1. "Glycerin is not compatable with sun rendered fish oils." Bob Jameson
2. "Glycerin also will not mix with BTO. Nothing energetic like mixing fish oil and urine, but they will separate back out into layers almost immediately." bearcat2
3. "

Oils and waters never stay blended, an unfit union, never to become one. Different weight oils will also stratify when blended. Some very quickly, others in a short period of time.

BTO doesn’t play well with anything.

If you used an emulsifier to blend glycerin with fish oil, would the glycerin retain its antifreeze characteristic?

Some fish oils have a very low freezing point. So low the glycerine would not actually be needed. Some gel without freezing hard. In my opinion antifreeze is only needed so the contents don’t break the bottle and the product can still be applied.

Early in my luremaking career I thought I needed glycerine in everything. I’ve learned to use it only when needed.

I’ve also found it can drastically change the odor of a few bases and it can also mute odors if used in too high of quantity.

Trout oil will not freeze like water in below zero temps. Pure trout oil will begin to thicken and get very viscous as the temperature drops near the mid 50 degree range.

Even when extremely cold it still gives off the same odor, it will need to be applicated with a knife or stick and will hold fast. Once that paste is smeared upon an object it is hard to beat for a long term durable attractant. I have found it is not good to cut a high quality pure fish oil with uncompatable materials.

Keeping your application bottle in your pocket or on the dash of your truck will keep it flowable. I keep mine in a zip lock baggie with a paper towel inside to reduce leakage and spillage.

I found a workaround with the lure base I've been working on. The base is fermented eggs and trout oil. I added a bit of glycerin to help with freezing. Sunflower lecithin and guar gum. So far it's working and hasn't changed the scent profile.

my go-to sweet marten lure is 4:1 BTO/fish-oil based with emulsifier, guar gum and some glycerine to keep the polar (water-compatible) fraction of the lure from freezing/crystallizing.

It works and stays usable (neither runny nor too solid) in the working temperatures which are usually between 0 and -25C (~30 to -15 F). Too much glycerine seems to create a film in cold weather that seems to lower the vapor pressure of the mix.

But I'm no expert.

Tatiana,
Is that a smearable, paste type lure or is it more of a liquid/gel that is squeezeable?

I've made both versions, depending on how lazy I am. When I'm not, I add rotted down glands that I rub through a fine sifter. When I am, I just put them there with all the leftover hairs and chunks left after grinding. Same with ground castors vs castor tincture. I actually turned one big jar of sweet/musky lure into a "forever soup" kind of project, I kept refilling it with the base ingredints in the original proportions gradually, wile also adding some optional almost-solids such as glands, ground castors, raw mumiyo or old wild straberry jam, and noted the synergies and nuances I liked.

Unless you have compared the change on coyotes you dont really know if its changed the scent profile. Their sense of smell isnt anything like ours. We consider glycerin odorless but it can and will be detected by coyotes. Ive tested it over and over.

Another tip is eggs are a pretty good emulsifier themselves (one of the reasons they are used in cooking recipes) that ALSO add attraction to a predator formulation

Is there any reason to add lecithin to eggs if eggs already contain a ton lecithin? Also, bacteria decompose lecithin primarily into fatty acids and glycerin (among other things).

It's still all up in the air until it ages. More testing has to be done. The very first micro test lure that I put together so far is looking very promising. That's the reason I made a bigger batch to distribute to some of my friends for further testing. Where I messed up is adding a little glycerin for a little extra freeze protection. Looking back and lesson learned: STICK WITH THE ORIGINAL.

I added the lecithin after the base was all put together and it separated in a day or two. At the time I didn't know glycerin and trout oil was mortal enemies. With the addition of the emulsifier hopefully it will all come together and not change the scent profile and evaporation rate. This is a ongoing experiment now. I guess it's how inspiring lure makers pays their dues.

Thank you for answering my question. I've not tried it and was curious if the glycerin would lose it's antifreeze characteristic. I do use emulsifiers in some of my lures.

Powdered eggs also works a thickener, with all the above benefits.

Thanks for the tip.

Another question I have for the pros. Is animal scent derived the same way for all animals? For example: Does a ground hog have anal glands like a coyote or bobcat? If so can a ground hog gland lure be made the same way as a predator?

All animals have anal glands, not all species react the same to gland lures, however. Not sure what sort of reaction a groundhog gland lure would illicit.

It's enlightening to understand the anatomy, function and evolutionary origin of scent-producing organs, as well as the basic chemistry of the excretions themselves. Some glands are pretty specialized and actually produce specialized substances, such as muskrat glands (called Beer and Meyer organs), which produce big ring molecules of 17 carbon atoms (a musk related to ambrettolide). Other glands basically produce a mixture of fats, mucus and shed cells of the internal lining, but the bacteria that live in them ferment and break down those primary excretions into smellier substances (fatty acids, ketones, ...). This is how anal glands work. And anal glands are modified sebaceous (skin grease) glands
Cats mark territory not just with urine, but also with their faces (i.e. sweat glands).

Castors are interesting, they're anatomically very different from most other odor-producing glands and seem to mostly serve as a backup excretory system to support the kidneys, to help beavers deal with the specialized diet with a lot of tannins, flavonoids, various resins, etc. in the bark. They seem to be less affected by the hormonal differences between males and females than the secretions of the anal glands, so a plausible assumption is that while castor excretions mark the presence of beavers as such, the majority of information about sex and age comes from anal gland markings.

There's a lot of freely and not very freely available research on these subjects (morphology and chemistry of scent signals of mammals), mostly published in the 50's through 80's, it may not be directly applicable to luremaking but I've found it pretty educational, just for overall understanding of how animal smells work...


plus there are tons of other behaviors connected with smells... rolling in pee, marking members of the group with excretions or pee, self-anointing, ...

again, I'm no expert and I'll never have a chance to apply most of what I know. I'm just curious...

We produce a ghog gland lure, paste and fluid type. Been using it for many years. Very effective on ghog and predators. Most all your canines and felines will take ghogs if given the opportunity.

A very favorite food source for fox and coyote. In fact so much, some areas around here have very few ghogs any more.

Many have moved closer to structures in an attempt to survive. Much like the red fox have done over the years once the coyotes moved into the area.

I'm not sure either. Around here ground hogs are kinda rare. The coyotes nearly wiped em' out. But the ground hog learned he has a much better chance to survive living close to us humans. Now we have the problem of Mr ground hog living under our sheds and outbuildings. To the predator around here Mr ground hog is a luxury treat and I want to capitalize on it. Mr Jamison ground hog urine is going to be a huge help I hope along with the glands.

I believe it will work very similar here in Eastern Tennessee. Back in the 80's ground hogs lived in the middle of our Hayfields. Believe me, when you run into one mowing hay your going to know it. Late 80's early 90's coyotes moved in and about wiped em' out.

If a critter eats something does it mean that its smell has a high level of attraction when it comes to trapping formulations?

Sure does. It can be an important asset as a stand alone or as a side odor benefit.

Thanks for all the information. Animal scent is an extremely deep subject. Honeybees for example, the guard bees put off the alarm pheromones and look out. A worker honey bee enters the wrong hive with the scent of a different queen she's killed instantly. In the predator world it's very similar. After coyote pairing a lone male from an unfamiliar pack comes around most likely will be at best ran off. Gland lure and urine is so important.

BTW the heat index around here today is 105+, my scent profile is off the charts from working on a tractor. About all creatures have some sort of scent.

Odor recognition of a ghog gland formula to a predator is an excellent bait / lure I have found over the years. It isn't discussed much probably due to the fact that it isn't used alot or considered by many or they don't wish to share the info. Now that the cat is out of the bag, others will be trying it out most likely. When I have two sets out side by side, 10 ft or so, I always catch on the ghog lure first. Just my experience.

I think it’s over looked because folks often chase magic in a bottle or try to get too complicated with the smells. I believe specifically in any dirt hole style set, especially bigger holes, canines associate the visual of the hole with a familiarity of the smell. In combination with a slight taint on a ghog bait, or alone, from what I’ve observed they seem to be less apprehensive on their approach with a higher confidence to investigate the hole/set due to the natural scene (expired ghog, rabbit, skunk in its hole, or ) set in front of them with minimal foreign odors. Can’t make any of the shows this year so I enjoy hearing the experiences here other areas have when incorporating a less commonly spoken about animal into the mix!

Another idea I'm thinking about. Around here bobcats are usually in the woods. If they are out of the woods they are traveling to another patch of woods. I plan on squirrel hunting this fall and certainly keeping the tails for flagging. Possibly just removing the innards and freezing fresh for bait.