That's what I'm saying

It's a little more complex than that, but from what I read, God isn't sending anyone to eternal condemnation without giving them a choice

… you think I paid attention? … I was thinking about hunting, trapping and fishing most of the time lol

I posted a few. Im intrested in where we r going with this

From God's perspective we are predestined. From man's perspective it's free will. That's the way I see it, but I do believe in an all knowing God.

… yall right … i was raised Calvinist evidently… it was a babtist church though

… always figured I wasn’t elected since I never felt a draw to religion

… kind of like how all my ancestors went to burn for eternity prior to Jesus showing up to save the day for future sorry ol gentiles like me lol

.. got the wife all stirred up over this

I would guess cigarettes, booze and girls held some of your thoughts too cuz.

I did pay attention, studied a great deal more on my own and continue to do so. It still seems like all the religions were made up by not very bright men to control other, even less bright men. Yet, I know very bright people who profess very strong belief. Many people who I like and respect are religious. I honestly wish I could believe a mostly decent religion, like Christianity, hook line and sinker. I have no doubt I would be much happier.

Sometimes I wonder if religions have such obvious fallacies and contradictions on purpose.

Do you who are religious ever doubt your religion? If so, how do you get over those doubts?

I would truly like to have a strong faith. I just have never found any faith worth having faith in .

Keith

That's a poor excuse. If it were true, you couldn't know you weren't chosen.
For what it's worth, I think God loves you just as much as anyone.

Maybe you can now share scripture that backs up your position that no one who lived pre-Christ had no opportunity for salvation

… it’s common knowledge to most … I imagine there are multiple scripts in the Old Testament say Jews were god’s chosen people and his rewards in the afterlife were only for them ? … everyone else was gentiles and not worthy

… Jesus came and died so all including the sorry gentiles were allowed in

… kind of like integration

That's fair

… if anything.. the discussions here on trapperman show Christianity is not a very cohesive religion

.. the religions of my ancestors were simple

… kick butt - get rewarded

.. be a sissy - get punished

… probably why they made more sense to a dumb butt like me

Sola scriptura is heresy in of itself.

… proving my point that Christianity is not a cohesive religion

How so?

There is truth in all Christian demoninations but the fullness of truth is in the Roman Catholic Church .

Savell, there's not much knowledge left of the religions of our ancestors. Christianity supplanted them because it's a more effective tool for controlling people. When you can convince people that if they obey those put over them and accept their suffering, because they will be greatly rewarded for it in the next life, you can accomplish much.

Keith

Amen.

Just because God already knows what decisions you will make, that doesn't mean he is manipulating you to fit a forgeone conclusion that fits His will. It still depends on whether you will decide to submit to God. You have free will to accept or reject.

Man has perverted and corrupt everything he has touched and Religion is no exception. If you studied what the founding people of this country, (which has enjoyed the most freedom in history) belived and where their beliefs came from a very strong case can be made that your wrong. In fact Christianity is not tolerated by controlling/opressive governments because it brings freedom. The last thing a controlling government wants and the first thing they get rid of is Christianity.

We didn't even have a Bible for the first 400 years of Christianity. Even then the literacy rates would've been far reaching for most believers so they'd been reliant on Bishops to bring about the Good News. St Paul even says to, " by oral tradition or by letters".

We have Church Fathers who discerned this that were close to the source , we can read their works.