If God is omniscient, he knew Satan would become evil and would lead many men to damnation. It seems evil to create him, knowing that. If God knows someone will choose wrong, it seems wrong to make them. Having ultimate, all knowing power means God is ultimately responsible.

There's got to be more to it. I do wonder if God hopes we become like him.

Keith

Now if there's no eternal damnation and only punishment that causes the soul to develop better and grow more God like, it makes more sense.

Keith

Keith i believe the answe lies in the free will thing.
In my reasoning saying you give someone free will to chose what they want but only giving them good choices to chose from is like giving multiple choice questions but making all the choices true. Its not really free will. Its a falsehood because you are controlling the outcome.

… I think you’re missing the point… a pit of fire was created to burn his children that he knew would be skeptical and die agnostic… good people mind you


… besides you’re likely bound for damnation yourself unless you’re healing the sick .. taking up rattlesnakes and drinking cyanide



… oh yeah … and performing exorcisms

How many times should God present himself to us and we reject him before he gives us what we desire? Which is no part of him. Satan let the Angels in worship in Heaven and still rejected God. Do you not think some people would not choose to reject him for ever no matter how long they are given?

Savell my point is there cant be freewill without sin and Justice without consequences. And being Just is a nature of God. All the pieces need to be there to create the whole thing. And you must take into account the whole picture to be able to understand how each part works. Which seeing the whole picture and truly understanding each piece is above our pay scale so to speak.
I have tried my best to answer your questions and address your points as best as I can but haven't heard you or Keith addres my point about whether there truly can be freewill without sin (bad choices).

… and you haven’t addressed my point about why people of European decent even care about semetic levantine religions we were forced into adopting

… as far as the free will and sin you speak of .. i responded earlier.. but guess you didn’t read it … I copied it and will repost it below

could have created anything he wanted… in fact he created what was considered perfect and a paradise for his children according to genesis

… then put in a tree of forbidden fruit knowing his children would partake… then proceeded to torture them for it

… it’s akin to putting a piece of candy in front of a toddler and saying no … then when they inevitably eat it … you set them on fire for doing so

But couldn't God just not make the people that go wrong, knowing they will go wrong. There would be less suffering if he did that. It seems cruel to create something to suffer externally. That's the act of a sadist, not a kind and loving God.

Keith

No ...that's akin to when i tell my dogs to sit ,I expect them to sit. As they should've. I don't care if a pigeon parades before them, they should 'sit'. A command is a command.

My opinion is that isnt truly freewill if your controlling the outcome before hand

Savell
To you first point about why your people that had Christianity forced upon them would care about Christianity, I missed were you asked that question despite going back through this whole post again but if i would have seen it i would have responded that since you start this thread with a question about Christianity you could probably answer that question yourself. You cared or you wouldn't have asked. Why you cared is only know by you. Unless you asked the question without caring about an answer which would lead me to ask what was your motive for the question?

Second point is he can only create what is within his nature. Perfect and Just are part of his nature and true freewill without sin seems by nature impossible.

Paradise was perfection, the tree with forbidden fruit was sin and the human was freewill. Beyond that I'm without answers unless you can ask more direct questions that could lead me to better clarification. Or if you clarify to me how you think you could truly have free will without the possibility of bad choices.

With that Im hitting the hay. Ive enjoyed the chat.

BTW,
Regarding Mark chapter 16, most translations of the bible will contain verses 9 to the end of the chapter with a footnote at the bottom of chapter 16. I think this may be the only place in the bible where such a thing occurs. I imagine the only reason that these verses aren't just omitted from bibles being printed today is because people are so used to these verses being in the KJV that they have just decided to let them be; but along with a caveat.

[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]

9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.

12 Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13 These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

Seth....... God may exist. But if he does, he's barred some of the best people on this earth I've ever met from his Kingdom. How in the world am I supposed to worship a diety that would do that? You can say they have free will, and their lack of faith is their damnation, and you may be right, but a simple lack of faith sentencing someone to an eternity of misery? Naw.... I can't worship any God that would do that. That is a vindictive God, not a kind God.....