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What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? #6165825
02/21/18 10:55 PM
02/21/18 10:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
Few things are as upsetting in trapping as buying equipment you're forced to use and then have it fail.
That said, what is it with these @#$%#%$# B.A.D.'s lately ?
B.A.D.'s (or Break Away Devices) are designed to open up, should a deer or larger animal, such as livestock, accidentally step into the loop and release the said caught animal.
Those of us that have been at it awhile know that isn't a 'given' on a neck caught deer.
Should hold any coyote or similar animal though, right ?
One would think so, but lately that's not a 'given' either...

In the last several years I have walked up on, and lost, a number of coyotes.
Two this year alone. All because of the B.A.D., (a small S hook) opening up as the lunging coyote bolts away right in front of me.
These, of course are brand new 285 lb. S hooks that simply failed.
Along with that, I had over 30 this winter that when I went to remove the snare, just fell of in my hands.
They were opened up that far.
The only thing that saved me, was the coyote keeping the cable taught and not realizing just how close they were to getting away.

I live in a state that requires that we use either a deer stop and / or a B.A.D. on our snares.
Personally, I hate deer stops.
They do more damage on snared animals by moving back and forth and breaking the guard hair.
And I believe it's one of the top reasons that allow 'chew outs' on coyote catches, by not choking down the animal.
They won't save a neck caught deer...it's designed to allow a foot caught deer to slip out, when a B.A.D. does the same thing.
If you live in a state where you are forced to use both on a Cable Restraint (CR), I have to say, I feel sorry for you.
That combination is a recipe for disaster on coyotes !
If you can LEGALLY run STAINLESS cable, I'd do it !
It'll save you some fur !

I'm rambling on here, but my point is this : What is it going to take to get a decent B.A.D. to do it's job ?
Get a better S Hook / B.A.D. ? Well, sure thought I had one !
If you know anything about me, it's that I'm going to use the absolute best I can find and afford.
Probably the only B.A.D. I haven't use are Sennecker's out of Canada, so I'd like some input for those that have used them WITHOUT the use of a Kill Spring.
I live where a Kill Spring Snare is illegal for fur trappers, and that's pretty much most of the lower 48 with the exception of a few states. I wish I could legally use them.
I can't.

So, what's one to do with faulty equipment ?
Substantial Vertical Entanglement will save you in most cases, but it won't help someone snaring grasslands without the use of a Kill Pole, which is again, illegal in many states that support CR use and NO ENTANGLEMENT !
Combine that with 3/32nd cable , with a B.A.D. and a deer stop and you will end up losing some of your coyotes over time.
Although I have used a lot of Kill Poles in the past, today I catch most of coyotes alive in a 7 foot trail snare, no entanglement.
Most will be at the end of that snare, no more than a dog a dog tethered on a chain.
True, they will have mowed down every plant in that catch circle, but most will be asleep or simply lying there when I drive up.
If that S-hook has opened up enough for the cable to slip off, it can as the coyote again starts struggling and lunging at the end of the snare.

Some will ask me which company's B.A.D.s have failed, but I'm not here to bash someone's equipment.
If you wish to say, then do.

In closing, I would like to hear from other trappers who have experienced similar situations and what they've done about it, if any.

L T G.

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6165878
02/22/18 12:11 AM
02/22/18 12:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
C
cmcf Offline
trapper
cmcf  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
No expert for sure but have had success with the Amberg BAD stop on the lock end of the cable using the Amberg swagger. Bullet magnum locks (also a BAD) both are rated at 285. These are lethal snares, legal in Wyoming. I weigh 220 and have (tested) them by putting a three inch diameter pole in them tightened up the lock,tied the other end above my head and stood on the pole end. Had to jump up and down a couple of times to break them. Not scientific at all but I am confident they will hold any coyote that gets in them. Asked the Game and Fish to test them to make sure they broke at 295 or less as per regs. They said their testing device gave to erratic of results so they don't use it any more. Lol. I told them how I had (tested) them, they said sounded good to them! Never have used the S hooks, too much material for my tastes. I have enjoyed reading your threads in the past L T G
keep them coming.


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6165917
02/22/18 01:25 AM
02/22/18 01:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,976
North Central Idaho
Jumperzee Offline
trapper
Jumperzee  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,976
North Central Idaho
Welcome back LT. Great post, looking forward to it going archival!

I'm fixing to build a whole new wolf setup. We have the same regs for BAD or stop (and the goofy diverter thingy too). I lost a wolf out of a 525lb s-hook, also saved an elk with one. I went back to stops only and try to avoid setting where incidentals would be an issue, but that really limits location. Thinking of going back to the s-hook again for some more piece of mind anywhere even remotely close to elk though. Just not worth it. Interested in hearing others practical advice/experience too.

CM, that's a pretty good testing system!

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6165949
02/22/18 03:54 AM
02/22/18 03:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,064
Wasilla AK
HFT AK Offline
trapper
HFT AK  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,064
Wasilla AK
I don't have to use BAD's, but there is nothing worse in my world then trying to release a full grown moose. I have used the J and S hooks (285lbs)strictly from F&T, and have not had a failure at all in the past 4 years of using them.

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6165992
02/22/18 07:13 AM
02/22/18 07:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 363
Utah
H
herekittykitty Offline
trapper
herekittykitty  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 363
Utah
I switched to Marty Seneker style snares the last couple years and it has helped. I still had two break out this season and it is frustrating but I would rather not deal with a deer or some other non target in a snare. I had one get loose as I was driving up and it hurts to watch one run off right in front of you. Hopefully someone will invent a better BAD.

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166022
02/22/18 08:18 AM
02/22/18 08:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
western PA
D
dwc123 Offline
trapper
dwc123  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
western PA
I have had the same experience as you LT, watch 'em open that BAD before I got a shot off, or it opend up to a piont that the constant tension saved me. I have never purchasec heaver BAD's but I would caution anyone that does, are they not just made of heaver gage wire, if they are, an officer with a micrometer or calipers( who know what he is talking about) is going to give you trouble. Now what I did start to test is t-bar shock spring at the conection point of snare,, oops CR,, to the anchor piont,,( IT DOES NOT HELP CLOSE THE LOOP, SO ALL YOU CRYBABIES NEED NOT POST.) in a effort to ease the shock of a yote hitting the end of the CR at mach 1, Unfortunatly I was not able to connect before the end of the season,

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166026
02/22/18 08:31 AM
02/22/18 08:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8,231
Misery
Michael Morris Offline
"Hombre que mata demasiadas cosas"
Michael Morris  Offline
"Hombre que mata demasiadas cosas"

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8,231
Misery
My experiences have been similar. I am trying to help the deer herd not hurt it, but using CRs that has been the opposite. Plus with all the BAD failures then add on the potential for chew outs I have come to the conclussion it is in my best interest to use them as rarely as possible, which sucks, snares are a great tool (illegal here), CRs are a joke.


Push yourself to be more than you were
Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166066
02/22/18 09:34 AM
02/22/18 09:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 932
Virginia
T
thskeer Offline
trapper
thskeer  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 932
Virginia
In Virginia we have to have BOTH the BAD and Deer stop if we have any part of the loop more than 12 inches off the ground. It is an epic fail as everyone here can guess. I have been good on chew outs so far, but they aren't lethal either.

I've gone to making mine with 1\16th's for the loop, tuna swivel, then 3\32nds body to get about 6 feet length. My hope it the smaller wire will help with lethality if I can get entanglement. With the deer stop this year I have several reds that were very much alive at check time.

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: thskeer] #6166132
02/22/18 10:44 AM
02/22/18 10:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: thskeer
In Virginia we have to have BOTH the BAD and Deer stop if we have any part of the loop more than 12 inches off the ground. It is an epic fail as everyone here can guess. I have been good on chew outs so far, but they aren't lethal either.

I've gone to making mine with 1\16th's for the loop, tuna swivel, then 3\32nds body to get about 6 feet length. My hope it the smaller wire will help with lethality if I can get entanglement. With the deer stop this year I have several reds that were very much alive at check time.


What type of cable are you using ?
I use galvanized Korean 1X19 Dry cable. It's the best I've used.
Stainless, although more costly is harder to chew through.
I always use an inline 600# swivel.

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166160
02/22/18 11:14 AM
02/22/18 11:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 932
Virginia
T
thskeer Offline
trapper
thskeer  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 932
Virginia
LT, at the risk of sounding stupid, I don't know where it is made. I'm using the last of a 500 footer of Galv 7 by 7 now, and honestly when I can run without the deer stop (loop under 12" so crawl unders, some very tight fox areas, etc) it has been MONEY in that set up.

The Tuna or barrel swivel has been a great add in for me too. Sure it costs more and takes time and MAY cause a refusal or two but I can make loops ahead of time and in a few minutes crimp a new loop onto the tail and be back in business most of the time.

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166212
02/22/18 12:16 PM
02/22/18 12:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,381
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,381
williams,mn
All I can say is it's too bad you cant use a dispatch spring, given the inconsistent quality of your components. Move to a different state, I suppose .

I haven't had the cause to use a B.A.D. without a dispatch spring yet, so I haven't witnessed this scenario .


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166321
02/22/18 02:00 PM
02/22/18 02:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,518
MB
J
Jurassic Park Offline
trapper
Jurassic Park  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,518
MB
I started using 385lb senneker bads this year and they are the worst thing I have ever put on a snare in my life. If you want coyotes getting caught for a few seconds then running away, then by all means by these things. But they are terrible.
Out of 6 coyotes I caught with these bads only 1 was dead. The other 5 were gone to live and kill another day.
I started by using s hooks from the hardware store and I’ll end using s hooks from the hardware store. They are a bit big, but they will never open up!


Cold as ice!
Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166387
02/22/18 03:02 PM
02/22/18 03:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,256
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,256
Iowa
We're trying to get a BAD option on snares here vs. a mandatory deer stop on every snare. I'd rather not have posts on their potential inconsistency on the public forum.

I have used 285" BADs on my killpole snares with very good success on leg caught deer, all them have opened the BADs and escaped. I've yet to have any coyotes open them and escape either. I'm not sure who makes the BADs I'm using but the snares come from Road Runner Snares.

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: trapper les] #6166745
02/22/18 08:37 PM
02/22/18 08:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: trapper les
All I can say is it's too bad you cant use a dispatch spring, given the inconsistent quality of your components. Move to a different state, I suppose .
.


I'm guessing you're joking...
I wouldn't give up my yearly contract just because I lose a few coyotes.

Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166869
02/22/18 09:50 PM
02/22/18 09:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,381
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,381
williams,mn
Yes , I was joking about moving to a different state .


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6166969
02/22/18 10:54 PM
02/22/18 10:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
I did not loose any in CRs but came very close. The BAD was opened up almost to the point of loss. Agree the deer stops are useless, BADs I'm good but not if they straighten on yotes. Leg caught Deer seem to straighten the S bads about the second lunge. Don't get me started on Michigan's lame CR laws.......We need efficient tools to manage coyotes!!


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6167075
02/23/18 12:12 AM
02/23/18 12:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,854
Oklahoma
Ken Smith Offline
trapper
Ken Smith  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,854
Oklahoma
I have to use deer stops, and on the ranch I use these same breaks just in case some beef hers tied up in a snare.
I almost had a yote get out this year. If he had loosened up he might have been gone.


Matthew 7:6 KJV
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine....
-OFBA, NTA, FTA, TTFHA-
Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6167134
02/23/18 01:57 AM
02/23/18 01:57 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,492
Garden,Michigan
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Buck (Zandra) Offline
trapper
Buck (Zandra)  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,492
Garden,Michigan
You certainly hit the nail on the head about BADS not be a given on neck caught deer.I found that out the hard way.Being a newcomer to CR's back then I thought I had it all figured out and had the bases covered in just such cases.Certainly didn't work the way I'd envisioned.


Buck(formely known as Zandra)
Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: trappergbus] #6167234
02/23/18 08:59 AM
02/23/18 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8,231
Misery
Michael Morris Offline
"Hombre que mata demasiadas cosas"
Michael Morris  Offline
"Hombre que mata demasiadas cosas"

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8,231
Misery
Originally Posted By: trappergbus
Don't get me started on Michigan's lame CR laws.......We need efficient tools to manage coyotes!!


Who is it? MI, MO, WI and PA? Our CR regs are crap


Push yourself to be more than you were
Re: What could be worst than the B.A.D. curse ? [Re: LT GREY] #6167384
02/23/18 11:20 AM
02/23/18 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,160
uniontown pa
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gutthooked Offline
trapper
gutthooked  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,160
uniontown pa
Originally Posted By: LT GREY

Two this year alone. All because of the B.A.D., (a small S hook) opening up as the lunging coyote bolts away right in front of me.
These, of course are brand new 285 lb. S hooks that simply failed.
Along with that, I had over 30 this winter that when I went to remove the snare, just fell of in my hands.
They were opened up that far.
The only thing that saved me, was the coyote keeping the cable taught and not realizing just how close they were to getting away.

L T G.


I've had several this winter that were exactly like yours as soon as the tension was removed from the cable the restraint fell off from a bent BAD. And on the other hand had some BAD that didn't even slightly bend. I guess I'll have to experiment with different devices next season. I had a few chew outs but I can fix that issue with 1x19 cable.


Don't limit your challenges
Challenge your limits
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