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Re: charlie robbins [Re: TONY.F] #6564249
06/28/19 06:17 PM
06/28/19 06:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
I like the step down dirt hole for remakes when your natural blocking is destroyed. Great set for controlling were a coyote steps.

Re: charlie robbins [Re: henpecked1] #6564254
06/28/19 06:27 PM
06/28/19 06:27 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,492
Garden,Michigan
B
Buck (Zandra) Offline
trapper
Buck (Zandra)  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,492
Garden,Michigan
Originally Posted by henpecked1
BUCK,
Bill Nelson style was different than the eastern mentality at the time. Read what Craig says about him and the Nelson books, for example bigger patterns, longer chains, more swivels, more bait, more calls, these are all western concepts fro coyote and fox, eastern ( Butcher, Dailey, Rickard, Randall) was short chain (fox as there were not that many coyotes in the east), small pattern, little bit of bait, little bit of lure and urine. Each had its place in it environment. OGorman still works on the principles of Nelson, Lennon and Ehn and western govt trappers that came before him. Same with beaver, eastern trapping was number 4 jumps, western ADC beaver was a 114 or 4 41/2 newhouse. You have to do the research to see these differences, if you cannot see the style difference between the writtings then you are destined to continue as you are. You see both styles all over this web site, which create debate.

Bill Randal and Rickard used a number 2 Blake short chained to a brick. That was NYS back in 1920- 1930's.

Western (Griggs and Nelson) preached deep pocket sets, Eastern preached blind sets, mink could not be caught on bait.

I am a Magel student from the mid 80's, his style was 220's for rats, 220 for coon in trails, mouse nest for dirt holes, no bait or lure. He was ahead of his time on water trapping, now everyone uses 160's and 220's.

19 years in AZ/NM shifted me to mostly flat sets and call lures, thats OGorman and Nelson. No dirtholes as to many rocks.

Hope ur chains are tight an go trapping.
??????? I must have missed something


Buck(formely known as Zandra)
Re: charlie robbins [Re: TONY.F] #6566214
07/01/19 08:17 PM
07/01/19 08:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
trapper
Larry Baer  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
I wonder if Craig O'Gorman knew him? I think he did but I'm not sure. I like the set but can't always get '' white man '' dirt to do it in.

I have both Nelson books and they are pretty good. I have O'Gorman's books and videos, and Roy Kuykedall's book. They are all full of good information. I saw some examples of Robbin's dirtholes and few others over the years. Dick Atkins makes a good one too. He said his boss at the time came out with a drawing of the set he wanted him to use. It's in Dick's fox book. Dick said he used it and did real well trapping fox for bounty. Craig also put a drawing of it giving Dick Atkins credit for it in one of his update to Hoofbeats of a Wolfer.

There are a lot of good sets out there. Ed Schneider of Kansas Trapline Products does a real good job on is dirt hole sets. Ed has some videos on you tube showing how he does it.

Here's another idea for you. I have a mole run across one of the lanes on my place. The moles always dig it in the same spot across the lane. One day while turkey hunting I saw this spot where a fox dug the mole hole out. I don't know if he got the mole but he sure made a dandy dirthole set. All you would need to do is add the trap- one at the top hole and one at the bottom hole if you like.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

The best teachers for have been these guys, The bottom dirthole looks more like a coyote pup digging to me but the tracks were from a big red fox. Look where he put his feet. he had his back feet pretty far back from the hole. I bet the dirt was flying. After seeing this I messed around with it and caught coyotes with it. Most of them work well. Your going to get a coyote if he steps around enough at the set even if your trap is in a ''bad'' spot. Those little twerps are always digging up my hay field.

I like reading about those government trappers.

Major Bodicker is good too.

Some of these guys might not be around too long- you might want to go meat them and spend a little time with some of them. They like to talk trapping too- Larry


Last edited by Larry Baer; 07/01/19 08:17 PM.

Just passin through
Re: charlie robbins [Re: TONY.F] #6566433
07/02/19 08:18 AM
07/02/19 08:18 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 759
new york
H
henpecked1 Offline
trapper
henpecked1  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 759
new york
Great post Larry, a wealth of knowlege and wisdom, thanks for all the research. We need to keep the history alive. Again thank you.

Re: charlie robbins [Re: TONY.F] #6566462
07/02/19 09:25 AM
07/02/19 09:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Pomona, Ks
C
Cody Hendershot Offline
trapper
Cody Hendershot  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 21
Pomona, Ks
O’Gorman would be awesome to tag along with. I’d like to go up there and take instructions from him some day. Hoofbeats was a game changer for me. Ed Schneider is also another trapper I think a guy could gain some knowledge from. Both seem like very straight forward no BS guys.

Re: charlie robbins [Re: Cody Hendershot] #6566580
07/02/19 12:54 PM
07/02/19 12:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
Nebraska
WadeRyan Offline
trapper
WadeRyan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Cody Hendershot
O’Gorman would be awesome to tag along with. I’d like to go up there and take instructions from him some day. Hoofbeats was a game changer for me. Ed Schneider is also another trapper I think a guy could gain some knowledge from. Both seem like very straight forward no BS guys.

Ed spent two days on my line with me. The best money I’ve spent on trapping. He referenced O’gorman a number of times.


Follow me on YouTube if you’re bored

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ulx1woYMmCN3IPLB0wwFw


Re: charlie robbins [Re: TONY.F] #6566665
07/02/19 03:42 PM
07/02/19 03:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
trapper
Larry Baer  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Ed's an O'Gorman Student too. You should call Nancy and set something up. He only takes a limited number of people per summer and it fills up fast. Craig's a good guy. People say he brags and acts like a know it all. I liken Craig to the guy who shows up on the ski slope in ripped up carhart bibs - old skis and maybe a pole with some duct tape wrapped around it. You look at him and think either this guys is a genius or I gotta see this guy kill himself and then you find out he has all the moves to back it up. Lot of people on here are students of his.

If you want to go - you need to get on the list now. You can ask him all about any of those old timers. He has a very extensive library and will share it as he sees it. If you have some of his videos or books the instruction isn't much of a stretch but it is learning it from the real thing and it's nice to be able to ask questions - just like going with any other trappers. The country is a tough country. Those guys like Pud Long and George Good, Vern Dorn had it made in my opinion but it is a tough lonely country not made for everyone. If you get a flat you better have two spares in your truck. Craig said one guy out there asked his buddy how to get a road up to the top of a butte and his buddy said to tell O'Gorman there's a coyote up there. I think he probably drives more miles off road than on.

So did Mr. Robbins ever write a book or write an articles? I would like to know too.


Just passin through
Re: charlie robbins [Re: TONY.F] #6568473
07/05/19 03:04 PM
07/05/19 03:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline
trapper
LT GREY  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
Originally Posted by henpecked1
Tony the answers are buried in old magazines from like Fur Fish Game, Hunter Trader Trapper, Fur News, Trappers World. Midwest Trapper and other less popular magazines from the early 1900's to the mid 70's. There were many greats like EF Keith, Colvin, Walker, Berimen, Krammer, White and many govt coyote men out west that wrote just one or two articles and then fell off the map. You answers lie in research. A trapper like Roy Kuykedal (spelling) wrote a great book, try to find it. Others like Willey Carrol and Mel Hershberger are easier to find. The early OGorman catalogs gave a list of what he figured were some of the greats but there were many more. The history of our sport/hobby or profession is yours for the taking and sometimes its better to visit a pro and just let him talk about the history as opposed to going on the line and making a flat set. The some of the greats from the fur boom of the 70's like OGorman, Milligan, Weiland and Grawe are still around. Johnny Thorpe has moved on but there are still a few old sages around go find one and listen. I have talked to a lot of trappers that say they wish they had taken lessons from this or that trapper or remember a demo at a convention, it still not to late. Dont be one that wishes he had, be the one that says I did and now I can share and pass on the wisdom.


I have a lot of letters from E.F. Keith, when I was young. He wrote me quite often. 'Wiley' Carroll, same thing. I learned a lot from both.
Mel Hershberger and I had many conversations on trapping. He was a great friend of J.C. Conner, When he died, I bought almost all his lures from his son LaVern.
Roy Kuykendal , who was a government trapper in California taught me quite a bit about flat sets. I spent time out in California . I have his book, signed, same with Bud Hall of Iowa.
I stayed up at Ardell Grawe's place in the early 80's. I met some interesting characters while there.
Garold Weiland, who wrote the best $5 books on trapping, IMO, used to be on T-Man. I heard he passed away.

Re: charlie robbins [Re: LT GREY] #6570083
07/08/19 02:26 PM
07/08/19 02:26 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 759
new york
H
henpecked1 Offline
trapper
henpecked1  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 759
new york
LT GREY, wow have you been busy, I think EF Keth never got the credit on fox trapping that he deserves, he wrote some great articles in the 20's and 30's, he was quite a photographer as it was not cheap to take and develop pictures back then, back then very few articles had great pictures, he had great pictures of fox sets and mink sets on his line. You have some great wisdom in taking the time to write a letter and capturing the memories. I picked up some of Mels lures at an ATA when I first moved out there, great stuff. G. W. books were great also, I would take some time and travel the AZ/.NM border compairing his photos to the terrain, found a couple of spots he may have been in,same with Mel. Kinda hard to hide a mountain range or a cat factory. Ranchers know who has been around. Thanks for the info.

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