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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6624557
09/25/19 07:15 AM
09/25/19 07:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
I buy very little lure and no bait.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6628312
09/29/19 10:35 AM
09/29/19 10:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
The problem I see is for new trappers to wade thru all the BS to get good solid info and get a good solid foundation to start with. The trappers that have been at it a while see thru it but the new guys get totally confused. All it really takes is good common sense. Ardell was spot on, still only a handful of makers out their with the knowledge to make good stuff, he still is one. If the coyote market goes away so will most of the makers. There are very few lures that work for coyotes here every season, the lures that do I cherish.

Please keep posting Mac, Us old dudes need to keep sharing.
grin

Last edited by trappergbus; 09/29/19 10:36 AM.

Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6628367
09/29/19 11:56 AM
09/29/19 11:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 604
New York
P
ponyboy Offline
trapper
ponyboy  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 604
New York
#661525709/12/19 01:11 PM
Lazarus OfflineOP
trapper
L

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,117
Nevadafornia
Everyone loves a good lure. Trappers are addicted to the notion that a lure is essential to their success;

Very true statement. I'm GUILTY.
For most trappers the best part of a Trapper's Convention is walking into the building where all the lures and baits are. Smells like what? Heaven? Victory? Memories? Maybe the first time you went to the local fur buyers?

And women are addicted to the notion that some new perfume, shampoo,or lotion is essential to their success. And they have spent billions and billions on them from the beginning of time. What are they trying to catch?
You'll never stop women from buying attractants. It's as essential to their method of operation, as bait and lure is to a trapper. No matter if homemade lure and bait or store bought.

So, i don't begrudge a man for spending a few dollars on lure and bait. Or a few hundred.
It is a learning process buying lure and bait.
Experimenting, Setting traps,catching, testing ingredients, baits, lures,spending money,formulating, Time and experience will take care of itself.


Most if not all we learn and obtain from a life time of trapping and testing traps and lure will end up where our final destination is. The dust.

So try to help a new comer to the Trapping World. Consider becoming a State Instructor for gun, bow or trapping.There is a shortage of instructors. Maybe give a demo. The kid you help today may be the leader of tomorrow

Enjoy the day.

I enjoy reading every ones posts and the various opinions.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: trappergbus] #6628638
09/29/19 06:59 PM
09/29/19 06:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,781
Mi, Mecosta
A
ambush32 Offline
trapper
ambush32  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,781
Mi, Mecosta
Originally Posted by trappergbus
The problem I see is for new trappers to wade thru all the BS to get good solid info and get a good solid foundation to start with. The trappers that have been at it a while see thru it but the new guys get totally confused. All it really takes is good common sense. Ardell was spot on, still only a handful of makers out their with the knowledge to make good stuff, he still is one. If the coyote market goes away so will most of the makers. There are very few lures that work for coyotes here every season, the lures that do I cherish.

Please keep posting Mac, Us old dudes need to keep sharing.
grin



Good stuff
Can you clue us(me)I’m on the good makers sir.

Thanks


Thought I was a good trapper until I started trapping coyotes......
Thought I was a good bowhunter until I targeted mature bucks....
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6629161
09/30/19 10:37 AM
09/30/19 10:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447
Monroeville NJ
J
Jonesie Offline
trapper
Jonesie  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447
Monroeville NJ
As I sit here reading the 3 pages of posts, and now expecting it to go to 6 lol, my thoughts are many. First, the starting post was a good read. Do I agree with everything said? Nope, but the post forced thought, at least for folks who are open to hearing other thoughts. One thing I tend to see and guilty myself is, we as a whole tend to lock in on what we think and reject anything that is different than what we are thinking. For me when I get this way it is a pride issue. And I try to look at it differently. I can’t speak for anyone else. We all have thoughts and do what we like.
I am a call maker and go to many shows peddling calls. At one show a somewhat opinionated (nicest word I can say but thinking stronger) duck hunter came to the table picked up a call, and I will tell you, he made it sound like something out of a horror movie!!!! There were a few folks around the booth with the same look on their faces as I had. He takes the call, tosses it on the table and said JUNK!!!! LOL, I reach down to pick up the call, and yes blew it right after he did with him and everyone else watching. It sang flawlessly. My son was there so I hand him the call without saying a word, he takes it and again sings like an instrument. I again take the call without a word and hand it to one more person I knew could make a call WORK, and he does the same thing. Someone I didn’t know that was watching and most likely as annoyed at this person as I was, looked at him and said, looks like you need to learn how to blow a duck call.
There is no such thing as a bait or lure that will work for everyone or every situation. But if the person Really wants that product to work, they will find the situation and the locations it does work, and the same when and where it doesn’t work.
I am sure there may be a few snake oil salesmen out there. But I have not met a bait and lure maker yet, in the trapping, deer scent or fishing scent arena that is willing to take a product, put their name on it and spend the time and money to put it out on the market knowing it does not work in the situations that they have tested it and use it. Yes, there are some products that work better in more places and work better with folks that do not understand, YES. But I can take anyone’s products and make them not work and take that same product and make it work if I spend the time to figure that product out. And Yes, just like the duck hunter I told you about, (Who by the way was a comp caller for another call company lol) there will be folks that will make a product not work on purpose.
The obvious to an experienced trapper, yet we never talk about, but know, without the right location, population, proper set for the location, set construction, trap selection and trap placement the catch rates will not be there. If we do not have the above, I at least expect less than desired results. When we have all the above, we use the bait/lure as a tool to aid us, to make our job easier. We do not think of it as a magic flute. Just a tool to fill in the gap. The newer trapper who does not understand the above only thinks method and Baits/lures because that is what we the experienced mostly talk about.
Whether we like it or not, marketing is a part of sales. And who is going to even look at a product that the manufacturer does not talk positively about? My son and I just finished an outdoors show this weekend. Deer scents were our main products being sold with predator calls and waterfowl calls also. Now If I do not talk positively about my deer scents, then who will look at them let alone buy them. I make products to sell so I can b pay my bills. But on every new person looking at my products, I take the time to tell and show (I have a little spot set up to show how) them exactly to use them, how when to use them and why to use them. I can tell you which folks will be back next year to buy the products again and tell you who will not just from that conversation. The same is true from trapping conventions. Take a look at the deer scent marketing, and trapping marketing is a lot more honest than the high dollar deer scent industry. And both waterfowl call and deer scent competitors they will stab in the back, cut the throat and stomp each other in the mud. My son said to me last night I wish these folks could be like trappers so much more fun to do a show. In closing LOL, For all of you out there saying that your products are the best, you are mistaking because mine is LOL


Ron Jones
http://www.acpwildlifepro.net/
Rednecks Pride Game Calls / Outdoor Scents
Rednecks Pride Outdoors podcast
Friend me on FaceBook
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6629466
09/30/19 05:43 PM
09/30/19 05:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,672
lea co new mexico
W
wayne52 Offline
Crusty "Old" Wolfer
wayne52  Offline
Crusty "Old" Wolfer
W

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,672
lea co new mexico
I YI YI


God didn't say it would be easy. He just said it would be.

www.derricks-nm.com

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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: wayne52] #6629498
09/30/19 06:32 PM
09/30/19 06:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,691
Nevadafornia
L
Lazarus Offline OP
trapper
Lazarus  Offline OP
trapper
L

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,691
Nevadafornia
Originally Posted by wayne52
I YI YI


There you have it folks. :-)

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6629521
09/30/19 07:02 PM
09/30/19 07:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,063
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,063
Marion Kansas
Is that a secret ingredient or just what it sounds like when you find a good one? smile I was hoping Mr Derrick would throw us peons a crumb of wisdom.

I was in the shower and the thought that this post could be taken out of context as sarcasm which was not its intent. I respect any information Mr Derrick would share. Just wanted to make that clear in case anyone was wondering.

Last edited by Yes sir; 09/30/19 11:58 PM.
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6630167
10/01/19 02:01 PM
10/01/19 02:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,672
lea co new mexico
W
wayne52 Offline
Crusty "Old" Wolfer
wayne52  Offline
Crusty "Old" Wolfer
W

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,672
lea co new mexico
A good as good as you can get base is as important as anything you add. The base needs to be atractive to an animal. Some makers might not agree be for me that is the starting point. Then build on that
After you have been after it awhile you get to where you know what works with what. I brake all the rules just to see why some things will not work with what ever.
Get the best of everything you can. Be it musk ,glands ,oils even the best mixer or blender or grinder. When I started the best I could get was a used blender and a hand grinder.
Have fun and welcome to a new addction


God didn't say it would be easy. He just said it would be.

www.derricks-nm.com

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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: trappergbus] #6630178
10/01/19 02:19 PM
10/01/19 02:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,222
MN
Y
yukonal Offline
trapper
yukonal  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,222
MN
Originally Posted by trappergbus
The problem I see is for new trappers to wade thru all the BS to get good solid info and get a good solid foundation to start with. The trappers that have been at it a while see thru it but the new guys get totally confused. All it really takes is good common sense. Ardell was spot on, still only a handful of makers out their with the knowledge to make good stuff, he still is one. If the coyote market goes away so will most of the makers. There are very few lures that work for coyotes here every season, the lures that do I cherish.


Great post Gary. Hit the nail on the head.

I have done a lot (too much) of experimenting over the last 5 years. I'm finally getting smart, and simplifying my lure selection. I know what works, and am going to just use that. No more looking for the magic bullet.

If I'm using Caven's or Derrics, and they are working...I could use Dobbins or Lennon's...and they would work, too. But, I'm just going to use 2 or 3, instead of 6. And I made 5 gallons of bait that the K9's love where I trap, and that will last me until I'm done trapping. I think. shocked

Simple...couple lures that work, a bait that works all season, done. KISS...

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: yukonal] #6631010
10/02/19 01:06 PM
10/02/19 01:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
I can't do it, I gotta have at least 3 glands and 6 more food/curiosity and a few new ones, IMA addict, LOL.. The key is put it where they'll fall on it.. and learning the animal.

Last edited by trappergbus; 10/02/19 01:08 PM.

Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: trappergbus] #6631098
10/02/19 02:59 PM
10/02/19 02:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,222
MN
Y
yukonal Offline
trapper
yukonal  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,222
MN
Originally Posted by trappergbus
The key is put it where they'll fall on it.


There it is, right there. Dam near anything will get 'em stomping around a little, if it's put where they want to be.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6631557
10/02/19 11:39 PM
10/02/19 11:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
M
mainer Offline
trapper
mainer  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
A large part of the romance and mystic of trapping is captured in lures. I'm like trappergbus. I love trying out new stuff. I love smelling baits and lure. I get excited when I smell a skunk. Trapping wouldn't be the same for me if all I did was make blind sets. I prefer to hang on to some of the enchantment I felt as a kid, cracking open a bottle of lure and wondering what made that smell so wonderful.


"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6659538
11/07/19 11:25 AM
11/07/19 11:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,172
10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
C
Cletis Richards Offline
trapper
Cletis Richards  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,172
10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
Inferiority complex...….where one degrades others accomplishments to make theirs seem greater...….With that said there is a lot of good stuff out there


Appleroad Predator Bait

www.appleroadlures.com

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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6659600
11/07/19 12:47 PM
11/07/19 12:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
There are a whole lot more baits and lures for sale that I have not tried than those I have. Some of the stuff I have bought was mediocre and some worthless. Most worked and a couple really worked. I spent a little time working on a bait that is probably really a lure and I use it a lot. I buy a couple lures. I collected urine and still have a cage for it. When I figured out how sorry what I had been buying urine wise was I didn't think I would ever buy any again. I have changed my mind on that but it is a sure enough certainty that a lot of junk pee is being sold.

I think a description of a great lure is pretty simple. 90% or more of the target animals that find it should respond. At least by putting their nose right on it for a second or two. Most of them should stay there, sniffing rubbing and moving their feet around. If its in a hole k9's should stick their nose right down in the hole. Try to dig it out. Rub their head on it, pee defecate etc.

The word marketing is often used when a product is being lied about. I believe it is possible to market without lying and lots of people do market with truth. Lots "market" with lies also.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: danny clifton] #6659678
11/07/19 02:19 PM
11/07/19 02:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,172
10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
C
Cletis Richards Offline
trapper
Cletis Richards  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,172
10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
Originally Posted by danny clifton
There are a whole lot more baits and lures for sale that I have not tried than those I have. Some of the stuff I have bought was mediocre and some worthless. Most worked and a couple really worked. I spent a little time working on a bait that is probably really a lure and I use it a lot. I buy a couple lures. I collected urine and still have a cage for it. When I figured out how sorry what I had been buying urine wise was I didn't think I would ever buy any again. I have changed my mind on that but it is a sure enough certainty that a lot of junk pee is being sold.

I think a description of a great lure is pretty simple. 90% or more of the target animals that find it should respond. At least by putting their nose right on it for a second or two. Most of them should stay there, sniffing rubbing and moving their feet around. If its in a hole k9's should stick their nose right down in the hole. Try to dig it out. Rub their head on it, pee defecate etc.

The word marketing is often used when a product is being lied about. I believe it is possible to market without lying and lots of people do market with truth. Lots "market" with lies also.



Yep! What Danny said


Appleroad Predator Bait

www.appleroadlures.com

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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Cletis Richards] #6660204
11/08/19 08:02 AM
11/08/19 08:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
Originally Posted by Cletis Richards
Inferiority complex...….where one degrades others accomplishments to make theirs seem greater...….With that said there is a lot of good stuff out there

I see that a lot Cletus, makes me ill. Not you but others. Good stuff sells itself without all the BS and all the negativity. I have a lot of negative stories from past experiences with some big names in the past, but I don't go there. In the end they'll get bit wink


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6674575
11/24/19 07:25 PM
11/24/19 07:25 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Mac my friend, you are correct. TMan used to be a much different place to share knowledge, with the goal being to share and share alike. I share lure and bait formulating help, but not on an open forum of any sort.

Wayne, a man with the experience of many years, is spot on: A base is where a lure starts most often. Baits too.

I've always wondered why us lure makers get along pretty darned good, and why those who don't make lures commercially are the opinionated? I always say howdy to Wayne, John G., Bob J., Tom M., and a host of lure makers at the shows. We know the effort goes into each bottle
laugh

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6674911
11/25/19 05:17 AM
11/25/19 05:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks

There sure enough was some heated debate among some good trappers that dont post here anymore


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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