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Characteristics of good lure #6615257
09/12/19 01:11 PM
09/12/19 01:11 PM
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Nevadafornia
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Lazarus Offline OP
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Lazarus  Offline OP
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Everyone loves a good lure. Trappers are addicted to the notion that a lure is essential to their success; indeed, some feel that a good lure has an overpowering effect on a critter, leading the animal to the set like Pied Piper and his rats. And in a highly competitive lure-making environment, the advertising language of some lure makers doesn't do anything to help discourage the notion that lure has magical qualities and is the most important part of trapline success. Claims like "this one will put the paw on the pan," or "animals can't resist it," are so much puffery because lures don't put paws on pans (proper set construction does that). A quality lure is definitely a valuable assets -- as is good location, proper equipment, an understanding of the animal and its habits, etc. But what is a lure really supposed to do? I like how Russ Carman discussed it in his lure making book. Russ said a lure has two functions. One is an attraction of the animal to the set area, and the other is what he called "source attraction." This second function is where the animal attempts to locate the source of the smell, not just be generally attracted to its odor. Canines have a high source attraction component -- they have to locate the source of every smell, it seems. Cats, on the other hand, smell lots of odors but are too lazy, indifferent, disinterested or whatever, to actually seek out the source of every odor they smell.

So what are the elements of a good lure, be it commercial or home made? Here is my list. Feel free to chime in with your own.

1. The lure is properly aged. This means it has not only had enough time to combine and mellow all the odors in the lure, all of the decay and gasses have expired. A great way to test whether a lure is aged properly or not is to open it on a hot day -- like over 100 degrees. If you get a lot of pressure escaping when you crack the lid (or worse, you can see fluid running down the sides of the container before you open it), the lure hasn't finished "working" yet. One of the best examples of a lure maker who understands this principle is Wayne Derrick. I've used a lot of Wayne's stuff and his reputation as a quality lure maker is outstanding. This summer I bought a couple pints of lure from Wayne at the NTA Western Regional held in Hel l Hole, AZ. OK, maybe that wasn't the place, but you could see if from there. Anyway, I put the lure in the back of my pickup on a 100+ degree day and left it in the direct sun all day. When I checked it that evening I thought for sure those lure bottles would be leaking or busted wide open. Nope. Wayne had properly aged the ingredients and when I cracked the lids, I didn't even get so much as a burp out of them.

2. The lure is properly blended. This doesn't mean just stirred up, it means all the ingredients have blended together to achieve the desired result. Not that stirring isn't important. I still remember my treasured visit to Bob Jameson's lure making facility a few years back. I was amazed at the time and machinery that Bob devoted to properly stirring and mixing ingredients. It was an eye opener. Proper blending also means all the ingredients have had ample time and the right conditions to mix and work together. How many times have you picked up a lure bottle and noticed half the ingredients are at the bottom of the jar, and the other half is a liquid at the top of the jar? In order to get the best use of the lure, you have to shake it. I have a habit of shaking every lure bottle before I use it but sometimes I get in a rush and crack the jar, dip a stick in it, and realize I'm only getting the thin fluid at the top of the container. Now, this doesn't mean its a bad lure or that the maker used less-than quality ingredients (although they may have). Some ingredients are just a pain to blend. The most obvious example is an oil based material and a water based material. Sometimes the manufacturer can use a binder like Lecithin to get the proper blending, and sometimes not (depending on the make up of that particular lure). Just one example from a well known commercial lure-- Carman's Canine Call. I love this lure and its a proven lure, but it separates with the solids drifting to the bottom of the jar and a lighter, amber fluid at the top. Give it a quick shake and you are good to go. Obviously I don't know what's in the lure, but I trust Russ Carman enough to know that if anyone could make that lure not separate without detracting from its odor or makeup, then Russ would have done it.

On the other hand, many gland lures are bad for this trait. If the gland lure is heavy on urine and short on glands, then the gland part of the lure sinks to the bottom and the urine rises to the top. You can often tell how much of your lure is really gland and how much is just urine, but letting the bottle sit for a while and holding it up to a light. Not that urine is bad, its just that I prefer a gland lure to be that -- a lure made of glands, not pee with some glands in it.


3. The lure has a proper ratio of the ingredients to achieve the desired result. This one is a bit harder to explain. Obviously my sense of smell is not nearly as keen as a wild animal's sense of smell, but sometimes I smell a lure and all I can smell is one ingredient. Lures heavy with castor or skunk are famous with this. This goes back to point #2. Castor often "takes over" a lure and dominates other ingredients. Again, I recognize there are other, more subtle smells that I may not be able to detect so I'm not offended if I smell one odor making a dominant claim on the lure, but I sure want to know that there is something else in the lure bottle as well. This is complicated because some lures use a dominant odor as a carrier for lesser odors. The most common example is skunk. An LDC lure may use skunk as a carrier, but will have more subtle odors like weasel, mink, castor or whatever that is carried along with the skunk with the idea that a predator can smell the skunk at long distances and at some point is able to detect these more subtle "source attraction" odors and close the distance. Novice lure makers get attached to the idea that the secret lure formula is so much of ingredient A and so much of ingredient B. Period. There is a lot more to it than just the quantity of the ingredient. Some ingredients need to age or blend by themselves before being added to formulation; other ingredients operate in a synergistic fashion where they become something greater in combination than the individual ingredients can be by themselves.

In addition, good lures need to operate in all sorts of weather (generally), so the proper ratio of ingredients also includes things like freeze proofing, evaporation, and so forth. Going back to the gland lure discussion. A coyote gland lure will probably be used more heavily in spring and summer, so it should be formulated with ingredients that help fight rain and sun, since these conditions are more likely to be present when the lure is used. Martin and wolverine lures are most likely to be used in extreme cold weather so they need to be built accordingly. You get the idea. This leads to my 4th and last point.

4. The lure has been properly tested. I think I could write a book on this part. Proper testing, to some lure makers means "I sent samples out to X number of trappers and they all caught stuff with it." Well, that's not proper testing. I submit that few lures are ever thoroughly tested. I hasten to add that it doesn't mean they aren't great lures. But real testing means presenting the lure to the intended target animal and being able to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) the target animal's reaction to the lure under a variety of real life environmental factors. The fact that people catch animals on a given lure is only part of the equation. Let me give you an example. There was a cat trapper in my state named Scott Byrd. He regularly, either alone or with partner(s), caught triple digit numbers of western bobcats on public land. As I got to know Scott, I learned his method was a "blind" walk through set with an exposed trap. When I asked about his favorite lure, he said he usually didn't use any lure. In fact, he said something like "last winter I caught over 100 cats and I think I used less than 4 ounces of lure."

Now, what if the manufacturer of that 4 ounces of lure posted a picture of Scott with his 100+ bobcats with a caption like "Scott only uses our lure." I guess the statement would be accurate, but it wouldn't tell the whole story. Scott was going to catch all those cats with or without the lure, so the fact that a trapper catches animals with a given lure doesn't necessarily mean is a quality lure. Conversely, if a trapper made poor sets in poor locations, the lure maker would be the first to point out that his lure can't overcome all of the other deficiencies of a poor trapper.

Proper testing includes different climates, different locations, different skill levels of trappers, and above all, some way to measure or assess the animal's attraction to the lure. Russ Carman's book has at least one chapter devoted to proper lure testing. Really. Its in there. You just never read it because you were in a hurry to copy down the lure formulas!!!! Russ relied heavily on snow to tell the story of how animals reacted to lures. If you don't have snow, then sand is probably the next best indicator. My preferred method is a trail camera set on video mode so I can see for myself what the animal's reaction to the lure is. Its true that some animals have an adverse reaction to infrared lights and display some nervousness about a camera but I've found even spooky coyotes will come to a lure when no trap is present if given enough time.

To their credit, I have had a number of commercial lure makers send me a host of lures to try in front of trail cameras and give them feedback. I love the cameras because I can send the lure maker the video and describe the lure and the conditions in which it was used. The lure maker can see for himself the animal's reaction.

OK, those are the thoughts of a rank amateur lure dabbler/tester. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.


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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615426
09/12/19 06:25 PM
09/12/19 06:25 PM
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yukonal Offline
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Wow Tracy, that's a heck of a read. I think you should start making/selling lure!

I have made quite a bit of bait, and have success with it. Last year, I made a pretty good sized batch of...lure. For the first time.

When I was a tad, in the late 70's, I sent away to the MN DNR for their trapping packet. In it (among other info) was several recipes for different lures. And they were the real deal. One of them fit my style...a curiosity/grab type lure. After I got done making it, aging it, and giving it time to settle, it smells exactly like one of Waynes lures, that I have purchased from him. I won't say which one.

Lots of testing, and it works great for canines up here. When I need a change up, or run into a digger, I smear it on a T-Bone, and by the time they are done licking it off...they are wearing a new bracelet.

Just a short story to let you know I have gone thru all the steps to make sure it would work, and if the effort gets put in, it does.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615670
09/12/19 10:49 PM
09/12/19 10:49 PM
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AZ
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gotya Offline
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Awesome read! Printing this one!

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615672
09/12/19 10:54 PM
09/12/19 10:54 PM
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Bloomer, WI
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Adam Potaczek Offline
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Bloomer, WI
A good lure keeps the animal at the set longer working the set making the chance of getting caught higher. So I wouldn't say a lure can't put paws on the pans but of course the set is just as important. I agree there are key factors that make a good lure but I have seen some crudely made and mixed lures so I guess what works is right in a sense.

I like a thick gland lure myself but urine and glands go together like bread and butter. I have no problem with a heavy on the urine gland lure. The odors blend well and the urine is what carries the gland odor. Shaking the lure before using mixes it well and even.

Your right on #3 . I would just add that the blending of odors and compatible odors is just as important as the ratio. Dominant odors are common in good lures you should have overtones and undertones and like you said the animals can pick lures apart better than we can.

There are a lot of angles on lures and the making of them which makes it an interesting and fun topic.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615689
09/12/19 11:34 PM
09/12/19 11:34 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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I have no idea what it takes to be a good lure but the animals will tell me when I test it. And to be honest they don't know if it's properly aged or blended, has the proper ratio of ingredients, or where else it's been tested or by whom.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615696
09/12/19 11:39 PM
09/12/19 11:39 PM
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TONY.F Offline
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Wow tracy way to make a guy think! I seriously doubt any closet lure/bait makers will ever go thru all the motions the pros do! My self included, Im continent with the half a dozen always reliable ones I make! The rest I buy! Makes me wonder of all the pros im sure they all got there one favorite concoction that always produces!. Russ also states in his book a poor trapper will never make a decent lure/bait maker .I wasn't offended by that but it was a tad harsh! Although I can see his point, if nothing else to lite a fire under some guys rears!

The whole separation topic is one of the hardest to combat! I've tried several things but certain oils want to separate regardless. Personally ive all but gave up adding oils to my glands! Over all texture is very important to me I want a lure that smears and stays. In my eyes a lure that drys up and flakes away isn't going to cut it! This is more leaning towards cat specific lures. If my yote attractants haven't shown signs of interest with in 5 days. Im questioning my location first and fore most! Certain bases are a gimme on yotes. If I got a good base and no interest location is always the first question in the equasion. And yes I will at times set on questionable locations just to satisfy my curiosity!

In the end its all about learning the capabilitys of a scent. Sure it might cost me a few hides! But id feel better nowing im not just tossing stink around with no ryhm or reason. Testing is and can be as challenging as actual trapping.. I love the videos you and a couple others post on critters reactions to new smells! I find that as intriguing as or more then a catch pic! My all time favorites are animals working a real set and getting caught robbing the pantry! I'm glad you cleared the air on cameras that flash! I've had very bad results using them! Sure I can get a pic but then its game over my next ones will be of the animal just at the edge of the pic and barely visible! I feared I was doing more harm then good so they never got deployed again! Dang shame got 10 trail cams collecting dust! This is a great topic hope others give their opinion


LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615736
09/13/19 06:23 AM
09/13/19 06:23 AM
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Mass
TDHP Offline
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Quote
what it takes to be a good lure but the animals will tell me when I test it.


All that matters^^. I don't believe in a "professional bait or lure" . Good porcelain read, still don't know how a good lure that works for someone else but not for you could still be "good" because it's properly aged and the ingredient ratio is on the money. If the bait or lure isn't getting the reactions as intended what gives?


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615743
09/13/19 06:46 AM
09/13/19 06:46 AM
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nunya,ks
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tbn Offline
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nunya,ks
I think it is all hocus pocus to begin with. Who needs a lure to catch coon,rats,beaver,mink,etc? Number 2, there aren't any secret hocus pocus will catch every one that walks buy ingredients. Silver vine was suppose to be the cats meow last year,well??? There is an angle to make a sale when we read these things. Always an incentive or angle,always.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615745
09/13/19 06:49 AM
09/13/19 06:49 AM
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nunya,ks
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tbn Offline
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Almost forgot, I am going to dump a truck load of sweets in a well used pasture,then 100 yds down dump meat,dead calves,deer,etc. to show which gets cleaned up faster come December.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615882
09/13/19 10:37 AM
09/13/19 10:37 AM
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Maine
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mainer Offline
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Great post, Tracy! I see a book in your future.... wink


"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6615885
09/13/19 10:42 AM
09/13/19 10:42 AM
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Misery
Michael Morris Offline
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Michael Morris  Offline
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Misery
Great post Tracy. There's a lot of very helpful information there if people are willing to listen.

I struggle with the blending portion of lure making, always have an idea of what I want them to smell like, rarely comes out that way, but I have had decent success getting video responses to the lures. Testsing can be difficult as well, little things can ruin weeks of hanging cameras, not trimming weeds or branches can kill batteries quick, improper set up can show improper reactions, I remember a rub rock set up I used, the coyotes were rubbing the lure aggressively, but Wayne was quick to point out, if a taller rock had been used, their feet would of been on the ground more. If I had done that, I would of been able to study foot movement and placement better. Little details, but the little details make big differences.

When I 1st started testing lures with cameras, I was only concerned about getting critters on camera. Will this lure bring them front and center? I didn't give much thought to what I wanted to happen after that, I do now. I take more care with attractor placement, lure application, camera placement, very important to hide it for coyotes imo, and line of camera sight. Just messing up one of those things can wastes weeks, and give unusable footage. Simple stuff, but it helps.

Appreciate the post Tracy.


A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: mainer] #6615887
09/13/19 10:42 AM
09/13/19 10:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,998
Misery
Michael Morris Offline
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Originally Posted by mainer
Great post, Tracy! I see a book in your future.... wink


No books, DVDs please grin


A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6616049
09/13/19 02:09 PM
09/13/19 02:09 PM
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Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
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turkn8rtrapper Online content
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Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
Great read. As a novice it provokes much thought. I appreciate you taking the time to put those thoughts together and writing them down for others to see and ponder.


"Skin that smokewagon and see what happens"
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6616283
09/13/19 07:16 PM
09/13/19 07:16 PM
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Mass
TDHP Offline
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TDHP  Offline
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So if you make a bait or lure and get the reactions you wanted on "purpose" and do it consistently who determines whether or not that product is good? I have many hours of videos and pics of animals displaying reactions which I intended for the target animal to display in front of bait and lure. Would that bait and lure be considered good because it's doing exactly what it was designed to do and doing so for many others throughout the year? I'm not understanding what and who determines this or is it because a bottle of funk is supposed to smell like X, Y and Z? Does the maker have to have 30 years in a bottle to know how to properly mix ingredients? If someone solely depends on bait and lure to save their day, they are only hurting themselves. Easy to put something in front of an animal, but does the individual have the smarts to "properly" set themselves up to give them the best odds in successfully trapping that animal? You've hit on all of this, but I'm not convinced that any one person could be the judge of a product especially if the product doesn't produce for them. At the end of the rack bait and lure imo are made for convenience for the trapper to eliminate the investment in time and money.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

If you put lure on an object expecting that animal to rub, then that animal should rub on it. How does one know that the product is mixed properly? That mean it's a good lure?
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

If you want that animal to dig, then it should dig and keep digging. How does one know if the ratios are proper?
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Expected "footwork" at the "set", then that animal should display the intended reactions.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6616690
09/14/19 11:46 AM
09/14/19 11:46 AM
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Southern Michigan
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trappergbus Offline
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Great thread Tracey.. When I first got serious the lure makers used a term, " every passing animal " and I believed it. Never has been and never will be such a magic potion, bait or lure. A lure that gets attention in September may not have a bit of interest in Late November. Consistent attraction and reaction is what we all want when fur is prime.

I've tested new stuff from a few well knowns for years. It takes a lot of time and more than one season over various terrain and weather conditions before on the actual trapline to judge performance. Also it's the only time I make just one set at a location is with a new test lure urine or bait. Reason being, the other sets and attractors may alter the response to the test in most situations. Just because a yote walks by a set doesn't mean the attractors doesn't attract, lots of other variables we don't see or realize. We are not coyotes!


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6616694
09/14/19 11:47 AM
09/14/19 11:47 AM
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10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
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When you guys get it figured out let me know as I am considering maybe making a bait or lure or two......and maybe some new ones...just funning...Tracy , that was a good share and you have made more than one good bait/ lure....always enjoy your informative posts.....

Last edited by Cletis Richards; 09/14/19 03:07 PM.

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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Cletis Richards] #6616733
09/14/19 12:49 PM
09/14/19 12:49 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by Cletis Richards
When you guys get it figured out let me know as I am considering maybe making a bait or lure or two......and maybe some new ones

I would listen if you shared some of your thoughts

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Yes sir] #6616811
09/14/19 03:09 PM
09/14/19 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Originally Posted by Cletis Richards
When you guys get it figured out let me know as I am considering maybe making a bait or lure or two......and maybe some new ones

I would listen if you shared some of your thoughts
I am still learning, matter of fact was in a lure making class that Gary Jepson held this summer...lot to absorb.


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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6617289
09/14/19 11:25 PM
09/14/19 11:25 PM
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Vernal, Utah, USA
Dan Barnhurst Offline
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Great post Tracey. Thought provoking. I know I need to put a lot more thought into what lure I use, how I use it and what response I'm striving for (searching for source, nose on lure, dig, rub, excite to make him want to urinate etc.. ).


Sneak the pan under his paw!
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: tbn] #6618335
09/16/19 11:46 AM
09/16/19 11:46 AM
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Doug66 Offline
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Originally Posted by tbn
I think it is all hocus pocus to begin with. Who needs a lure to catch coon,rats,beaver,mink,etc? Number 2, there aren't any secret hocus pocus will catch every one that walks buy ingredients. Silver vine was suppose to be the cats meow last year,well??? There is an angle to make a sale when we read these things. Always an incentive or angle,always.


I have some secret Hocus Pocus.
grin

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