutely baffling!!

Well from what I can see from libertarian logic, by the government choosing not to enforce any drug laws, our society would be a better place. I mean zero drug laws. Now let's say something as stupid as this comes about.

1. Where does the predominance of fentanyl and opioids come from?
2. Would the production of these opioids increase from those countries?
3. Are we protecting our country from all enemies foreign and domestic by allowing this?

We don't want terrorists here? We don't want pedophiles here? We don't want criminals here? But according to libertarians, let the drugs flow and let the weaklings of our society be killed by their own suicidal overdose. If they come in high the second time on fentanyl, it is a DNR.

NOW, to all you libertarians, what entity then decides who lives or dies? The same entity you claim is intruding on our lives by not letting us snort, take or shoot up what we want when we want.

Libertarians and drug legalizers will never understand why this is a political self inflicted knife to the heart. I like libertarian mindset, but then they talk about legal drug everything and lose the majority of people who might actually choose to be a libertarian.

Oh well, CARRY ON!!

bow hunter it IS ILLIEGAL now it stopes nothing. It being illegal was effective we would not have this discussion. Alcohol being illegal created and funded the mob and led to lots of other crimes funded by selling and distributing alcohol.

Drugs being illegal funds the cartels, human trafficking and many other crimes. It also makes the government ton of money and lots of kick backs as well. Money for cops, courts lawyers, for proffit prisons, and on and on.


You can't protect people from themselves. it also blows me away how otherwise intelligent people loose the ability To see cause and effect on one issuer when it mirrors another they take the exact opposite stand on.

I'm not sure I believe that. The fact that some people are willing to break the law to use drugs doesn't mean that only those people would use drugs, if legal. They would be easier and less risky to obtain. Do you have any statistics, beyond your "from the porch" observations, to back up that claim?

Lots of people get hooked on opioids because of drugs they were legally prescribed. I don't believe people like Rush Limbaugh were looking to get addicted; they were provided the medicine by doctors to deal with pain, and they became hooked.

Spain and Portugal have both decriminalized user amount possession of drugs. They aren't exactly "legal", but it's an administrative crime, and most cases just get suspended. They still confiscate drugs, and heavily prosecute the trafficking. But, you aren't gonna get in trouble for having a baggie of heroin on you.

In both countries, they have less drug use and drug deaths than in America. They spend far less than America, even with have needle exchange programs, govt rehab etc.



Article about results of drug decriminalization in Spain

So as long as Dr. are doing the pushing and pharma is geting the money its all good? So if its prescribed there is no personal responsibility? is what I take as your stance.

Doctor know what's addicting, people know what's addicting there are even warning labels right on the bottles. People know when their bodies are telling them that are geting addicted. The people are putting the drugs in their own body voluntarily.
Doctor pushing opioids like tick tack created the opioid epidemic. Made a lot of addict's Dr's, pharmacys, drug companies and yes the government knew what was and would result. Then cut them off and its cheaper and easier to get and do street drugs.

Have an issue and need pain meds not ok but you have to go to a pain clinic. Can still get the drugs just an extra step

I have zero sympathy for drug addicts and alcoholics. They all know the risk starting with the first pill, drinks hot,or puff.

All I can say is please keep talking and typing.

Bowhunter whats your plan to slow the flow? When are we going to see hospitals overflowing with life threatening opioid withdrawal? Are you suggesting we adopt the quickly carried out death penalty other countries are using?

What we are doing now aint working. Thats indisputable fact.

I don't think comparing the USA directly to other countries is particularly instructive, since they have different cultures, demographics, and geography. I'd be more interested in what type of behavior Spain and Portugal saw over time, before and after their policy change. And if they won't arrest people for simple possession, then how are they gathering their statistics? If somebody is arrested for possession, it goes in the police report. If they aren't arrested for possession, where does it get logged?

Well let's make it all legal. That will surely help!!

LOL!!! Making Fentanyl legal will decrease its usage. LOL!!!

How do we measure the failure of the war on drugs? Was the mission to eliminate completely all drug use and distribution in the US? Would any rational person think this was an achievable goal?

Would any rational person believe the war on drugs has had zero effect?

Y'all keep typing. This is fun!!

When did I say anything about this is all good? Don't put words in my mouth.

Is it wrong that I laughingly see Mel Gibson yelling freedom?

PF, I don't need to extrapolate anything, the reading the life is all I need, and what makes you think that others are not waiting to try drugs if they are legal, you have a crystal ball to look into !


We never established they are easy to get, that was your sense of idea, if that was the case they would be every where and there would not be such a fuss about trying to catch them before got !

You might know where to go after them, I don't have any idea where to start and plan on keeping it that way !

Laws do stop behavior, thats a proven point, Drugs make people crazy and more emboldened to attempt to have them at any cost once addicted to them ! There are laws about running people over with vehicles, you don't see people out doing that for fun and games, talk about extrapolating !!

We will just have to disagree about just letting drugs be turned loose, drugs are much more dangerous in untrained hands and use, than most many other things, though I guess you reply would be , well that would not be so if every one could just get them!!

Well, drug deaths dropped 75% after decriminalization.

As far as how they gather their statistics, police are still involved. It's just not an "administrative crime", whatever that means over there. The equivalent of a parking ticket. (Except, unlike a parking ticket, there's usually no penalty at all).

Double down on failed policy, no alternative solution to present, Want even more money and more laws to support said failed policy. BOWHUNTER you really sound familiar for some reason.

LOL!!! Making Fentanyl legal will decrease its usage. LOL!!!

How do we measure the failure of the war on drugs? Was the mission to eliminate completely all drug use and distribution in the US? Would any rational person think this was an achievable goal?

Would any rational person believe the war on drugs has had zero effect?

Y'all keep typing. This is fun!!

Bowhunter, what is your solution? Or are you happy to just keep doing the same thing we've been doing, as far as the war on drugs? Would you like more enforcement? Different enforcement?

I don't think you've proposed what you'd like to see, maybe you did and I missed it.

I don't see that in the article you posted, at least explicitly. When I clicked the link for total accidental overdoses, though, I saw this:

"The total number of deaths throughout Spain due to this cause amounted to 1,070 that year, which represents an increase over previous years."

Seems to be going in the wrong direction now?

Drugs are absolutely everywhere and easy to find and get ahold of. May have to dig a bit more in Utah but i supect not. If you have never been around it you dont recognize it when its right in front of you bThey still find their way into inmates in prison for crying out loud.
I worked in construction for years drugs rampant there. Any bar you go in just need to ask around to find a supplier ot talk on a construction sight.. I have dealt with family that were addict's as well. I have 3 sisters and a brother that were in foster care mom adopted that parents were and still are addict's and criminals. The country will be better off when their parents are dead. Harsh well daddy is not only an addict and thief but also raped his daughters he had that are a few years older than my sisters. we're when we got them. It very likely he got the older 2 of my sisters as well but they were 2 and 3 and 3 months when we got them so was never proven. My brother was born and taken away at birth with drugs in his system. The youngest two are 10 months apart in age. 30 years later daddy is still in and out of jail/prison. dope head mom as well. Last I hear mom was home and staying in one of my sisters detached grage at least untill she stole my sister car one night probably for a drug run. So ya society is better off without some people.

So family, on the job, And living in society I think I have a good grasp of the effects of drug use in society. I can also see what decades of the war on drugs has and has not accomplished.

Anyone have stats on Amstersterdam? I'm too lazy to look.