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Dye/rust. #6634776
10/07/19 03:20 PM
10/07/19 03:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Lancaster county PA
C
crabtrap Offline OP
trapper
crabtrap  Offline OP
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Lancaster county PA
I just dyed some new traps and a few old ones yesterday with logwood like i do every year. Hung em up in a tree and Over night it rained and they got really rusty. Never had this happen before what did i do worng?


Work harder millions on welfare are depending on you
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6634795
10/07/19 03:49 PM
10/07/19 03:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 437
Western Illinois
#
#11 Offline
trapper
#11  Offline
trapper
#

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 437
Western Illinois
Which ones got really rusty, the new ones, the old ones or all of them.

Re: Dye/rust. [Re: #11] #6634825
10/07/19 04:43 PM
10/07/19 04:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Lancaster county PA
C
crabtrap Offline OP
trapper
crabtrap  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Lancaster county PA
They all did.


Work harder millions on welfare are depending on you
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6634827
10/07/19 04:45 PM
10/07/19 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,966
St. Louis Co, Mo
B
BigBob Offline
trapper
BigBob  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,966
St. Louis Co, Mo
Did you wax them?


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: BigBob] #6634840
10/07/19 05:12 PM
10/07/19 05:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Lancaster county PA
C
crabtrap Offline OP
trapper
crabtrap  Offline OP
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Lancaster county PA
No


Work harder millions on welfare are depending on you
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6634847
10/07/19 05:20 PM
10/07/19 05:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 691
Saltlake city utah
S
Steelflight Offline
trapper
Steelflight  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 691
Saltlake city utah
The dye doesn't protect from the elements. As far as I know


You may think before you act. The question is did you listen to your own council?
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6634850
10/07/19 05:24 PM
10/07/19 05:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,547
NC, Orange Co.
QuietButDeadly Offline
trapper
QuietButDeadly  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,547
NC, Orange Co.
If there was not a good coat of rust on the surface when you dyed them, there was nothing for the tannin in the dye to convert and create a barrier to keep water off the steel and cause rust. Just because they change color does not mean they are protected.

The purpose of the logwood dye is to react with the iron oxide (rust), converting it to iron tannate, a stable blue/black surface coating to prevent the reaction of the steel with water that will form more rust.

For some reason, the process you used did not create the iron tannate coating.

Lots of things could have caused that.


Life Member: NCTA, VTA, NTA, TTFHA, MFTI
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Re: Dye/rust. [Re: QuietButDeadly] #6634877
10/07/19 06:16 PM
10/07/19 06:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 68
Northeast Kingdom VT
T
TomInVT Offline
trapper
TomInVT  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 68
Northeast Kingdom VT
Originally Posted by QuietButDeadly
If there was not a good coat of rust on the surface when you dyed them, there was nothing for the tannin in the dye to convert and create a barrier to keep water off the steel and cause rust. Just because they change color does not mean they are protected.

The purpose of the logwood dye is to react with the iron oxide (rust), converting it to iron tannate, a stable blue/black surface coating to prevent the reaction of the steel with water that will form more rust.

For some reason, the process you used did not create the iron tannate coating.

Lots of things could have caused that.


I was wondering exactly how dye helped protect the metal. Thanks for the explanation.

Last edited by TomInAZ; 10/07/19 06:17 PM.
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6637950
10/12/19 12:29 AM
10/12/19 12:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
Does dip interact similar to steel as dye does?

Last edited by AJE; 10/12/19 12:30 AM.
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: AJE] #6637988
10/12/19 06:20 AM
10/12/19 06:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
T
tjm Offline
trapper
tjm  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
Originally Posted by AJE
Does dip interact similar to steel as dye does?

No. Dip is paint of a sort, it coats over the rust and hides it. Various types of dip resemble fence paint made by the same company or driveway sealer, or floor wax but all act as an overcoat.

Two things that I know of that convert rust are tannin and phosphoric acid. Given enough time the rust itself can form a protective coating as in weathering steel used in construction. You can see this on old farm equipment sometimes called a patina.

I bought some red powder a few years ago that was labeled 'trap dye' and rather than react with the rust like tannin it turned the traps black but kinda gritty and when hit with water it had removed all the rust like an acid such as vinegar might, Those traps rusted again over night, twas the only time I ever used red powder.

Re: Dye/rust. [Re: Steelflight] #6637995
10/12/19 06:30 AM
10/12/19 06:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
T
tjm Offline
trapper
tjm  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
Originally Posted by Steelflight
The dye doesn't protect from the elements. As far as I know

If the rust conversion is heavy enough and complete enough it does. But any area that was not rusty won't get the conversion coating and will still be open to new rust, and any area that gets the coating knocked off will rust new. Think of this conversion like Parkerizing a gun. Bluing or browning of a gun is an example of rust forming the protective coating, both are forms of controlled rusting.

Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6638180
10/12/19 12:06 PM
10/12/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
For the transfer to happen there must be heat , I boil em hard for 1/2 hour to promote the transfer and sterilize the trap. Then rinse when removed from the dye water, hang over night to dry then wax in pure wax. I used Renno's dye this year, pretty impressed. A good dye will protect the steel to a point, wax takes the moisture right out of the equation. For rust to occur their needs to be bare steel, air and water. Take one away no rust can happen.


No such thing as impervious low odor trap coating, it all wears off after catches. More so in sand and gravel.

Last edited by trappergbus; 10/12/19 12:07 PM.

Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6717090
01/05/20 01:32 AM
01/05/20 01:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
I think wax is the key.

Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6717397
01/05/20 12:22 PM
01/05/20 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
After 2 catches all your coating will be wore off End of story.

Put a dyed only trap In the ground and tell me after a week or so how much protection It gives that trap.
Wax only will give you the most protection for the money.

I powder coat my canine traps. It's expensive but It holds up for years. Power wash today set traps tomorrow.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: The Beav] #6717457
01/05/20 01:39 PM
01/05/20 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 172
Indiana
B
Backbreaker Offline
trapper
Backbreaker  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 172
Indiana
Originally Posted by The Beav
After 2 catches all your coating will be wore off End of story.

Put a dyed only trap In the ground and tell me after a week or so how much protection It gives that trap.
Wax only will give you the most protection for the money.

I powder coat my canine traps. It's expensive but It holds up for years. Power wash today set traps tomorrow.

What is powder coat?

Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6717479
01/05/20 02:00 PM
01/05/20 02:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
It's a coating that's electrically Induced to the steel.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6717798
01/05/20 08:00 PM
01/05/20 08:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 112
Republic of CO
Cootswatter Offline
trapper
Cootswatter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 112
Republic of CO
How much wear from catches with the powder coating? Sounds like a great idea.


"I've come to chew bubble gum and to kick ars, and I'm all out of bubble gum." - Rowdy Roddy Piper - They Live
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6717809
01/05/20 08:12 PM
01/05/20 08:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
I'll be a bit of a contrarian to The Beav but not in defense of rust and dye. Abrasion will wear away powder coating and it chips quite easily. Not saying it isn't a good finish but it's not bulletproof, either.

Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6717849
01/05/20 08:50 PM
01/05/20 08:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
So far I haven't had any Issues with chipping and abrasion has yet to become a problem you just don't get much If any movement from a coyote locked up In well set up trap. You do get scratches and bite marks but they are very minimal. Those scratches down to bare metal will rust but It's so minimal It's not an issue.
Ease of clean up Is what makes It One of the best trap coatings.

And there Is a liquid that you can use to touch up those scratches.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Dye/rust. [Re: crabtrap] #6717935
01/05/20 10:13 PM
01/05/20 10:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
I really like Duke DP's, but their powder coating wears off quickly. I don't know if Beav does his own powder coating, but I think his powder coating holds better.

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