All of them.

The consensus among the powers that be and those who know all things is:

We are all gonna die.

We wrangle with:

Which expert to believe.

As a scientist myself, I knew the money injection into the research arena (among other topics) drastically changed the outcome of research in a mighty way back in the '60's. Those Woodstock hippies all grew up, put nice clothes on, got a govt grant, and milked their own versions of a cow. And now with more money from their cow, that we all feed daily, they have over our lifetime risen to positions within the govt whereby they can mandate who/what/when/why/no/no/no.

Most trappers, more than most perhaps, are independent folk. We don't mind a lone day by our lonesome. But we are a social being, and I'm sorry to say my created heart, mind, and soul tell me to my core that all this is serious, but fake at the same time. The schemes of men once again. Wear a mask or don't wear a mask. A SARS virus doesn't care because they are virtually ineffective. Stay 6 feet away or don't. SARS doesn't care. Virology isn't even being considered in all this as we created humans are a plethora of pathogens and viruses in our immune makeup that protects us from all around us. My skin and my own immune system is part of my creation and not supposed to be isolated from it. If you've poured out a bottle of lure or scooped out bait, I can't explain to you how many crappy bugs are in it. MANY! Why didn't you die? Because your immune system is working nicely as it was designed to!

Some must heed the pathogen. The vast majority shouldn't and I wouldn't heed the advice of "experts" who don't follow their own advice. Tell ya what, when I see Fauci tell me to wear a mask (ineffective) and stay 6 foot away (ineffective) and wash my hands (ineffective) and he wears a mask (he doesn't) and stay 6 foot away (he isn't) and wash his hands (he's touching everything in sight)....

then I still won't do it.

signed,
one of His sheep

Blessings y'all
Mark

This is the real bottom line. If we all cower in fear indefinitely in our homes we could probably get that number down below 190,000! So we have learned that by giving up our lives we can reduce the number of deaths.

If YouTube would stop (censoring) taking videos down, there’s some really interesting information coming out of New York. Nursing staff trying to get the proper staff in to care for people and management essentially saying “oh well.” Like they want more deaths in their hospitals, why? They have plenty of well trained staff ready to help but they aren’t being utilized.

A nurse that’s never ran a dialysis machine before “learning on the fly” when there’s a nurse on the floor that’s used it before. She begged for antibiotics for a patient that had s/s of pneumonia but no fever. No intervention till too late. She watched a nurse fall asleep at the nurses station that was supposed to be titrating norepinephrine to keep up the patient’s BP, and the blood pressure tanked essentially leaving the patient brain dead. She said there’s definitely a racial disparity with African American patients receiving less than quality care (she’s Caucasian). She was a traveler from over 500 miles away and there to help. What do you suppose happened when she spoke up?

There’s plenty more like her that have posted videos of the mismanagement of patients in New York. They’ve all been “let go.” If they’re in such a mess of patients and being overwhelmed why would you let nurses that are experts in critical care go because they’re advocating for patients?

The good news for those of you that are worried about your health is you seem to be in areas where medicine is being practiced appropriately. There’s 90 year olds beating the virus with little more than a fever. So you’ve got a running head start at 70.

Mark June, I’ve been one to point out that we are all going to die at some point and hiding in your home isn’t going to stop that. That’s got me a label of being selfish, murderer, and only focused on myself in past posts.

look at the northern pa/ny line and number of cases in ny vrsus pa.

2 or 3 cases in the pa counties and 50-100 in the counrties 5 miles away.ny is takin this for all its worth.

Did you really just do a round about of telling us you critically care what someone else thinks or calls you?

No Hobby. I don’t make a living selling lure to trappers off this site though! I feel pretty good about where I’m at. Was more so just a heads up for Mark. I can assure you I lose no sleep over someone’s opinion of me over the internet.

Over the past three years I've probably made close to 400 videos for youtube, and I've had more then one occasion to interact with them. So with that being said, I'd say if you want to know how to change the brakes on your car or wonder what others think about a product you're thinking of buying, youtube can be a great place to get info. But if you want to know about Covid 19, global warming, or anything about a political candidate, youtube is the last place I'd go. Youtube's policies have gotten to the point they take down videos for almost no reason. If you posted a video showing death from a hurricane they may take it down over a violation of their policies.

I think this leads to conspiracy theories about why certain videos are removed. It may be felt the video was taken down because it gave a side of the story on Covid 19 they don't want shown. But in fact just talking too much about death can get a video taken down. I paint fishing lures, and once had the term paint gun in the title. The word gun got the video flagged. There's a fishing lure called the sexy shad, yep sexy got the video flagged. So youtube has taught me just because a video is removed or flagged it doesn't really mean much.

Now on to the point of the youtube video, I do believe there was a lot of mismanagement in New York, but I've felt most of the mismanagement decisions did not come from the medical field. Sending positive patients back to nursing homes and other bad decisions came from the top either the governor or the mayor. I'm not sure if they got bad advice from their experts, so they didn't listen to their experts, but some bad decisions were made.

I've also felt New York is really a good example of why Covid 19 is not the same as the flu. In our very worst flu seasons have we ever seen hospitals so overrun with patients. Is the mortality rate going to be about the same as the flu, it very well might be. Are the majority dying old and with underlying conditions, yes probably. But the way New York and other big cities got overrun so bad, clearly shows Covid 19 is not the same as the flu.

That being said, it is time to open up for the sake of the economy. New York didn't flatten the curve enough so it had a tough time and maybe some people died that didn't need to. But it also showed us for the most part we can open up and still keep up with the cases and we don't have to overload the hospitals. Unfortunately we're still going to have some states stay locked down when they don't have to. These states are not using data from their hospitals to make their decision, data that shows they can handle the cases if they open. They are basing their decision of fear they may make the wrong decision and what people will say about them.

Wade,

I sorta have no idea what to infer from your posts. I'm not judging at this end. I'm just commenting as others do on a comment style forum. I do make a living off trapping though. Can't tell from the wordsmithing in your post if you prefer people who make a living in trapping not to post on a trapping forum? Perhaps you could point us to a better website for what we do and say?

My point in my earlier post was;

We trappers handle bottles of goo and smelly stuff and actually take the caps/lids off and 'snnnnniiiifffffffff' them to see how we like 'em. Talk about germs!
Our immune system must be more robust than the sedentary Americans IMO.

Mark,
I agree with your earlier post. I was simply pointing out it might not be well received here. Nothing more, nothing less.

I prefer my kids go out and eat dirt. I feel like they’ll have a less complicated life if they let their body do what it’s designed to do.

Understood. That's what I figured.
My point was science, once considered the new gospel of truth, is sadly laced too much and too often with too many individuals who cook the books to show what they knew all along (this is called bias).

I wish it wasn't so - then perhaps we could make the best choices based on solid news.
Instead we sort of bicker.

I'm just going to do what my folks always told me to do. Go outside and play.

Hunter,
I can only imagine on the YouTube. Most of them seem to be posting there because Facebook won’t allow it. She did talk a whole lot about death. Most of her issues seemed to be with the medical professionals managing the floors. How they were staffing and how they didn’t seem to be open to discussion on how to make more patients survive.

The take home message from her and other nurses at certain hospitals in New York was that people were dying that shouldn’t be due to decisions made by hospital management. No one knows exactly where those orders are coming from but they are coming from somewhere.

I simply find it interesting New York is used in a lot of arguments regarding how dangerous the virus itself is when the more these videos come out it appears deaths could have been prevented.

Maybe it would help if the director of the CDC were a wildlife manager. Then he would understand that you manage for the species, not the individual.

Agreed. That was kind of the whole point of this post. The CDC is one of the most cited organizations with the Covid-19. Unfortunately, I’ve cited them plenty of times in the past and even now it’s becoming apparent they have “cooked the books,” I like that it’s got a ring to it.

I just finished research myself and I could have made the numbers go just about anyway I wanted them to go if I had an agenda. Luckily, I just presented my research with my unbiased findings. I spent a month completing the actual study last October. It was a real eye opener for just how biased some research is as I was completing my literature reviews.

The science from China, that I took as gospel 2 months ago, was that this virus will most likely not kill healthy people. That has not changed, correct?

I was a researcher in my grad studies in the early 1980's and my grad chair told me straight up to give the teaching profs what they wanted so that I could graduate. I was studying the intra-species transmutability of invertebrates. Short for.... I was always in the muck getting squirmy things. I worked with two other grad students. Our research was not done as much as some might think.... "research" to figure out something. Nope. It was research to graduate. And most important VERIFY what others believed.

I learned this in those post-hippie days of university research.
Take it all with a bag of salt.
Money leads the noses of the masses.

"I ain't gonna work on Maggie's Farm no more....NO MORE!"

When it comes to youtube, facebook, or any of the other internet sites like that, I rarely believe what I've seen or read without going somewhere else to verify.

For me New York shows us what might have happened in many other cities if we hadn't done what we did with social distancing and some limited closings.Again I've always felt some states went way too far.But why the mismanagement in New York, why did it happen. You mentioned hospital management, and I think that is correct, but correct in that sometimes they were being told what to do. Sending positive patients back to nursing homes came from the state level. Now you have to ask yourself why.

Were they overloaded so they needed to move them back? Well they never used the Navy ship or the Javits Center they opened to treat people, so were they really that overloaded. It was bad there, but not bad enough they needed thousands of beds that were brought in to help them out. So why send positive people back to the worst possible place you could send them, to a nursing home.

I don't have an answer for that one, but a person can make a guess. Panic could be one, the fear the hospital was going to get overloaded so they wanted to move them out to make room. Of course you have to wonder why they didn't just move them to the Navy ship or the Javits Center that never had very many if any people in them. Could it be to avoid adverse publicity. The death numbers are going up, and that's bad publicity. If nursing home patients go back to the nursing home and die, will they really be called Covid 19 patients then or will their deaths total up differently since they didn't die in the hospital. I believe it was just yesterday that NY had to add a bunch of numbers from nursing homes that somehow hadn't made the total.

I guess I look at numbers today and don't think a whole lot about them because they are going to change, and the numbers won't mean that much until you look back on this much later. It's like trying to comment on the reasons a team loses a football game when it's only half time. Sometimes it's best to wait till the dust clears before making a judgement.

I’ve asked myself why plenty of times and money seems to be the driving force.

control and a battle for it is all i see