Dye/rust.
#6634776
10/07/19 03:20 PM
10/07/19 03:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148 Lancaster county PA
crabtrap
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Lancaster county PA
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I just dyed some new traps and a few old ones yesterday with logwood like i do every year. Hung em up in a tree and Over night it rained and they got really rusty. Never had this happen before what did i do worng?
Work harder millions on welfare are depending on you
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: crabtrap]
#6634847
10/07/19 05:20 PM
10/07/19 05:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 691 Saltlake city utah
Steelflight
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trapper
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Posts: 691
Saltlake city utah
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The dye doesn't protect from the elements. As far as I know
You may think before you act. The question is did you listen to your own council?
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: crabtrap]
#6634850
10/07/19 05:24 PM
10/07/19 05:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,589 NC, Orange Co.
QuietButDeadly
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,589
NC, Orange Co.
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If there was not a good coat of rust on the surface when you dyed them, there was nothing for the tannin in the dye to convert and create a barrier to keep water off the steel and cause rust. Just because they change color does not mean they are protected.
The purpose of the logwood dye is to react with the iron oxide (rust), converting it to iron tannate, a stable blue/black surface coating to prevent the reaction of the steel with water that will form more rust.
For some reason, the process you used did not create the iron tannate coating.
Lots of things could have caused that.
Life Member: NCTA, VTA, NTA, TTFHA, MFTI Member: FTA NRA NWTF
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: QuietButDeadly]
#6634877
10/07/19 06:16 PM
10/07/19 06:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 68 Northeast Kingdom VT
TomInVT
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Northeast Kingdom VT
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If there was not a good coat of rust on the surface when you dyed them, there was nothing for the tannin in the dye to convert and create a barrier to keep water off the steel and cause rust. Just because they change color does not mean they are protected.
The purpose of the logwood dye is to react with the iron oxide (rust), converting it to iron tannate, a stable blue/black surface coating to prevent the reaction of the steel with water that will form more rust.
For some reason, the process you used did not create the iron tannate coating.
Lots of things could have caused that. I was wondering exactly how dye helped protect the metal. Thanks for the explanation.
Last edited by TomInAZ; 10/07/19 06:17 PM.
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: crabtrap]
#6637950
10/12/19 12:29 AM
10/12/19 12:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,094 WI - Wisconsin
AJE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,094
WI - Wisconsin
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Does dip interact similar to steel as dye does?
Last edited by AJE; 10/12/19 12:30 AM.
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: AJE]
#6637988
10/12/19 06:20 AM
10/12/19 06:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
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Does dip interact similar to steel as dye does? No. Dip is paint of a sort, it coats over the rust and hides it. Various types of dip resemble fence paint made by the same company or driveway sealer, or floor wax but all act as an overcoat. Two things that I know of that convert rust are tannin and phosphoric acid. Given enough time the rust itself can form a protective coating as in weathering steel used in construction. You can see this on old farm equipment sometimes called a patina. I bought some red powder a few years ago that was labeled 'trap dye' and rather than react with the rust like tannin it turned the traps black but kinda gritty and when hit with water it had removed all the rust like an acid such as vinegar might, Those traps rusted again over night, twas the only time I ever used red powder.
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: Steelflight]
#6637995
10/12/19 06:30 AM
10/12/19 06:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
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SWMo.
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The dye doesn't protect from the elements. As far as I know If the rust conversion is heavy enough and complete enough it does. But any area that was not rusty won't get the conversion coating and will still be open to new rust, and any area that gets the coating knocked off will rust new. Think of this conversion like Parkerizing a gun. Bluing or browning of a gun is an example of rust forming the protective coating, both are forms of controlled rusting.
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: crabtrap]
#6638180
10/12/19 12:06 PM
10/12/19 12:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445 Southern Michigan
trappergbus
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Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
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For the transfer to happen there must be heat , I boil em hard for 1/2 hour to promote the transfer and sterilize the trap. Then rinse when removed from the dye water, hang over night to dry then wax in pure wax. I used Renno's dye this year, pretty impressed. A good dye will protect the steel to a point, wax takes the moisture right out of the equation. For rust to occur their needs to be bare steel, air and water. Take one away no rust can happen.
No such thing as impervious low odor trap coating, it all wears off after catches. More so in sand and gravel.
Last edited by trappergbus; 10/12/19 12:07 PM.
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: crabtrap]
#6717397
01/05/20 12:22 PM
01/05/20 12:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,842 Wisconsin
The Beav
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trapper
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Posts: 23,842
Wisconsin
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After 2 catches all your coating will be wore off End of story.
Put a dyed only trap In the ground and tell me after a week or so how much protection It gives that trap. Wax only will give you the most protection for the money.
I powder coat my canine traps. It's expensive but It holds up for years. Power wash today set traps tomorrow.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: The Beav]
#6717457
01/05/20 01:39 PM
01/05/20 01:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 172 Indiana
Backbreaker
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Posts: 172
Indiana
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After 2 catches all your coating will be wore off End of story.
Put a dyed only trap In the ground and tell me after a week or so how much protection It gives that trap. Wax only will give you the most protection for the money.
I powder coat my canine traps. It's expensive but It holds up for years. Power wash today set traps tomorrow. What is powder coat?
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: crabtrap]
#6717479
01/05/20 02:00 PM
01/05/20 02:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,842 Wisconsin
The Beav
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trapper
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Posts: 23,842
Wisconsin
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It's a coating that's electrically Induced to the steel.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: crabtrap]
#6717798
01/05/20 08:00 PM
01/05/20 08:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 112 Republic of CO
Cootswatter
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Posts: 112
Republic of CO
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How much wear from catches with the powder coating? Sounds like a great idea.
"I've come to chew bubble gum and to kick ars, and I'm all out of bubble gum." - Rowdy Roddy Piper - They Live
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Re: Dye/rust.
[Re: crabtrap]
#6717849
01/05/20 08:50 PM
01/05/20 08:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,842 Wisconsin
The Beav
trapper
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trapper
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Posts: 23,842
Wisconsin
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So far I haven't had any Issues with chipping and abrasion has yet to become a problem you just don't get much If any movement from a coyote locked up In well set up trap. You do get scratches and bite marks but they are very minimal. Those scratches down to bare metal will rust but It's so minimal It's not an issue. Ease of clean up Is what makes It One of the best trap coatings.
And there Is a liquid that you can use to touch up those scratches.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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