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Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: PAskinner] #8527496
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Originally Posted by PAskinner
How can a religious organization be infallible when it's done so many evil things? You know where of I speak. We call the bible infallible because it's true. But your organization hasn't remained in the truth. It's been a mix of good and evil.


The Catholic Church is not evil, nor are her doctrines. The Catholic Church is infallible- it is protected by the Holy Spirit and it will persist long after the erroneous teachings of Luther or Calvin have faded away. The people who make up the flock are not infallible, however, and this is who you are referring to when you say “done so many evil things”. This is why we must pray for holy Priests, Deacons, Bishops, Cardinals, and Pope. They to are made of flesh and subject to the temptations of this fallen world. You must separate in your mind the Church and its members. People are sinful and have caused hardship and scandal throughout the ages, but through it all, the Church persists and it will continue to until Christ returns.

Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: SD Coon Catcher] #8527508
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I love this guy.


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Sheepdog1] #8527512
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… the Jews deny Jesus was God just like the Muslims… yet Christians like them

… none of it makes much sense to me from the jump

… much less all the bickering between the different sects of Christianity

… I think the only ones going to heaven are maybe the snake handlers

.. but even they fall short of drinking poison

.. Jim jones and company excluded of course

[Linked Image]


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Savell] #8527534
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Originally Posted by Savell
… the Jews deny Jesus was God just like the Muslims… yet Christians like them

… none of it makes much sense to me from the jump

… much less all the bickering between the different sects of Christianity

… I think the only ones going to heaven are maybe the snake handlers

.. but even they fall short of drinking poison

.. Jim jones and company excluded of course

[Linked Image]



You're a bird dog chasing it's tail , bro.

Go back to it's roots.


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Sheepdog1] #8527538
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.. I would consider that if I knew what you meant by “it’s”


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: PAskinner] #8527706
9 hours ago
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Originally Posted by PAskinner
So many people are convinced thier denomination alone holds the truth. Someone needs to point out the place in the Bible where it says to follow a certain religion. I see Jesus says to follow him, but not a certain sect.

I spent my grade school years in a Catholic school. We were taught by nuns who were very nice people. We were taught that Catholics were the only people who would go to heaven. For a long time I grew up believing that.

I knew a lady who was a Lutheran. She told me pretty much the same thing about the Lutheran church. She said there may be non-Lutherans in heaven, but it would be very difficult for them to get there.

Later in life I belonged to a Catholic church. I asked the priest if we could possibly start a bible study in the church. He told me bible studies were of the devil and said absolutely not would he allow a bible study. The church would interpret the bible and I didn't need anything else. So, I changed Catholic churches where the priest in that church not only allowed bible studies, but taught it himself. After a time of biblical study there, I began to see the errors in the Catholic church.

These same divisions of churches aren't new, but even go back to Paul's time. In 1Cor 1: 12-13 "Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ. Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or, were you baptized in the name of Paul?"

I don't feel there is any church that is 100% correct in their biblical teachings. Regardless of that, right or wrong anyone can attain salvation simply by faith in Christ. It's not as hard of a thing to grasp as some people try to make it.


When my steak is on the grill I feel my mouth watering. I wonder if vegans feel the same way when mowing the lawn?
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Sheepdog1] #8527721
9 hours ago
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By the way, the first church was really the teachings of the disciples and Paul. According to history, the Catholic churches origins came about in 590C.E. by Pope Gregory. This time marked consolidation of land controlled by authority of the the pope and later became known as the "papal states". Prior to that there was no Catholic church.


When my steak is on the grill I feel my mouth watering. I wonder if vegans feel the same way when mowing the lawn?
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Aaron Proffitt] #8527730
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Originally Posted by Aaron Proffitt


But what can't be disputed is that Christianity began with the Catholic Church. The first time ' Catholic ' was uttered was used by St Ignatius of Antioch around 100 AD. A disciple of St John. You all should really read his writings .

A Church 2000 years in the making. You don't think there wouldn't be scandal over 2 millennia ? We've only been a country for 250 years. Look at us. No shortage of. In 250 years, we've now have Constitutional scholars( Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama) who can't accept what " shall be not infringed" means.

I'll take Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement's take any day over Pastor Bob's at the Cowboy Church any day of the week.

Devotion has nothing to do with denominations. Don't limit God.


Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: SD Coon Catcher] #8527731
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Originally Posted by SD Coon Catcher
Originally Posted by PAskinner
How can a religious organization be infallible when it's done so many evil things? You know where of I speak. We call the bible infallible because it's true. But your organization hasn't remained in the truth. It's been a mix of good and evil.


The Catholic Church is not evil, nor are her doctrines. The Catholic Church is infallible- it is protected by the Holy Spirit and it will persist long after the erroneous teachings of Luther or Calvin have faded away. The people who make up the flock are not infallible, however, and this is who you are referring to when you say “done so many evil things”. This is why we must pray for holy Priests, Deacons, Bishops, Cardinals, and Pope. They to are made of flesh and subject to the temptations of this fallen world. You must separate in your mind the Church and its members. People are sinful and have caused hardship and scandal throughout the ages, but through it all, the Church persists and it will continue to until Christ returns.

What is the church? People. It's not a building.


Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Trapper7] #8527765
7 hours ago
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Originally Posted by Trapper7
By the way, the first church was really the teachings of the disciples and Paul. According to history, the Catholic churches origins came about in 590C.E. by Pope Gregory. This time marked consolidation of land controlled by authority of the the pope and later became known as the "papal states". Prior to that there was no Catholic church.

"We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church."

That predates Pope Gregory. There was a catholic, as in universal, church and it wasn't Protestant.

Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Sheepdog1] #8527832
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But does anyone not understand how corrupt this church had become when Luther did his thing?
It was the rebels who brought scripture to the common people rejected paying the church indulgences to supposedly get their loved ones out of purgatory.


Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Aaron Proffitt] #8527840
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Originally Posted by Aaron Proffitt


But what can't be disputed is that Christianity began with the Catholic Church. The first time ' Catholic ' was uttered was used by St Ignatius of Antioch around 100 AD. A disciple of St John. You all should really read his writings .

A Church 2000 years in the making. You don't think there wouldn't be scandal over 2 millennia ? We've only been a country for 250 years. Look at us. No shortage of. In 250 years, we've now have Constitutional scholars( Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama) who can't accept what " shall be not infringed" means.

I'll take Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement's take any day over Pastor Bob's at the Cowboy Church any day of the week.

Christianity began with Christ. Not something that came 100 years after him and not something that Christ never mentioned. God and Christ pretty clearly laid out a plan for salvation in the Bible and not once have I heard then mention of the Catholic Church in that plan. And I'll defer to the the Bible and the Holy Spirit above anything else.

Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Sheepdog1] #8527851
4 hours ago
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The Church is an institution. In this regard it is infallible, the institutional doctrine and teachings in which it interprets through the Magisterium which is guided by the Holy Spirit. Let’s say for example I begin to take classes at a University. I would not say that “I am the University” but rather I am enrolled as a student, becoming part of the institution. The same could be said for the Catholic Church. I myself am confirmed Catholic, a member of the Holy institution on Earth which makes the Sacraments available to me, a lowly sinner. I am not infallible, but the Church and her Doctrine as an institution are. It will simply never fail, despite the animosity toward her, as it is protected by the Holy Spirit, unlike the Protestant denominations which have splintered over and over, divided and fragmented- which cannot be denied and is great evidence against their “claims” to truth.

Last edited by SD Coon Catcher; 4 hours ago.
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: PAskinner] #8527871
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Originally Posted by PAskinner
But does anyone not understand how corrupt this church had become when Luther did his thing?
It was the rebels who brought scripture to the common people rejected paying the church indulgences to supposedly get their loved ones out of purgatory.

For 1,500 years the Catholic Church persisted in faith. There were 17 ecumenical councils prior, where the Magisterium firmly clarified doctrinal disputes- which teachings were guided by the Holy Spirit. Why did Luther suddenly decide that the only means of resolving internal corruption within the Catholic Church was to sever himself from it completely? Christ said, “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.” Luther’s response was in direct opposition to Christ and his will for the Catholic Church to remain one. Again, how was leaving Mother Church the solution? It was not. Reform must be done within, not without- which is precisely Protestantism’s biggest error, to solve is to exclude, to leave, to fragment … until there is no faith left- which is exactly what the Enemy desires. Return home to the Catholic Faith and experience the fullness of Christ’s truth, he desires for you to have the Sacraments in your life- without them, we are in grave danger as if we were soldiers without the armor in which Christ gives us to persist in this fallen world where evil preys upon the ruin of Souls.

Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Sheepdog1] #8527876
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Luther tried to reform it and the leadership refused. You can't have a religion institution thats oppressing people in direct opposition to God's word, burning people for reading scripture, forcing the poor to pay for the souls of their loved ones, totally corrupt doctrine, and call it infallible.


Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Sheepdog1] #8527884
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Does the Catholic Church teach that the only way to Salvation is through them? And if they do can you show me in the Bible where it says that?

Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Sheepdog1] #8527886
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You accuse the Catholic Church of many wrongdoings in the past, with little regard for its present status. Why? I invite you to find any “totally corrupt doctrine”, I assure you- you will not. Current review of the Catholic Church and its teachings indicates: It does not oppress or teach oppression, it does not punish (or burn) people for reading the scriptures or teach to, it does not force the poor to “pay for their or the souls of their loved ones” or teach to. Holy men and women, who remained firm in the Catholic Faith addressed these challenges, but it took time. Therefore, the Protestant separation was not necessary. To view separation as the correct course of action to the adversity Luther faced when attempting to change certain practices of the time is incorrect, rash, and conceited. The further multiplication of denominations continues to perpetuate this error, and I pray for Christian unity. St. Robert Bellarmine, Pray for Us!

Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: Yes sir] #8527890
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Does the Catholic Church teach that the only way to Salvation is through them? And if they do can you show me in the Bible where it says that?

No the Catholic Church does not claim that, however it does possess the Fullness of Means to Salvation through Christ. No Protestant or other religion can claim the fullness of means (they lack the Sacraments and Apostolic teaching). The second Vatican Council does recognize that elements of truth and sanctification can exist outside the Catholic Church, however why would one not seek the fullness of the means and truth?

Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: SD Coon Catcher] #8527893
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Originally Posted by SD Coon Catcher
You accuse the Catholic Church of many wrongdoings in the past, with little regard for its present status. Why? I invite you to find any “totally corrupt doctrine”, I assure you- you will not. Current review of the Catholic Church and its teachings indicates: It does not oppress or teach oppression, it does not punish (or burn) people for reading the scriptures or teach to, it does not force the poor to “pay for their or the souls of their loved ones” or teach to. Holy men and women, who remained firm in the Catholic Faith addressed these challenges, but it took time. Therefore, the Protestant separation was not necessary. To view separation as the correct course of action to the adversity Luther faced when attempting to change certain practices of the time is incorrect, rash, and conceited. The further multiplication of denominations continues to perpetuate this error, and I pray for Christian unity. St. Robert Bellarmine, Pray for Us!

Well, if we took that approach, America would not exist. When an institution or government becomes too corrupt, it's time to try something new. I can find lots of corruption in your church in just the last few years and you know that's the case, but I'm not just picking on one church, that's true of many. And Catholic doctrine has changed, so again, how could it be infallible? It isn't. The Protestants recognize the issue and only call the bible infallible, not any institution.


Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: Martin Luthers 95 Thesis [Re: SD Coon Catcher] #8527930
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Originally Posted by SD Coon Catcher
You accuse the Catholic Church of many wrongdoings in the past, with little regard for its present status. Why? I invite you to find any “totally corrupt doctrine”, I assure you- you will not.


I would say the Catholic Church showing tough love to heretics by burning them at the stake or stretching their body parts on racks to be a totally corrupt doctrine.

And then there is John Tetzel extorting the poor folks for money to pay their loved ones into heaven. Or, out of purgatory/jail.

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