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The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... #8570881
02/23/26 10:41 AM
02/23/26 10:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline OP
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NonPCfed  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
cancer..?

My wife likes watching (or at least having them on) these game warden shows that Animal Planet (mostly) airs. There was an older episode of "Louisiana Law" on yesterday (they were still wearing 'vid era face diapers when talking to people) where a young kid (much younger than what's allowed in South Dakota) had shot his first buck deer and his dad and him had been stopped by the Louisiana game wardens in the far north part of the state. The sticking point was that the father and son had killed the deer in Arkansas and were bringing it home whole (although I think field dressed) into Louisiana and that violated current LA CWD regulations. The LA wildlife agents hated having to confiscating the kid's first deer but in the end the dad got fined but the family (and deer) were escorted back into Arkansas-- you know that deer proof surveyor-ed map line across the landscape-- and everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

Now, I'm not picking the Louisiana game wardens, they were just following their regulations and I suspect most states now have some sort of prohibition of bring whole deer (and maybe elk as well) across state lines. And I get that dying from CWD (how many actual confirmed wildlife-induced cases has there been in the U.S.?) sounds like a horrible way to go but as a retired (well, at least not on Uncle Sugar's payroll anymore) retired scientist (but not a biological or medical one), I have to wonder (because scientists are supposed to ask questions) what are the real (known so far) odds of a person getting CWD from a dead deer or elk..? I think many state agencies now take tissue samples and we hear that CWD is out there but we never hear hear real statistical estimates (yeah, the way science is supposed to work) on the actual risks. Why not...?

However, American society does live with the reality of breast cancer and most of us have either known women who have had it and also known women who have died from it, and I'm very sorry if this has touched you directly. The ratio of breast cancer for American women is something such as one out of every eight women or a 12+% chance. That is massively more than I suspect any chance of people coming down with CWD but governments and the media appear to be much more intent in trying to stop CWD than having real policy issue discussions on why breast cancer rates are so high in America. Why is that...?

Is it because the breast cancer kitty is out of the bag and will never get reigned back in unless some specific things change AND the government entities still think they can stop CWD? Or is it simply that (probably some fighting words here) that breast cancer is a big money maker for the MdIC (and thus campaign contributions to politicians) and CWD is not and never will be?

And/or is it a backdoor way of getting people to stop eating deer as a food source, either by scaring them or outright banning the retail processing of deer in local "locker" businesses? Road killed deer are no longer picked up in my metro area, at least in any real urgency but are allowed to mostly rot away. One reason is that Sioux Falls no longer has a "rendering" plant where fresh but probably past salvageable for human eating deer can be brought to and disposed of at such a business. I don't know why the rendering plant closed but its now the road fact that we deal with on a regular basis. And in SD, a person just can't simply pick up a road killed deer.

But I've regressed. The main reason why I posted all of this is that the chances of people dying from CWD are fairly remote and breast cancer, and death by motor vehicle, are much, much higher. I guess as a society we accept those risks but an odd, new disease we have to go way overboard in trying to prevent. Go figure.


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8570959
02/23/26 12:56 PM
02/23/26 12:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2022
Arkansas
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WhiteCliffs Offline
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Arkansas
Originally Posted by NonPCfed
cancer..?

My wife likes watching (or at least having them on) these game warden shows that Animal Planet (mostly) airs. There was an older episode of "Louisiana Law" on yesterday (they were still wearing 'vid era face diapers when talking to people) where a young kid (much younger than what's allowed in South Dakota) had shot his first buck deer and his dad and him had been stopped by the Louisiana game wardens in the far north part of the state. The sticking point was that the father and son had killed the deer in Arkansas and were bringing it home whole (although I think field dressed) into Louisiana and that violated current LA CWD regulations. The LA wildlife agents hated having to confiscating the kid's first deer but in the end the dad got fined but the family (and deer) were escorted back into Arkansas-- you know that deer proof surveyor-ed map line across the landscape-- and everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

Now, I'm not picking the Louisiana game wardens, they were just following their regulations and I suspect most states now have some sort of prohibition of bring whole deer (and maybe elk as well) across state lines. And I get that dying from CWD (how many actual confirmed wildlife-induced cases has there been in the U.S.?) sounds like a horrible way to go but as a retired (well, at least not on Uncle Sugar's payroll anymore) retired scientist (but not a biological or medical one), I have to wonder (because scientists are supposed to ask questions) what are the real (known so far) odds of a person getting CWD from a dead deer or elk..? I think many state agencies now take tissue samples and we hear that CWD is out there but we never hear hear real statistical estimates (yeah, the way science is supposed to work) on the actual risks. Why not...?

However, American society does live with the reality of breast cancer and most of us have either known women who have had it and also known women who have died from it, and I'm very sorry if this has touched you directly. The ratio of breast cancer for American women is something such as one out of every eight women or a 12+% chance. That is massively more than I suspect any chance of people coming down with CWD but governments and the media appear to be much more intent in trying to stop CWD than having real policy issue discussions on why breast cancer rates are so high in America. Why is that...?

Is it because the breast cancer kitty is out of the bag and will never get reigned back in unless some specific things change AND the government entities still think they can stop CWD? Or is it simply that (probably some fighting words here) that breast cancer is a big money maker for the MdIC (and thus campaign contributions to politicians) and CWD is not and never will be?

And/or is it a backdoor way of getting people to stop eating deer as a food source, either by scaring them or outright banning the retail processing of deer in local "locker" businesses? Road killed deer are no longer picked up in my metro area, at least in any real urgency but are allowed to mostly rot away. One reason is that Sioux Falls no longer has a "rendering" plant where fresh but probably past salvageable for human eating deer can be brought to and disposed of at such a business. I don't know why the rendering plant closed but its now the road fact that we deal with on a regular basis. And in SD, a person just can't simply pick up a road killed deer.

But I've regressed. The main reason why I posted all of this is that the chances of people dying from CWD are fairly remote and breast cancer, and death by motor vehicle, are much, much higher. I guess as a society we accept those risks but an odd, new disease we have to go way overboard in trying to prevent. Go figure.


I understand your point - but the reason there are transportation laws from cwd zones it is not just the potential of transmission to a human, but also transmission of the disease to other deer in the area. If you do not think cwd is something to worry about within the deer herd, watch the podcast on the five year cwd study in NW AR where there were a lot of deer dying from cwd and the deer density declined to one deer per square mile.

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8570960
02/23/26 12:58 PM
02/23/26 12:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Green County Wisconsin
can't say the odds , my aunt died of CJ the human name for cwd and had not eaten venison at all

as for miserable ways to die , I would take liver failure it comes with a lot less pain than CJ did

we have had cwd in WI for about 26 years now that they know about or 2000 was when they first started giving warnings

we started boning out deer or at least getting the quarters off and packing them in a cooler in about 2002
with the new registration on your phone the deer comes out of the woods behind the house , gets registered and cools till hunting is over for the day then broken down and put in a cooler.

using the Wisconsin recommended bone out you need nothing but a knife , you don't saw any or break the spine
I do use a loppers on leg joint cartilage I just find it faster and easier than a knife on that but a knife will work.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8570971
02/23/26 01:14 PM
02/23/26 01:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Indiana
We tend to make high shoulder/ spine shots. I did/ do wonder if blowing the spine apart is increasing risk of transmitting from an infected deer.

Ther is just not enough info out there.

Last edited by Providence Farm; 02/23/26 01:14 PM.
Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8570974
02/23/26 01:28 PM
02/23/26 01:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Henry Co, IL
3
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Henry Co, IL
CJ is not CWD. I've watched the Meat Eater podcast with biologists that have tracked CWD in many states, and when asked they admitted that no known person has ever contracted CWD from and infected deer.

Everyone can make their own decision, I'm just stating what is biologically known.

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8570989
02/23/26 02:00 PM
02/23/26 02:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2025
Tenn/ky
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Tenn/ky
Yes and there has NEVER BEEN a deer FOUND DEAD that wasn’t killed by hunter or auto that tested positive for CWD. EHD will lower a population faster than a gun season. But the money train is CWD. WHY is it not illegal to transport cattle? Goats? Beef industry is too big to mess with

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: Treefrog88] #8571004
02/23/26 02:24 PM
02/23/26 02:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2022
Arkansas
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WhiteCliffs Offline
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Arkansas
Originally Posted by Treefrog88
Yes and there has NEVER BEEN a deer FOUND DEAD that wasn’t killed by hunter or auto that tested positive for CWD. EHD will lower a population faster than a gun season. But the money train is CWD. WHY is it not illegal to transport cattle? Goats? Beef industry is too big to mess with



https://youtu.be/uWClP0Y76sg?si=HYHXW1soou-OwRLo

I suggest you watch the video. There have been deer found dead that were killed by cwd

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: Treefrog88] #8571009
02/23/26 02:36 PM
02/23/26 02:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by Treefrog88
Yes and there has NEVER BEEN a deer FOUND DEAD that wasn’t killed by hunter or auto that tested positive for CWD. EHD will lower a population faster than a gun season. But the money train is CWD. WHY is it not illegal to transport cattle? Goats? Beef industry is too big to mess with

Cattle herds have definitely been quarantined. And plenty of laws and regulations on interstate transportation.

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: Treefrog88] #8571015
02/23/26 03:11 PM
02/23/26 03:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
South Dakota
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Merriam Offline
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South Dakota
Originally Posted by Treefrog88
Yes and there has NEVER BEEN a deer FOUND DEAD that wasn’t killed by hunter or auto that tested positive for CWD. EHD will lower a population faster than a gun season. But the money train is CWD. WHY is it not illegal to transport cattle? Goats? Beef industry is too big to mess with


This is incredibly untrue. While I like Nugent, I wouldn’t suggest taking biological advise from him. Go to NW Nebraska or Wyoming where prevalence runs 30+%. There have been plenty of deer that were on their death bed, looking like skeletons, that test positive for CWD. Yes, I’ve seen much more dramatic die offs from EHD, but I sure don’t like having CWD around either. At least EHD usually kills them quickly.

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8571017
02/23/26 03:14 PM
02/23/26 03:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline OP
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NonPCfed  Offline OP
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se South Dakota
Quote
EHD will lower a population faster than a gun season.


This has had an impact on deer in southeast South Dakota.

My issue with our state agency is that they don't actually give any datasets of what they have found or even what they are basing their evidence on. They just say, we have had EHD going on or we have found some CWD. Perhaps they do but I haven't seen anything posted.The South Dakota people really have little say in how wildlife is managed in this state unless you're a groupie and want to attend as many GF&P Commission meetings as possible and its still depends on their voting. The commission is appointed by the governor but I'm not sure if the legislature has much control over them because the GF&P either gets no general fund money or very little.

The science I was involved with didn't end up regulating anyone or collecting taxes from people, at least that I knew about, it was for basic new knowledge generation. How elected officials made policy using our findings was not our thing. My groups were used to providing datasets where others could use the same numbers to do what sort of studies they wanted to do. I suspect regulatory agencies don't have to provide their numbers unless they get sued, but maybe its state or federal agency based. Don't know.
t


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8571092
02/23/26 05:31 PM
02/23/26 05:31 PM
Joined: May 2013
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
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NonPCfed, Wisconsin seems to be the polar opposite of SD in how the public is involved with wildlife management. Every armchair biologist is given a voice through or Spring Hearing process, as well as our County Deer Advisory Councils.

Treefrog88, my understanding is CWD is a lot like HIV/AIDS. The cause of death isn't CWD, but being a neurological disorder they're easier to pick off for predators, or they might get something like pneumonia from not being able to eat properly in advanced stages.

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8571122
02/23/26 06:30 PM
02/23/26 06:30 PM
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I think that’s the problem when a politician starts talking about creating jobs.

Labs for testing CWD pop up.


Cold as ice!

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100% Manly
Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8571138
02/23/26 06:58 PM
02/23/26 06:58 PM
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Tenn/ky
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Treefrog88 Offline
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Yes and test bats for rabies. Post outcome. Doesn’t mean all bats will die from rabies. Did anyone catch what I’ve said all along. ELK VIEWING AREA.
FUNNY how they didn’t mention the % of deer found dead compared to herd size. Yes sick deer are found. Do are all animals. But where are the areas of low numbers that CWD ALONE was reason for low numbers. I’ve seen EHD at its worst. Had a farm that I personally found 18 deer laying in the creek 11 bucks and 7 does. I’ve also hunted “CWD” declared areas and NEVER FOUND one dead deer other than the 2 I put a 270 round through

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: Treefrog88] #8571142
02/23/26 07:03 PM
02/23/26 07:03 PM
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South Ga - Almost Florida
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Originally Posted by Treefrog88
Yes and there has NEVER BEEN a deer FOUND DEAD that wasn’t killed by hunter or auto that tested positive for CWD. EHD will lower a population faster than a gun season. But the money train is CWD. WHY is it not illegal to transport cattle? Goats? Beef industry is too big to mess with

Absolutely NOT TRUE^^^^

Out of 12 positives detected in Georgia so far....two were found fresh dead, emaciated in pitiful condition. No observable injuries.

Both were tested for EHD & CWD. Both were negative for EHD. Both were positive for CWD.

You might want to educate yourself....if you enjoy hunting deer and/or eat venison.


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Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8571167
02/23/26 07:34 PM
02/23/26 07:34 PM
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MN
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You guys should know better than to debate jbyrd


"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: Treefrog88] #8571187
02/23/26 08:01 PM
02/23/26 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Treefrog88
Yes and there has NEVER BEEN a deer FOUND DEAD that wasn’t killed by hunter or auto that tested positive for CWD. EHD will lower a population faster than a gun season. But the money train is CWD. WHY is it not illegal to transport cattle? Goats? Beef industry is too big to mess with


My bad I guess I should’ve said in Ky/ tenn
In fact the one deer that was observed to be sick was on a deer farm in Breckenridge co. That started the whole testing fiasco

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8571202
02/23/26 08:24 PM
02/23/26 08:24 PM
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NonPCfed Offline OP
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Quote
NonPCfed, Wisconsin seems to be the polar opposite of SD in how the public is involved with wildlife management. Every armchair biologist is given a voice through or Spring Hearing process, as well as our County Deer Advisory Councils.


Then again, we don't have a million deer hunters or whatever the large number I often hear attributed to Wisconsin. We don't even have a million deer (or close to that).

Quote
I think that’s the problem when a politician starts talking about creating jobs.

Labs for testing CWD pop up.


You are correct Jurassic Park, any time a need is created, an industry pops up. The MdIC certainly doesn't get as much press as a group the same way as the MIC but it generates a lot of money. I heard that treating (all) cancer in the USA is worth a TRILLION $$ a year.


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: Treefrog88] #8571256
02/23/26 09:28 PM
02/23/26 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Treefrog88
Yes and test bats for rabies. Post outcome. Doesn’t mean all bats will die from rabies. Did anyone catch what I’ve said all along. ELK VIEWING AREA.
FUNNY how they didn’t mention the % of deer found dead compared to herd size. Yes sick deer are found. Do are all animals. But where are the areas of low numbers that CWD ALONE was reason for low numbers. I’ve seen EHD at its worst. Had a farm that I personally found 18 deer laying in the creek 11 bucks and 7 does. I’ve also hunted “CWD” declared areas and NEVER FOUND one dead deer other than the 2 I put a 270 round through


Watch the video I posted above. one deer per square mile is about the same as none - as found in the epicenter of cwd in AR.

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8571644
02/24/26 11:31 AM
02/24/26 11:31 AM
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Henry Co, IL
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There are many deer in the wild that have died of CWD. Biologists and vets still don't understand everything involved.

20 years ago the common thought was any positive deer would be dead within 4 years. Now there is no answers for life span. I personally know of one deer donated to a wild game dinner that was showing no indication of illness. Lack of response from the state agency requested to do the testing showed the deer positive some time after the dinner event. Deer was 6 years old.

So, are some deer unaffected and are carriers?

Re: The possibility of CWD vs the reality of breast... [Re: NonPCfed] #8571678
02/24/26 12:41 PM
02/24/26 12:41 PM
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NonPCfed Offline OP
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Quote
20 years ago the common thought was any positive deer would be dead within 4 years. Now there is no answers for life span. I personally know of one deer donated to a wild game dinner that was showing no indication of illness. Lack of response from the state agency requested to do the testing showed the deer positive some time after the dinner event. Deer was 6 years old.


Maybe the testing is flawed?

From what I understand, what causes CWD isn't a bacteria or even a virus but an altered piece of protein called a "prion" . How is that actually detected..?

As I said, I'm not a biologic or medical scientist but from the science I was involved with (and published), and seeing the actual sausage making in real time, what is passed off as "flawless" may not actually be that. I'm not trying to say the rank and file are trying to do something underhanded but the understanding of "certainty" can get pretty misunderstood the further it goes down the "let's play telephone" game.


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
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