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Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557104
04/13/22 11:03 AM
04/13/22 11:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 374
Wyoming
wytex Offline
trapper
wytex  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 374
Wyoming
I am implying That Horace Gore is no authority on CWD, care to argue I'm game.
My post was supporting that Gore misinterpreted the findings written in the papers.
I knew Bet Williams personally and I do take umbrage at his pointed words about her.

Sorry if I offended you but none of my comments were directed at you personally. Don't know Shuler and never commented on her findings or reputation. What I wrote is correct also.

Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557108
04/13/22 11:10 AM
04/13/22 11:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
You wont get the USDA brainiacs to admit they almost exterminated the blackfooted ferret either in their captive breeding program


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557109
04/13/22 11:10 AM
04/13/22 11:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
Redknot Offline
trapper
Redknot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
Wytex, my bad, I misunderstood what you were saying...We are sailing the same seas...


~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: Redknot] #7557112
04/13/22 11:13 AM
04/13/22 11:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 374
Wyoming
wytex Offline
trapper
wytex  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 374
Wyoming
Originally Posted by Redknot
Wytex, my bad, I misunderstood what you were saying...We are sailing the same seas...


I agree, just a misunderstanding.

Now on the ferrets, my spouse worked on that program for 9 years, most at the breeding facility in Sybille. I can talk all day about whatever you're implying danny. Care to give some specifics?

Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557113
04/13/22 11:14 AM
04/13/22 11:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
Sure. When it started they let them all die of disease. Luckily, they found a few more in he wild they were unaware of and started over


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557116
04/13/22 11:16 AM
04/13/22 11:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
Are you saying they didn't pen deer elk and scrappie infected sheep together at CSU before shipping the deer and elk out to captive breeding programs all over the country?????????????????????


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557132
04/13/22 11:32 AM
04/13/22 11:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 374
Wyoming
wytex Offline
trapper
wytex  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 374
Wyoming
Another thread probably but "they " didn't let them die. The BFF was thought extinct until one was brought in to a ranch house by a dog. Then all they could find were caught up and taken to a captive breeding facility in Wyoming, Sybille. There they were bred for years, crossed with polecats and then moved to facility in Ft Collins for more breeding.
Spouse had hands on those captive ferrets for years . Numbers increased under their program. Not sure how they are doing now but I can sure find out.
BFF s have been released in may areas now and some are doing ok but not really taking off. We've been on releases in Wyoming and he has been down to Arizona on a release site.

And the facility in CO never shipped CWD infected animals to breeding facilities anywhere, they were shipped to Wyoming for study about CWD at Sybille Research facility. Yes, elk and deer were put in the scrapie pens for study then those animals were shipped for study not breeding.

Sorry to rant but I don't like misinformation when I know different.

Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557154
04/13/22 11:52 AM
04/13/22 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
You left out how disease killed 100% of the first ferrets captured for breeding due to negligence. It was assumed they were then extinct. Then another population was found on a different ranch. So they were captured and captively bred. The original capture were all allowed to die


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: wytex] #7557155
04/13/22 11:52 AM
04/13/22 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline OP
trapper
yukon254  Offline OP
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Originally Posted by wytex
I am implying That Horace Gore is no authority on CWD, care to argue I'm game.
My post was supporting that Gore misinterpreted the findings written in the papers.
I knew Bet Williams personally and I do take umbrage at his pointed words about her.

Sorry if I offended you but none of my comments were directed at you personally. Don't know Shuler and never commented on her findings or reputation. What I wrote is correct also.


I dont care to argue because I dont know anything about CWD other than talk from a few elk ranchers I know and a few articles i have read. Interestingly the elk ranchers I know have said much the same thing that Horace did. .So are you saying that there is evidence that CWD has in fact killed deer? In the article Horace seemed pretty adamant that it hasnt. Why would he say that if he could easily be proven wrong? Thats probably a dumb question considering the times.. Again, Im not arguing with you. You seem very knowledgable on CWD. Im not, but am interested in it from a hunting/ wildlife management perspective. I worry that maybe its like the coggins nonsense they have been pushing on horse owners for a few years now....and I know a lot about that.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557159
04/13/22 11:53 AM
04/13/22 11:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
Were you around in the 70's when those animals were all shipped out?

" CWD" was unknown .

Last edited by danny clifton; 04/13/22 11:54 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557174
04/13/22 12:15 PM
04/13/22 12:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 359
Arkansas
W
WhiteCliffs Offline
trapper
WhiteCliffs  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 359
Arkansas
In my state of AR, when CWD was first detected, several deer were noticed by local citizens to be sick. They called G&F and by the time G&F got there, the deer had died. Those deer tested positive for cwd. I cant say positively CWD killed them, but they appeared to be very sick, died, and tested positive for CWD. Doesnt seem like too much of a stretch to say CWD killed them.

Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557192
04/13/22 12:37 PM
04/13/22 12:37 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,786
michigan,USA
S
seniortrap Offline
trapper
seniortrap  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,786
michigan,USA
Here in Michigan our resident expert on CWD has TWO jobs to pay him well.

Still employed at the DNR of Michigan and employed at Michigan State University(appointed bt Gov. Whitmer)
as a biological teacher to brain wash the students.

If you ask him anything at all about CWD, he will step up into your face, (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) his head and tell you, "He has the data to prove it"!

Data is easy to adjust if your the one prompting the issue.

Last edited by seniortrap; 04/13/22 12:40 PM.

Vietnam--1967 46th. Const./Combat Engineers

"Chaotic action is preferable to orderly inaction."
"After the first shot, all plans go out the window!"
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557224
04/13/22 01:09 PM
04/13/22 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 374
Wyoming
wytex Offline
trapper
wytex  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 374
Wyoming
danny, first sorry if you take this as a personal sort of attack or anything. I don't mean it that way at all..

This is a pretty well written article on CWD and it's origins from folks who were around back then. I guess I'll also ask you were around and saw animals being shipped to other states from the Ft Collins facility ?
This article touches on all of this and has interviews with the researchers that were there.
A WG&F lab director was asked point blank at our local meeting how long he think's it has been around, he said since the 1950's.

https://www.coloradoan.com/story/ne...g-disease-linked-fort-collins/878097002/

On the negligence part of disease killing the first captive BFF, that was not negligence just bad science as they tried a distemper vaccine that worked on domestic ferrets. It gave the BBFs distemper. They had no other means to try and protect them form the disease. Now, breeding programs are doing quite well. It took time to get it down though and yes losses did happen.
Here is an older paper written about the program to that date.
Page 9 talks about the early days.

https://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2005/5293/report.pdf

Anyway, good discussion even if we all don't agree. I'm learning from it.

Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: Trapper Bo] #7557259
04/13/22 02:01 PM
04/13/22 02:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,096
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,096
Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted by Trapper Bo
Originally Posted by claycreech
I concur.
Missouri has wasted many millions of taxpayers dollars, killed thousands of deer in ďculling operations ď, and alienated themselves with a few thousand landowners and sportsmen.
The bizarre thing is from the start they said very little is known about CWD. How stupid is that?



When I find out your friends with democrats, chase beaver with your pants on, chip a tooth setting footholds and that you drive a Ford pickup it causes me to lose complete faith in our formerly rugged American men. But then you say something like this above and I am once again renewed in spirit by the fact that such a liberal can state something that makes so much sense!

Clay a lib......awe common man! To quote one who is! lol


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557266
04/13/22 02:07 PM
04/13/22 02:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,511
williamsburg ks
Wytex no need to apologize I never thought you were being offensive.

I saw the animals in the pens. Had no personnel knowledge of where they got shipped. I believe that scrappie mutated in the wild animals.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: lee steinmeyer] #7557285
04/13/22 02:17 PM
04/13/22 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,074
Fontana KS
A
Andrew Eastwood Offline
trapper
Andrew Eastwood  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,074
Fontana KS
Originally Posted by lee steinmeyer
Clay a lib......awe common man! To quote one who is! lol

I don't believe him to be a lib, but have seen him hanging around one. It may warrant further investigation anyway. laugh

Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557294
04/13/22 02:33 PM
04/13/22 02:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 657
saskatchewan canada
K
kingrat Offline
trapper
kingrat  Offline
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K

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 657
saskatchewan canada
It probably came from another us funded and or ran lab just like covid did.

Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557308
04/13/22 02:55 PM
04/13/22 02:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,785
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,785
perry co.Pa
CWD is pushed by the anti hunting groups. It didn't start out that way.
Remember the click bait headlines
ZOMBIE DEER

Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: yukon254] #7557316
04/13/22 03:10 PM
04/13/22 03:10 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,354
Saskatchewan
R
rvsask Offline
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rvsask  Offline
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R

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,354
Saskatchewan
CWD is devastating some of what was once among the best mule deer country in the world here in Saskatchewan. If you didnít know that you really honestly donít know much about where world class mule deer hunting is and what is going on in those areas.

To say it is a hoax would get you punched right square in the face by any passionate mule deer Hunter or rancher who cares for wildlife in any small town Saskatchewan bar in these areas.

Last edited by rvsask; 04/13/22 03:10 PM.
Re: Was CWD another hoax ? [Re: rvsask] #7557408
04/13/22 04:49 PM
04/13/22 04:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,839
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
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bblwi  Offline
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B

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Posts: 10,839
East-Central Wisconsin
We can doubt or poo-poo the CWD in wildlife if we choose to. If linked to scrapie then we best pay attention for the future. It was long believed that scrapie was or is not transmittable to humans due to the species (sheep) barrier. That fact is now being researched as there is concern that scrapie may well be transmittable to humans. We will need to wait on those results. Probably a large variation in becoming infected but it sure seems cervids re easily infected and thus can transport widely as is being documented.

Bryce

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