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Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: keets] #7232699
04/01/21 02:29 PM
04/01/21 02:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,323
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline
trapper
NonPCfed  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,323
se South Dakota
Do the we astern national forests also have these USDA trappers?? This seems to pop up now and then, and mostly about the WI NFs. The again, a lot more trapperman people from WI than say WY. I wonder if USDA tries to clear beavs out of Black Hills NF...? I have no idea.


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: NonPCfed] #7232701
04/01/21 02:33 PM
04/01/21 02:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,483
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
silkyplainscoyot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,483
Nebraska
Originally Posted by NonPCfed
Do the we astern national forests also have these USDA trappers?? This seems to pop up now and then, and mostly about the WI NFs. The again, a lot more trapperman people from WI than say WY. I wonder if USDA tries to clear beavs out of Black Hills NF...? I have no idea.



Only if they are asked or contracted to, otherwise no. There are many states and counties that don't even have or use the USDA program.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: keets] #7232727
04/01/21 03:22 PM
04/01/21 03:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,944
South metro, MN
C
Calvin Offline
trapper
Calvin  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,944
South metro, MN
USDA controls (and traps) wildlife throughout the year through contracts and complaints. Seasons mean nothing... Like most people doing damage control work.

Most control guys around here charge $300 per beaver. I've been yelled at for charging less.

Typical fur trappers, who never sit down and tally all expenses (and give them to the tax man) have no clue how much it's really costing them to trap. Once you start tallying expenses, only then do you realize how much it costs to run any business. Ever buy a new truck? They aint cheap. Neither is insurance, tires, etc. Traps are the cheapest part of running a trapline.

That said, my biggest pain in the butt is USDA beaver trappers locally. They are great at catching the cream of the crop and moving on, leaving my the old wise ones. If I find out the USDA was in before me and now I'm here to clean up the mess, the price triples. They like to lock up a lot of trapping ground through contracts as well.

However, the best way to really learn how to become a better trapper is trap right next to someone better than you.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: keets] #7232736
04/01/21 03:33 PM
04/01/21 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
Or trap behind the ones that screwed everything up.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #7232803
04/01/21 06:06 PM
04/01/21 06:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
K
Kelly Offline
trapper
Kelly  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
Sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about, silky plains coyote. Government entities in Wisconsin, including the State, County and Townships are required by State law to open bids to the public when taxpayer funds are used. But since they consider this a “service”, they seem to think that requirement of open bids is not necessary. Besides USDA is just another government entity so it’s very easy for one government entity to reach an agreement for another government entity to do a job for the other.


Enjoy Mother Nature's Glory, everyday!

Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible!

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: keets] #7232807
04/01/21 06:13 PM
04/01/21 06:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
K
Kelly Offline
trapper
Kelly  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
Furthermore USDA in WI doesn’t have to abide by the same rules as trappers in WI have to adhere to.


Enjoy Mother Nature's Glory, everyday!

Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible!

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: Kelly] #7232809
04/01/21 06:17 PM
04/01/21 06:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,292
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,292
East-Central Wisconsin
I am not familiar with the way APHIS/USDA does their beaver removal bids, but did work with the USDA/APHIS on agriculture damage issues, mostly starling control. The APHIS program for Ag needed to cover the cost of the program or work done. The program for ag was not subsidized by other USDA funds. As stated above may well be best to contact the townships or counties hiring APHIS to see what the bids are. If beaver removal is like AG then I am quite sure a lot of local units of government won't be spending $400 per beaver on removal. Now if organizations such as TU and others put funds toward that then that can be a game changer.

Bryce

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #7232810
04/01/21 06:18 PM
04/01/21 06:18 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot


$15 x 8 hours = $120. So if the worker only caught 1 beaver the whole day it only cost that much for the beaver not 400. If you want to get technical and double the amount for the other things provided for the USDA trapper the cost would be $240 for the one beaver not $400. If they're are trapping multiple places they are catching more than one beaver a day.

I agree some of these USDA trappers may not be worth a hoot but there are some out there that are underestimated. I also understand the private sector thinks work is being taken from them. I really don't think that's the case. I see plenty of private guys going out there and getting the work. Most of those places USDA is working isn't probably worth the headache.

If you want the math and decisions made laid out more clearly for you go to whoever hires the USDA. It's either your state or county that contracts with them. It's public knowledge.


Evidently you don't run a business if you think it's only double the amount to keep a man in the field with a pickup, snowmobile, boat, training, and other equipment.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: keets] #7232813
04/01/21 06:20 PM
04/01/21 06:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
K
Kelly Offline
trapper
Kelly  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
Before anyone says something about my place of residence I was born, grew up and lived in Wisconsin for over 50 of my 71 years, plus trapped therefor over 30 years. Just moved from Wisconsin last June, 2020.


Enjoy Mother Nature's Glory, everyday!

Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible!

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: Kelly] #7232822
04/01/21 06:31 PM
04/01/21 06:31 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
Originally Posted by Kelly
Before anyone says something about my place of residence I was born, grew up and lived in Wisconsin for over 50 of my 71 years, plus trapped therefor over 30 years. Just moved from Wisconsin last June, 2020.


Have you gone MAD! Move to Illinois? Wrong direction lol.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: keets] #7232829
04/01/21 06:39 PM
04/01/21 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,136
B61-12 vicinity, MO
T
TreedaBlackdog Offline
trapper
TreedaBlackdog  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,136
B61-12 vicinity, MO
I will lay the math out for you. One person said someone made $15. I disagree with this but would conservatively say at least $20/hr as that will put them around beginning GS6 wages. Lets say $40K/year for salary for beginning GS 6 wages or advanced 5. That is pay. Figure benefits, insurance, tsp matching and you have another $20k. Figure in office overhead, state director, district supervisor and you will add on at least 5K. Truck - oh they must be free....fuel, repairs, traps, supplies. free too right. Some will say - well these guys are not full time - term - but then you would figure overtime cause most I know work extra hours and get paid more and then off a few months
So, very conservatively say that employee actually only costs the USDA $65k..

Do you really think most USDA trappers really catch over 162 beavers? - tad over $400/beaver and I'd put money on it that it costs more than 65k for that employee.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: Kelly] #7232847
04/01/21 07:15 PM
04/01/21 07:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,384
WI
B
BvrRetriever Offline
trapper
BvrRetriever  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,384
WI
Originally Posted by Kelly
Furthermore USDA in WI doesn’t have to abide by the same rules as trappers in WI have to adhere to.



This part is true and my main issue.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: TreedaBlackdog] #7232850
04/01/21 07:19 PM
04/01/21 07:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,652
ND
M
MJM Offline
trapper
MJM  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,652
ND
Originally Posted by TreedaBlackdog
I will lay the math out for you. One person said someone made $15. I disagree with this but would conservatively say at least $20/hr as that will put them around beginning GS6 wages. Lets say $40K/year for salary for beginning GS 6 wages or advanced 5. That is pay. Figure benefits, insurance, tsp matching and you have another $20k. Figure in office overhead, state director, district supervisor and you will add on at least 5K. Truck - oh they must be free....fuel, repairs, traps, supplies. free too right. Some will say - well these guys are not full time - term - but then you would figure overtime cause most I know work extra hours and get paid more and then off a few months
So, very conservatively say that employee actually only costs the USDA $65k..
Do you really think most USDA trappers really catch over 162 beavers? - tad over $400/beaver and I'd put money on it that it costs more than 65k for that employee.

Most job listing with USDA/WS start them out at 20,000 to 22,000 per year. Most trappers are GS4&5's There are jobs that pay better. But they are not trappers for the most part. To get a GS-6 job you need to be working as a GS-5 and fill a slot when a GS-6 retires, transfers, quits or is fired. I would think they could catch 162 beaver in a year in WI. I think there are plenty of beaver there. Maybe not, I never trapped there.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: Steven 49er] #7232944
04/01/21 09:23 PM
04/01/21 09:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,483
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
silkyplainscoyot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,483
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot


$15 x 8 hours = $120. So if the worker only caught 1 beaver the whole day it only cost that much for the beaver not 400. If you want to get technical and double the amount for the other things provided for the USDA trapper the cost would be $240 for the one beaver not $400. If they're are trapping multiple places they are catching more than one beaver a day.

I agree some of these USDA trappers may not be worth a hoot but there are some out there that are underestimated. I also understand the private sector thinks work is being taken from them. I really don't think that's the case. I see plenty of private guys going out there and getting the work. Most of those places USDA is working isn't probably worth the headache.

If you want the math and decisions made laid out more clearly for you go to whoever hires the USDA. It's either your state or county that contracts with them. It's public knowledge.


Evidently you don't run a business if you think it's only double the amount to keep a man in the field with a pickup, snowmobile, boat, training, and other equipment.



Never said I ran a business and even acknowledged that it costs a private trapper more to operate. I know exactly what it costs for a USDA employee here in Nebraska. Talked to my friend and it costs $34 an hour to employ an individual. He gets paid half or a little less in a hourly wage. The rest covers vehicle, gas, and equipment. No overtime is allowed unless some entity is willing to pay for overtime. The cost isn't all covered by USDA. Your counties opt to contract with the USDA and pay for so many labor hours.

If you all are so jealous of these USDA employees go get one of the jobs. Like I said, they are an entry level job and open quite regularly.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: keets] #7232976
04/01/21 10:05 PM
04/01/21 10:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
So, one of your WI DNR dipsticks came to MN DNR and is now heading up the Wild Rice Lakes management program. Beaver Control had been bid out to local trappers and the program was working well. He liked the way things were done in WI (should have stayed there) and started using USDA. Now the program is costing more while they have reduced the number of managed rice lakes. That's government efficiency at it's finest.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: Steven 49er] #7233038
04/01/21 10:59 PM
04/01/21 10:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
K
Kelly Offline
trapper
Kelly  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Originally Posted by Kelly
Before anyone says something about my place of residence I was born, grew up and lived in Wisconsin for over 50 of my 71 years, plus trapped therefor over 30 years. Just moved from Wisconsin last June, 2020.


Have you gone MAD! Move to Illinois? Wrong direction lol.


Yes, I know 😕 but our oldest son lives here 3 blocks away. Wife insists she’ll out live me(probably will-her mom is 98) and wanted to live close to our oldest so we decided to make the move while still able. Plus we were growing very old and tired of the very long, snowy and bitter cold of northern Wisconsin winters. I don’t need a snow shovel down here.


Enjoy Mother Nature's Glory, everyday!

Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible!

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: Kelly] #7233087
04/01/21 11:59 PM
04/01/21 11:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,483
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
silkyplainscoyot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,483
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Kelly
Sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about, silky plains coyote. Government entities in Wisconsin, including the State, County and Townships are required by State law to open bids to the public when taxpayer funds are used. But since they consider this a “service”, they seem to think that requirement of open bids is not necessary. Besides USDA is just another government entity so it’s very easy for one government entity to reach an agreement for another government entity to do a job for the other.



I'm sure I know way more about how the USDA works than you do. I know several that work for them. My perspective is from out west here. Almost all ground is privately owned. Not much public ground or government owned land. Out here no one is required to use USDA and many counties don't support or have them. That's their choice. I'm sure that's the way it is in WI too. Whatever county you live in has contracted with the USDA, which they don't have to but decided to. It's the private owners decision to decide who they wish to use. Now if you're talking government lands, that's the governments prerogative to choose who they wish to employ since they manage the ground.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #7233352
04/02/21 11:53 AM
04/02/21 11:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
Now if you're talking government lands, that's the governments prerogative to choose who they wish to employ since they manage the ground.


Actually No, the government is supposed to work for us. Governments conspiring to monopolize anything without a fair and competative bidding process is wrong.

Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: keets] #7233358
04/02/21 12:01 PM
04/02/21 12:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,652
ND
M
MJM Offline
trapper
MJM  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,652
ND
The vast majority of the private guys don't have a explosive license. So are they qualified? Trapping them is only part of the job.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: USDA trappers in Wisconsin [Re: MJM] #7233375
04/02/21 12:28 PM
04/02/21 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
Originally Posted by MJM
The vast majority of the private guys don't have a explosive license. So are they qualified? Trapping them is only part of the job.


If dam removal is part of the job you put it in the bid specifications. Wild rice lakes are managed for low water levels for rice germination. Maintaining free flowing outlets means removing beaver and dams before they get big enough to need explosives. If you have impounded water high enough to need explosives the rice crop has probably already failed. I have pulled plenty of dams by hand.

Last edited by walleye101; 04/02/21 12:30 PM.
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