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Mountain Man Monday 4/6 #8594988
Yesterday at 07:36 AM
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east central WI
k snow Offline OP
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east central WI
A lot of the focus on the beaver trade centers around the central and northern Rockies.
There was a significant, and very colorful, beaver trade as well in the Southern Rockies, centered out of Taos and Santa Fe.
There was no annual rendezvous in the South. Trappers typically traded their furs in the towns, or made the trek North to the Green River rendezvous.
The Spanish and later Mexican government oftentimes made things "interesting" for American trappers.

From W.A. Ferris:
One of the partisans,
Fallen, went to Taos last winter for supplies, and on his return lost two Spaniards, “Engages,”
who were frozen to death on their horses. He also suffered greatly from cold and fatigue.


THE ARRAPPAHOES are a tribe of Indians who rove in one or two villages, as their inclinations
may indicate, on the sources of the Platte and Arkansas rivers. They were for several years deadly
enemies to the whites, but Capt. Ghant, whose firmness and liberality they have reason to remember
long, has established a trading house among them on the Arkansas, four day’s march from
Taos, and has succeeded in gaining their confidence and inculcating among them, an opinion of
the whites, that will perhaps secure their lasting friendship.


From Stephen Hall Meek:
In the spring of 1837, I went
to the Rocky Mountains with a few companions, trapping on the way, selling pelts to Bridger at
Green river. I then trapped in the Black Hills, on the Sweetwater and Platte, and wintered at Fort
Larmie, which was just built by Wm. Sublette. In the spring of 1838 I went south to Pike’s Peak;
then to Taos, New Mexico; then to the Arkansas and to the north fork of the Platte, and wintered
at the mouth of Cherry Creek, where Andrew Sublette built Fort Robert (Campbell), opposite the
city of Denver. That winter I went to Independence on horseback, carrying the annual express.


From General Thomas James:
About this time Baum, Beard, and Chambers, with some others,
came to St. Louis from Santa Fe, where they had been imprisoned by the Government ever since
the year 1810. They, with Robert, brother of John McKnight of the firm of McKnight and Brady,
and eight others, were the first American Santa Fe traders that carried goods from St. Louis to
New Mexico. Immediately on reaching Santa Fe their goods were confiscated by the Governor,
sold at public auction, and themselves taken to Chihuahua and there thrown into prison, where
they were kept in more or less strict confinement for the space of ten years, being supported
during that time by the proceeds of McKnight’s goods, the Government allowing 18 3/4 cents per
day to each man. This, I believe was the second company of Americans that ever entered Santa Fe.


From James O. Pattie:
On the first of August we arrived at Santa Fe, with a fine amount of furs. Here disaster awaited us. The
Governor, on the pretext that we had trapped without a license from him, robbed us of all our
furs. We were excessively provoked, and had it not been from a sense of duty to our own beloved
country, we would have redressed our wrongs, and retaken our furs with our own arms.


[Linked Image]


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8594993
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danny clifton Offline
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4 days march from the Arkansas river to Taos? What am I missing?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: danny clifton] #8594997
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
4 days march from the Arkansas river to Taos? What am I missing?


50 miles a day would be pushing it for sure.

I'd have to research more, to see if the historic Taos is in the same spot as Taos nowadays. It may have been a bit further North, by the Taos Pueblo.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595014
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EdP Offline
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The site of Bent's Fort near La Junta Co looks like the closest point on the Arkansas River to Taos NM. It is about 200 miles by our current roadways from Taos. Could Ferris be referring to William Bent when he says "Captain Ghant?" Bent's fort was built in 1833.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: EdP] #8595021
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Originally Posted by EdP
The site of Bent's Fort near La Junta Co looks like the closest point on the Arkansas River to Taos NM. It is about 200 miles by our current roadways from Taos. Could Ferris be referring to William Bent when he says "Captain Ghant?" Bent's fort was built in 1833.


Ghant, or Gantt, was a brigade leader himself.

Captain Ghant

Also from Ferris:

The party reached Toas, on the Rio del Norte; and Fitzpatrick having received his equipment, departed
for the mountains; but being unacquainted with the route, and having no guide, he missed
his way, and fell on to the Platte, where he met with Fraeb as before mentioned. Fraeb met also
on that river with a party of fifty men, led by a Capt. Ghant. They were all on foot, and led about
their own number of pack horses, and were destined for the mountains.


Some days after we entered Pierre’s Hole, a party of trappers returned, having made their hunt
to the Southward. They saw Captain Ghant, at the head of fifty or sixty men, on Green river; he
had procured horses from the Spaniards of New Mexico, and had made his hunt on the sources of
the Arkansas, and tributaries of Green river, without molestation by the Indians. Two men were
despatched by the R. M. F. Co. about this time, to meet the Saint Louis companies, and six of our
men followed a few days afterwards for the same object.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595030
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Creative spelling makes research fun sometimes.

Captain Gant (a third way to spell the name) was also referenced by Joe Meek, in River of the West:

Previous to 1835, there were in and about the Rocky Mountains, beside the “American” and
“Rocky Mountain” companies, the St. Louis Company, and eight or ten “lone traders.” Among
these latter were William Sublette, Robert Campbell, J. O. Pattie, Mr. Pilcher, Col. Charles Bent,
St. Vrain, William Bent, Mr. Gant, and Mr. Blackwell. All these companies and traders more or
less frequently penetrated into the countries of New Mexico, Old Mexico, Sonora, and California;
returning sometimes through the mountain regions of the latter State, by the Humboldt River to
the head-waters of the Colorado. Seldom, in all their journeys, did they intrude on that portion of
the Indian Territory lying within three hundred miles of Fort Vancouver, or which forms the area
of the present State of Oregon.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595038
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Here's an entry from F.A. Wislizenus. He call Bent's fort, Penn's fort. He reports it is 150 miles from Taos.

September 15th we reached Penn’s [Bent's] Fort. It lies on the left bank of the Arkansas, close by the river,
and is the finest and largest fort which we have seen on this journey. The outer wall is built of
imperfectly burnt brick; on two sides arise two little towers with loop holes. In the ample courtyard
were many barn-yard fowl. In addition, they have cattle, sheep and goats, and three buffalo
calves that peacefully graze with the rest of the herd. At the time they had no superfluity of horses
at the fort, because only a short time before a band of Indians with incredible audacity had driven
away a hundred head of horses. The fort is about one hundred and fifty miles from Taos in Mexico,
and about three hundred from Santa Fe.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595044
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Here is some more information from Ruxton:

In all maps the valley of Taos is confounded with a city which under that name appears in them,
but which does not exist, Fernandez being the chief town of the valley, and no such town as Taos
to be found. The valley derives its name from the Taoses, a tribe of Indians who once inhabited it,
and the remains of which inhabit a pueblo under the mountain about seven miles from Fernandez.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595052
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In a series of journal entries, Rufus Sage details travelling from the Arkansas to Taos. Leaving the Arkansas on Sept 22nd and reaching Taos on October 1st. While taking a few days to hunt turkey and antelope.

Sept. 22d. Crossing the Arkansas, I for the first time set foot upon Mexican soil.
Taking the Taos trail, we continued our way for ten or twelve miles and came to the Rio San
Carlos. Here the abundance of deer and turkeys was too great a temptation to be resisted, and we
remained several days to bestow upon them that attention our appetites demanded.
The country adjacent is very romantic and beautiful. The hills, enclosing the valley of the San Carlos
upon both sides, are high and precipitous, —affording numerous groves of pine, pinion,[41]
and cedar. Interspersed among them are frequent openings and prairillons of rich soil and luxuriant
vegetation. The valley is narrow, but fertile and well timbered.
Near the head of the river is a broad area, known as Fisher’s-hole, bounded upon all sides by
rugged hills and mountains, inaccessible except by a circuitous pass leading into it from the south.
The stream forces its egress through a ledge of dark-colored rock, several hundred feet in altitude,
leaving vertical walls upon each side for a long distance, that frequently overhang the gurgling
waters sweeping at their base.
This valley contains more than a thousand acres of choice land, well supplied with timber from
the heavy pine forests surrounding it.
The prevailing rock is granite, sandstone, limestone, and lias, with occasional conglomerates of
various kinds. I noticed strong indications of copper and other minerals; and the general appearance
of the country led me to conclude it to be one possessed of vast stores of hidden wealth.
While here, we were quite successful in replenishing our stock of provisions.
My experiments in turkey-hunting made me a proficient shot by moonlight, a feat which adds
materially to the sport. This is done by manoeuvring so as to have the turkey in a direct line between
the marksman and the moon, causing its shadow to fall upon his face, —then, raising his
rifle to a level from the ground upwards, the instant the sight becomes darkened he fires, and, if
his piece be true, seldom fails to make a centre shot.
The most feasible mode of hunting turkeys is to watch their roosting places at night; and, after the
moon attains the required position, they may be killed by dozens in the above manner. They rarely
leave their roosts on account of the firing; but remain, half stupefied with affright, while they
are picked off one after another by the practised hunter.
Sept. 25th. Again resuming our journey, we reached Taos on the 1st of October.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595053
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danny clifton Offline
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From Pueblo CO to Taos is about 175 miles. There were spanish among the Indians there at that time. I suspect the roads used today are real close to the routes then. Everyone taking the easiast route. Salida Co is another modern town that has existed for Centuries. Still a good ways by horse to modern day Taos.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: danny clifton] #8595057
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
From Pueblo CO to Taos is about 175 miles. There were spanish among the Indians there at that time. I suspect the roads used today are real close to the routes then. Everyone taking the easiast route. Salida Co is another modern town that has existed for Centuries. Still a good ways by horse to modern day Taos.


I am constantly amazed at the distances and speed at which they travelled at times. They also wore out horses on a fairly regular basis.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595124
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Do you have this book in your library K?

I'm about halfway done right now...very well documented and the author even researched old archives in Mexico to fill in missing info or to verify what came from other sources.
[Linked Image]


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: beaverpeeler] #8595130
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Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
Do you have this book in your library K?

I'm about halfway done right now...very well documented and the author even researched old archives in Mexico to fill in missing info or to verify what came from other sources.
[Linked Image]


I'll have to double check, but I don't believe I do.

I've been concentrating on primary sources mostly, and specifically the Green River country. I have just started looking into secondary sources and the Southwest trade.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595134
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[Linked Image]

From inside the front cover of the book.

Be happy to loan you the book when I get done K if you want.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595144
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Interesting that the website about Ghant linked in a post above, http://www.mman.us/gantt.htm, says Ghant's Fort Cass near Bent's fort was adobe and Bent's was log. Other sources describe Bent's as adobe.

Clearly Ghant and Bent were two different individuals competing in the fur trade in the same region.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: EdP] #8595150
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Originally Posted by EdP
Interesting that the website about Ghant linked in a post above, http://www.mman.us/gantt.htm, says Ghant's Fort Cass near Bent's fort was adobe and Bent's was log. Other sources describe Bent's as adobe.

Clearly Ghant and Bent were two different individuals competing in the fur trade in the same region.



I was operating under the premise that Bent's stockade here was one of the first temporary ones he built near present day Pueblo, near Fountain Creek. Not the later adobe "castle" we know as Bent's Old Fort, near La Junta.

From that website:

In May 1834 Gantt constructed a second fort on the Arkansas which he named Fort Cass.
This post was located some six miles below the mouth of Fontain Qui Boulle (now Fountain Creek)
and about 3 miles above a log trading post established less than a year earlier by William Bent.
Fort Cass was constructed of adobe.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: k snow] #8595277
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Just finished this book about a week ago. Great autobiography, no fluff and a joy to read.
Best read I've had in a while.

[Linked Image]


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2 Cor. 5:17
Re: Mountain Man Monday 4/6 [Re: K-zoo] #8595484
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Originally Posted by K-zoo
Just finished this book about a week ago. Great autobiography, no fluff and a joy to read.
Best read I've had in a while.

[Linked Image]


I might have to check that one out some time. Its after the time period I like to focus on, but he sounds like a very interesting guy.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
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