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Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6961801
08/12/20 06:27 AM
08/12/20 06:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Port Republic South Jersey
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Newt Offline
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How much Magnetic field is in a wire fence ?
How about a broken off plow shear or disk burryed in a frield?

How much is in a snare ?


Many have followed my tracks
Aint been no one that could fill my shoes
NEWT -----------------OVER----------------









www.snareone.com
Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Newt] #6961805
08/12/20 06:45 AM
08/12/20 06:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 4,025
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by Newt
How much Magnetic field is in a wire fence ?
How about a broken off plow shear or disk burryed in a frield?

How much is in a snare ?

here is another scenario for you.
If you lived in town and you saw footprints in fresh snow walking down the sidewalk would it alarm you?
If those footprints walked from the sidewalk to your vehicle parked in your driveway,then around it, then to your house, around it and stopping at every window and door would it send up yellow flags?
So are you alarmed when you see footprints in the snow?

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6961811
08/12/20 06:52 AM
08/12/20 06:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 4,025
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
Had one coyote dig up a bedded trap that had the springs deactivated and carry it off 30 yds, and by the sign left, played with it for some time. Was he cautious of when it was buried but curious when he uncovered it? Possible in my opinion. Out of 15 test sets I've yet to have one bed dug at that i made and repacked without a trap in it.

Last edited by Yes sir; 08/12/20 06:54 AM.
Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Yes sir] #6961822
08/12/20 07:03 AM
08/12/20 07:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,181
Nebraska
WadeRyan Offline
trapper
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Nebraska
Originally Posted by Yes sir
Had one coyote dig up a bedded trap that had the springs deactivated and carry it off 30 yds, and by the sign left, played with it for some time. Was he cautious of when it was buried but curious when he uncovered it? Possible in my opinion. Out of 15 test sets I've yet to have one bed dug at that i made and repacked without a trap in it.

I mean logic tells me obviously they know thereís a trap there. Anyone that thinks they can disguise the scent of a trap when a dog can smell a dead body weeks after itís been there is kidding themselves. Iíll be the devils advocate. Canít the coyote just smell the metal of the trap and have nothing to do with a magnetic field?


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Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: WadeRyan] #6961838
08/12/20 07:13 AM
08/12/20 07:13 AM
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Posts: 4,025
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by WadeRyan
Originally Posted by Yes sir
Had one coyote dig up a bedded trap that had the springs deactivated and carry it off 30 yds, and by the sign left, played with it for some time. Was he cautious of when it was buried but curious when he uncovered it? Possible in my opinion. Out of 15 test sets I've yet to have one bed dug at that i made and repacked without a trap in it.

I mean logic tells me obviously they know thereís a trap there. Anyone that thinks they can disguise the scent of a trap when a dog can smell a dead body weeks after itís been there is kidding themselves. Iíll be the devils advocate. Canít the coyote just smell the metal of the trap and have nothing to do with a magnetic field?

From testing so far it is a possibility. I do not have the information from testing to lead me to speculate on how it detects its there.

Last edited by Yes sir; 08/12/20 07:35 AM.
Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Yes sir] #6961873
08/12/20 07:57 AM
08/12/20 07:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,449
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Its not hard to test the affects of a bedded trap in front of a dirt hole.
Two holes about 1 1/2' apart, the best bait you have that makes them dig and stand back and watch what happens(i did dig a trap bed on the hole without a trap and packed it just like I would with a trap). I've put out 15 sets like this and will do another 15 hopefully in the next month or so when it cools down a little. Ive put in over 300 test sets without a trap and it seemed obvious that coyotes were much more comfortable working a set without a bedded trap than with a bedded trap present.


A good test may be to make a set and bed a non-ferrous metal item in a trap bed. Then make another set with nothing but dirt in the bed and see if there's any adverse reaction to the bedded non-ferrous metal. You could also do the test of a set with a trap bed containing a non-ferrous metal item in it and a bedded trap in a set next to that one.



Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6961966
08/12/20 10:16 AM
08/12/20 10:16 AM
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Posts: 4,025
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by Paul Dobbins
Originally Posted by Yes sir
Its not hard to test the affects of a bedded trap in front of a dirt hole.
Two holes about 1 1/2' apart, the best bait you have that makes them dig and stand back and watch what happens(i did dig a trap bed on the hole without a trap and packed it just like I would with a trap). I've put out 15 sets like this and will do another 15 hopefully in the next month or so when it cools down a little. Ive put in over 300 test sets without a trap and it seemed obvious that coyotes were much more comfortable working a set without a bedded trap than with a bedded trap present.


A good test may be to make a set and bed a non-ferrous metal item in a trap bed. Then make another set with nothing but dirt in the bed and see if there's any adverse reaction to the bedded non-ferrous metal. You could also do the test of a set with a trap bed containing a non-ferrous metal item in it and a bedded trap in a set next to that one.

Good idea. I told myself I'd do 30 the first way to get a large enough for a sample to feel confident in any pattern I was seeing then move forward from there depending on my findings. I wish I was smart enough to find a way to lower the magnetic field of a regular trap to next to nothing so that all variables were the exact same except the magnetic fields.

Last edited by Yes sir; 08/12/20 10:18 AM.
Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Huntall76] #6961977
08/12/20 10:27 AM
08/12/20 10:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,714
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Swamp Wolf Offline
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South Ga - Almost Florida
Originally Posted by Huntall76
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
Kirk's book on this topic is not about selling a solution to the magnetic field vs traps phenomenon. Its an in-depth explanation about what he has discovered. You, the trapper, after reading the book, can make your own decisions or any changes to your equipment.

Kirk is the most critical thinker I've ever met. Where most of us just shrug off thoughts or ideas Kirk breaks em down and expands on em.

Btw, he has killed mind-boggling numbers of beaver and otter. And engineered several models of the slickest mechanical, spring-loaded door cage traps made.



You mean after BUYING his book and reading you can make your decisions on equipment, like I said earlier he's only posting on this subject to sell his book and since he started another thread on this subject I can only assume they are not selling. As for all the animals he has trapped , I don't see anyone arguing that but it's not like other trappers in this country haven't caught as Many or more then him without worrying about magnetic fields.

No...thats not what I mean. His book explains what he's researched and found. For those interested, reading his research will save time in learning about the topic...same as with any methods book.

Kirk has shared a lot of trapping info on Tman over the years.

I dont recall seeing Huntall76 sharing any useable trapping knowledge...correct me if I'm wrong.


Thank God For Your Blessings!

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: BvrRetriever] #6962032
08/12/20 11:35 AM
08/12/20 11:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 789
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
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Nebraska
Originally Posted by BvrRetriever
I think Kirk deserves credit for killing Ďmind-bogglingí numbers of beaver...period. That can happen with a tremendous work ethic and a good population.

However, Iíd like to play devilís advocate on the magnetic theory. Letís say an animal really has the ability to sense a magnetic field. At some point in itís life, it needs to have associated the intensified magnetic field with danger. In other words, even if it can detect a magnetic field, it has to have already had a near death experience around one in order to associate it with danger. I believe the vast majority of inexperienced animals fall to their first close encounter to a trap.

Iíll be the first to admit that Ďtrap shyí animals appear to have a sixth sense. But I think it is more an individual animalís disposition of being paranoid to new things in their environment. In most cases I believe this happens by a near miss experience but it is also possibly an inherited trait. I have a hard time believing that the majority population of any species associates a magnetic field with danger...even if they can detect the field.



You are correct in your assessment. It is a learned trait from close encounters. A lot of factors come into play for the field to matter in certain situations but having the knowledge may give you the edge with educated ones.

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #6962100
08/12/20 01:25 PM
08/12/20 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 4,025
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
Originally Posted by BvrRetriever
I think Kirk deserves credit for killing Ďmind-bogglingí numbers of beaver...period. That can happen with a tremendous work ethic and a good population.

However, Iíd like to play devilís advocate on the magnetic theory. Letís say an animal really has the ability to sense a magnetic field. At some point in itís life, it needs to have associated the intensified magnetic field with danger. In other words, even if it can detect a magnetic field, it has to have already had a near death experience around one in order to associate it with danger. I believe the vast majority of inexperienced animals fall to their first close encounter to a trap.

Iíll be the first to admit that Ďtrap shyí animals appear to have a sixth sense. But I think it is more an individual animalís disposition of being paranoid to new things in their environment. In most cases I believe this happens by a near miss experience but it is also possibly an inherited trait. I have a hard time believing that the majority population of any species associates a magnetic field with danger...even if they can detect the field.



You are correct in your assessment. It is a learned trait from close encounters. A lot of factors come into play for the field to matter in certain situations but having the knowledge may give you the edge with educated ones.

Coyotes are born with a strong sense of caution/ fear (just listen to the stories of the couple of guys on here who have or have had coyotes for pets), can be taught caution/ fear by their parents (ive read 2 different accounts of this from guys that spent their lifetime making a living controling coyotes) and can learn caution/ fear from first hand experiences.

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6962161
08/12/20 02:44 PM
08/12/20 02:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 789
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
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Posts: 789
Nebraska
I agree Yes sir. But from what I understand it's sill a learned trait from close encounters. So if the parents teach them it's still a learned trait. In my opinion, I don't think a lot of this is passed on to the pups unless coyotes are being pursued, controlled (trapped/snared) through the rearing season. Then they learn from the parents. But if they aren't being pursued through the rearing season there's not as many danger opportunities to pass on, so when they disperse they are vulnerable to sets.

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Swamp Wolf] #6962240
08/12/20 04:10 PM
08/12/20 04:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 706
Indiana
H
Huntall76 Offline
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Indiana
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
[quote=Huntall76][quote=Swamp Wolf]Kirk's book on this topic is not about selling a solution to the magnetic field vs traps phenomenon. Its an in-depth explanation about what he has discovered. You, the trapper, after reading the book, can make your own decisions or any changes to your equipment.

Kirk is the most critical thinker I've ever met. Where most of us just shrug off thoughts or ideas Kirk breaks em down and expands on em.

Btw, he has killed mind-boggling numbers of beaver and otter. And engineered
No...thats not what I mean. His book explains what he's researched and found. For those interested, reading his research will save time in learning about the topic...same as with any methods book.

Kirk has shared a lot of trapping info on Tman over the years.

I dont recall seeing Huntall76 sharing any useable trapping knowledge...correct me if I'm wrong.


You read all of my posts? I'm honored. Not once did I question his trapping ability or knowledge. Do I believe this magnetic field thing, no I do not. Do I believe he's plugging his book yes I do, and just because you don't think any of my post about trapping related subjects are knowledgeable doesn't bother me, it's your opinion, just like what I said is my opinion. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6962257
08/12/20 04:31 PM
08/12/20 04:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
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South Ga - Almost Florida
S
Swamp Wolf Offline
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You made remarks that Kirk was just selling his book and then put his information down because you dont believe it.

I see his posts as him putting information out what he has discovered.

You havent hurt my feelings as I dont recall anything you've posted on here to share trapping knowledge or ideas, but I may have overlooked it.

I mostly dont understand why someone would deride someone for presenting info on trapping.

I bet when the dirthole set was first presented...that guy was riduculed too.

Open minds......


Thank God For Your Blessings!

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6962269
08/12/20 04:50 PM
08/12/20 04:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,839
Port Republic South Jersey
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Newt Offline
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Port Republic South Jersey
Anyone ever try and make two set .1 without anything the first. Then put a magnet in the other


Many have followed my tracks
Aint been no one that could fill my shoes
NEWT -----------------OVER----------------









www.snareone.com
Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6962275
08/12/20 04:56 PM
08/12/20 04:56 PM
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Posts: 706
Indiana
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Huntall76 Offline
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Indiana
Ok. Won't open this thread again and good day to you sir.

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Newt] #6962325
08/12/20 05:51 PM
08/12/20 05:51 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by Newt
Anyone ever try and make two set .1 without anything the first. Then put a magnet in the other

I'll test few magnetics buried and see what happens.

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6965434
08/16/20 03:48 AM
08/16/20 03:48 AM
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Posts: 1,045
SE Iowa USA
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AKAjust Offline
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SE Iowa USA
So a beaver is going to tell the difference between a 330 and a fence posr magnetic field? There is so much iron junk laying around that the possibilities of an animal telling the difference is preposterous.
Even if the theory is correct.
just

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6965654
08/16/20 10:36 AM
08/16/20 10:36 AM
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Posts: 1,315
Monroeville NJ
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Jonesie Offline
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Monroeville NJ
Kirk knows I am not sold on this, But he also knows I will test the heck out of his theory to make it work. Yes make it work, not test to just see or test to prove it does not work!!!! If it works I learned something and can use. If it does not pan out Then I know I did every thing to see if it works and can say it does not work or it works in this situation and not in that one. And I still learned something. Not to help him, but in fact to help me in my business (I have this same mindset for testing new baits and lures or new products)

Animals do get trap shy and trap smart or as beav says in the case as foot traps. set shy and set smart. (there is a difference between shy and smart) In my business of ADC/Wildlife control I can see the reasons most times for refusal. and that is learned behavior. But some times I can see what I call inner caution and sometimes I cant tell you why that animal is behaving a certain way and refusing a trap or set. I can see these things mostly because I am dealing with an animal or family group on a daily basis and observing their actions and my customers are filling me in on what is going on when I am not there. But If fur trapping or doing ADC on a 1000 acres these behaviors will not be seen easily by me or the person trapping most likely.

Any one that has raised horses and cattle knows that the electric fence is a great tool to keep them in the pasture, but only after they learned that thing hurts when touched. We also have seen them smell the hot wire from an inch away and not touch it???????. And every one that uses electric fence knows that if the fence goes dead in time the cows and horses are pushing on the fence. Now I don't know if current is the same as EMF as far as emitting out from the metal? I don't know if they can smell it or see it or how they know it is hot and not hot but they do. So I can only assume that animals can detect EMF also.

Now here is where this ole redneck start to wonder, if animals will test the fence that hurt when touched on a regular basis and after when not hot will push on it, why would a animal refuse a magnetic field that I assume does not hurt at all and they learned no harm comes from it? And why would it have a negative effect on some animals yet others use it to migrate or as in the example of the fox that is more successful when pouncing mice on a certain magnetic direction orientation? As far as a foot traps maybe a EMF from the trap may cause a curiosity to dig it up?

I have been testing on cages. and snares that I am setting daily in the business and have some thoughts, I will be testing DP traps both standard set and advanced system, cages and snares this fur season to see if the critters that live in 1000 acres and very little EMF emissions react differently than the city critters that are use to EMF emitting from everything.


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Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Kirk De] #6965747
08/16/20 12:47 PM
08/16/20 12:47 PM
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Posts: 4,025
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
Jonesie

Here's something to think on...... take the same cattle that seem to be able to sense when the electric fence is off and get out fairly quickly, shut fence off and try to herd them through the fence. 99.9 % of the time you cant. Shut it off lower it to the ground and try to herd them over it, it can still be very challenging most of the time. Only explanation I can even touch on is the mind set of the animals in each situation influencing there reaction.

Cautious/ nervous/ alert animals can sometimes have completely different reactions to the same stimulus than they would during situations when they are at ease.

Only thing I really target or test on is coyotes most of the time and between whatever human scent, sometimes the unnatural situation of the set, the unfamiliarness of the odor or strength of odor, and probably a few other "yellow flags" we as humans can't see, I think a majority of coyotes come into a set with a cautios mind set.

If i ask you if you were scared of a gun you answer would totally be dependent on the situation.

Just some food for thought from a trapper that has more questions than answers

Re: Testing 330s for their magnetic field [Re: Jonesie] #6965947
08/16/20 05:28 PM
08/16/20 05:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,674
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline OP
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Georgia
Jonsie

In dealing with traps youíre not really measuring EMF. Youíre measuring the difference between the average induction of the earth and the changed it may make. If the induction increases thatís negative negative response it will get. If the induction decreases Itís a positive response.
In my book I donít talk about EMF until about the 3/4 end of the book. Thatís when I start relating it to humans and itís effects on humans and animals. I then go on to show how all forms of contamination radiation and other forms affects humans to cause cancer.
No where in the book do I refer to or talk about magnets or the word magnet.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
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http://www.townsendtraps.com
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