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Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6590693
08/08/19 12:33 PM
08/08/19 12:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369
N.C MO
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TONY.F Offline
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N.C MO
For the life of me im having troubles visualizing how the dog knot system works. I cant see how that small lump is going to hold a yote! Or is the long chain the key to it all similar to portable pockets? I had a coyote hound that could pump a 24" rebar stake on 20' of chain! It was constantly jumping getting a wave action in the chain.i'd love to find a easier alternative to cable stakes for mid season relocation! Im wore slick after pulling 100 wolf fang anchors


LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
Re: Dog knot [Re: TONY.F] #6590769
08/08/19 04:03 PM
08/08/19 04:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,355
SD
Boone Liane Offline
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Originally Posted by TONY.F
For the life of me im having troubles visualizing how the dog knot system works. I cant see how that small lump is going to hold a yote! Or is the long chain the key to it all similar to portable pockets? I had a coyote hound that could pump a 24" rebar stake on 20' of chain! It was constantly jumping getting a wave action in the chain.i'd love to find a easier alternative to cable stakes for mid season relocation! Im wore slick after pulling 100 wolf fang anchors


Cross stakes.

I have hard ground. I can get away with single stakes (on short chains even). I know a lot of ground you can’t.

Re: Dog knot [Re: Lazarus] #6590818
08/08/19 05:56 PM
08/08/19 05:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,256
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
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The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,256
Iowa
Originally Posted by TONY.F
For the life of me im having troubles visualizing how the dog knot system works. I cant see how that small lump is going to hold a yote! Or is the long chain the key to it all similar to portable pockets? I had a coyote hound that could pump a 24" rebar stake on 20' of chain! It was constantly jumping getting a wave action in the chain.i'd love to find a easier alternative to cable stakes for mid season relocation! Im wore slick after pulling 100 wolf fang anchors

Originally Posted by Lazarus
Larry makes a great point . . . and not to beat a dead horse, but the genius of the stake was that if you drove the stake in the ground and then pulled it out (i.e. you didn't make a catch), the stake usually comes out fairly easily. However, if you make a catch, the animal circling the stake drags dirt and small rocks down into the stake hole where they land on top of the "knot." it then acts like a disposable and its very hard to get out. Like Larry says, many a time I've seen a coyote with the stake half out of the ground but still well held because he'd tamped so much dirt and rock down on the knot that the stake wasn't coming out.

Also, on the long chain, the G men had that huge swivel, heavy chain and long chain for several reasons. One of them was that it helped pump the stake out of the ground without tools. If you hold the trap in one hand and "whip" the chain toward the stake, that 3 feet of chain will most times pop that stake right out of the ground.

While every staking system has its pros and cons, the old government 3N with a long, heavy chain, heavy swivels and a dog knot stake had a lot of advantages and stood the test of time for tens of thousands of coyotes.

Re: Dog knot [Re: ~ADC~] #6590845
08/08/19 06:54 PM
08/08/19 06:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,717
Maine
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Mac Offline
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I had always wanted a Dog Knot stake to have in my collection. This last year one of my coyote trapping buddies from out West sent me one! So cool.

In Tom Krause's books he talked in one section about how to produce a make shift dog knot stake. He claimed it worked pretty well.

Mac



Re: Dog knot [Re: Lazarus] #6590865
08/08/19 07:20 PM
08/08/19 07:20 PM
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N.C MO
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TONY.F Offline
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N.C MO
Originally Posted by Lazarus
The original.

[Linked Image]
Question is that whole stake drove in? Dragging chain down in the dirt as you drive it in? I trap mainly crop fields I can see that working if I have it pictured correctly. That set up shouldn't be hard to replicate. I see it failing misserabley in sandy conditions but hard clay it should hold tight!


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Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6590879
08/08/19 07:44 PM
08/08/19 07:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,930
E central Il
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Golf ball Offline OP
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E central Il
Tony that cold shut and washers are just sitting there, they will slide to the top once you pound in the stake . I personally wouldn’t try the single stake without the long chain. I’m also wondering if the cold shut or something similar is better than a crunch proof type swivel to keep from getting the ratcheting affect that you can get from the crunch proof.

Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6591024
08/08/19 11:07 PM
08/08/19 11:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,256
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
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Posts: 16,256
Iowa
Originally Posted by Golf ball
Tony that cold shut and washers are just sitting there, they will slide to the top once you pound in the stake . I personally wouldn’t try the single stake without the long chain. I’m also wondering if the cold shut or something similar is better than a crunch proof type swivel to keep from getting the ratcheting affect that you can get from the crunch proof.


I'm thinking a chestnut ring would be a great option to the cold shut. They wouldn't grab the stake like a swivel would. You could attach your trap swivel with a second J hook and keep good swiveling.

Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6591077
08/09/19 01:52 AM
08/09/19 01:52 AM
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N.C MO
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TONY.F Offline
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N.C MO
on portable pockets I use 5/8 smooth rod and 1" flat washers with a hole drilled in the washer to attach a j hook. Thanks don I thought those washers was floating. Now I don't understand why not just use re bar with the top few inchs smoothed down to help prevent pumping. I cant see that little knot creating enough friction to stop a determind yote


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Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6591129
08/09/19 07:42 AM
08/09/19 07:42 AM
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E central Il
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Golf ball Offline OP
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E central Il
Until now I’ve used 5/8” smooth rod also but last year I came across a hundred 1/2” rebar 20” to 24” long and decided to try a dozen this year . I started using pogo’s the year the FTA was in Illinois and have been using a Wolf fang since they came out. I don’t use more than a dozen and a half a year right now , but once I retire I don’t plan to pull a hundred cables a year . Stakes will be the way to go unless I’m in a likely area for theft .

Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6591216
08/09/19 10:05 AM
08/09/19 10:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
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Peoria County Illinois
Tony, The whole stake gets driven in but the cold shut slides up and down the stake so when it is driven in it is up at the top like a regular stake. I cut the two washers off mine and welded a large washer at the top so I could use the chestnut rings like ADC says. I do not keep them attached to my traps but a lot of guys do. Either way works fine.


Just passin through
Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6591283
08/09/19 12:18 PM
08/09/19 12:18 PM
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N.C MO
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TONY.F Offline
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N.C MO
Your guys god must be more powerful then mine Id never trust a single stake ! I've had coons runoff with dps from single stakesi got a bucket full of those R.R 16" giant lag bolts and welded a 2" helical on them as coon stakes. Should of went 4" then I believe they would be perminent


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Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6591482
08/09/19 06:08 PM
08/09/19 06:08 PM
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Posts: 6,672
lea co new mexico
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wayne52 Offline
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1/2 inch pipe cut in 1/2/ peaces.
slide over 1/2 rebar up 5 inchs weld in place
Thats what I make


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Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6591528
08/09/19 07:06 PM
08/09/19 07:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
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mainer Offline
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Maine
Think of it like a shallow disposable that you forgot to tug on to engage it horizontally. In sandy soils the dog knot performs a similar function, except that it (the knot) requires the catch to engage it through long chains that pump the stake while at the same time compacting the soil as it reaches a certain point for the knot to perform the same horizontal function as an engaged disposable stake. In fact, it's the same principle but the right soil conditions are needed for it to be effective in the same way.

Rebar as a single stake doesn't have that same advantages because there's nothing to grab the soil in the same way. However, above the ground it has too much to grab, which is why the smooth rod is an advantage. You want the chestnut or lap link to be at ground level keeping the angle of attack or pull at 90 degrees to the ground so the knot can do its work.


"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6592111
08/10/19 05:53 PM
08/10/19 05:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,672
lea co new mexico
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wayne52 Offline
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After you drive a dog knot of any kind make sure you cave in the dirt around the stake


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Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6592273
08/10/19 09:44 PM
08/10/19 09:44 PM
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E central Il
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Golf ball Offline OP
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E central Il
How you been you old New Mexican ? That sounds like a pretty easy way to make them Wayne, thanks .

Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6592395
08/11/19 07:57 AM
08/11/19 07:57 AM
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Posts: 9,729
Northern Illinois
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MChewk Offline
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Northern Illinois
I believe Wayne's method is similar to JC Conner's ...just a welded lug of metal to create more ground contact...makes it more difficult to pull.

Re: Dog knot [Re: ~ADC~] #6592654
08/11/19 05:29 PM
08/11/19 05:29 PM
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Central NC
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traprjohn Offline
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Originally Posted by ~ADC~

I'm thinking a chestnut ring would be a great option to the cold shut. They wouldn't grab the stake like a swivel would. You could attach your trap swivel with a second J hook and keep good swiveling.


THAT is how my customers have had me make them


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Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6592729
08/11/19 07:10 PM
08/11/19 07:10 PM
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E central Il
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This brings up another question, ADC did you ever find an easy way to put a point on rebar stakes ?

Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6592736
08/11/19 07:30 PM
08/11/19 07:30 PM
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montana
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red mt Offline
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montana
Has anybody did like I'm sure they did in the day by drawing a point out by using a forge or a torch hammering the point out???


Kenneth schoening
Re: Dog knot [Re: Golf ball] #6592740
08/11/19 07:39 PM
08/11/19 07:39 PM
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lea co new mexico
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wayne52 Offline
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Goof ball we are good here buddy
Trip hammer is how they were pointed


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