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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654076
08/20/22 06:08 PM
08/20/22 06:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 4,019
Aliceville, Kansas 43
Yukon John Offline
trapper
Yukon John  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 4,019
Aliceville, Kansas 43
Hahaha!


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654087
08/20/22 06:26 PM
08/20/22 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,278
PA
P
PAskinner Offline
trapper
PAskinner  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,278
PA
Thorpe would liberally squirt urine all over the set and around it, kneel in the mess and make his set.
He caught canines.
Many of the old timers used urine like a cover scent.


Right now Im having amnesia and dj vu at the same time. I think Ive forgotten this before.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: PAskinner] #7654185
08/20/22 08:17 PM
08/20/22 08:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,278
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,278
Central Ohio
Originally Posted by PAskinner
Thorpe would liberally squirt urine all over the set and around it, kneel in the mess and make his set.
He caught canines.
Many of the old timers used urine like a cover scent.

Johnny, on his own account, claimed to have smoked 5 packs of cigarettes a day.
Who do you know that does that ?

He was trying to cover up his tobacco odor. I know a lot of people who smoke. I seriously doubt animals are afraid of tobacco. But, it will shorten your life. . .and that is the real damage to a trapper

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654208
08/20/22 08:44 PM
08/20/22 08:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,278
PA
P
PAskinner Offline
trapper
PAskinner  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,278
PA
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Originally Posted by PAskinner
Thorpe would liberally squirt urine all over the set and around it, kneel in the mess and make his set.
He caught canines.
Many of the old timers used urine like a cover scent.

Johnny, on his own account, claimed to have smoked 5 packs of cigarettes a day.
Who do you know that does that ?

He was trying to cover up his tobacco odor. I know a lot of people who smoke. I seriously doubt animals are afraid of tobacco. But, it will shorten your life. . .and that is the real damage to a trapper
He quit smoking long before I visited for instructions.
I don't think he was overly concerned about human scent at that time but it was the way a lot of that generation were taught to trap foxes. Pete Rickard may have been influencial in that. Most of the old books tell you to sprinkle your set with urine.


Right now Im having amnesia and dj vu at the same time. I think Ive forgotten this before.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654261
08/20/22 09:39 PM
08/20/22 09:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,811
Idaho
B
bearcat2 Offline
trapper
bearcat2  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,811
Idaho
I seen a guy giving instructions on trapping wolves who used the dried flake "coyote urine" sold as a deer repellent in the gardening section. He would take the shaker and shake it all over his set like salting a plate of food. Claimed he did the same for coyotes. I don't know how successful he was, I tried it on a couple of sets without success, but I didnt really have confidence in it and didn't figure either that it would smell natural or that I wanted urine everywhere even if it did. So I never tried it enough to give it a fair trail.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: bearcat2] #7654303
08/20/22 10:26 PM
08/20/22 10:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,278
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,278
Central Ohio
Originally Posted by bearcat2
I seen a guy giving instructions on trapping wolves who used the dried flake "coyote urine" sold as a deer repellent in the gardening section. He would take the shaker and shake it all over his set like salting a plate of food. Claimed he did the same for coyotes. I don't know how successful he was, I tried it on a couple of sets without success, but I didnt really have confidence in it and didn't figure either that it would smell natural or that I wanted urine everywhere even if it did. So I never tried it enough to give it a fair trail.



IMO, if you're using that type of product, there's more than one flake on that trap line . . .
laugh

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654710
08/21/22 02:10 PM
08/21/22 02:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
M
MattLA Offline
trapper
MattLA  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Recently, I saw a video ( DVD ), where a man who I admire and respect commented that when a coyote buries a piece of meat, it "pees on it". . .

Hold on a second . . .

I have, over the years, many times, watched both foxes and coyotes using the aid of binoculars, and I've never once seen them urinate on a morsel after burying it.
Neither has any field biologist I've ever talked with, seen documented, or read any of their written material on the subject.
In fact, quite the opposite.
I have watched countless documentaries on wolves, coyotes, foxes, and jackals.
While I've watched them all bury partially eaten food, I've never seen them mark the spot with urine.

But. . .that's what trappers do.

And it isn't natural !

Marking a spot with urine attracts an animal to a certain spot
And why would you want to attract attention to something you want to hide ?


A good way to get it stolen, if you ask me.

Canines know this and that's why they do NOT mark buried food, IMO.
That's been my experience, Therefore, my belief.


But trappers do it and they do it with bottled, aged urine.
Why is that ?

Somewhere on here, I read a thread about making a Cache Set, where, if I understood it correctly, buried the bait and then set the trap right over the bait.
To me, that seems like a good way to find your trap exposed and dug up, if not snapped off.
Granted an animal could get caught in a trap, set on a hair trigger, but why would you not place the trap where the animal would step, as opposed to overtop the bait ?

I've set a good many Cashe Sets, all with the trap out font, none of them with urine.
If I do use urine, it's always upwind, at another set.
That makes far more sense to me.

When a canine buries a piece of food (flesh), it rakes out a shallow hole with both front feet, tucks the morsel in the hole using its mouth, then fills in the hole, using its nose.
It doesn't then mark it with urine.
It simply walks away

And so should you. . .


It makes sense to do this to me to protect the cache, when another animal smells their pee they are just going to assume that the coyote was there, and may not smell the food. Coyotes on the other hand apparently have one of the greatest noses in the woods, so it would know if other coyotes are passing through. I also don't really place merit in field biologist never hearing about it, last year I was out in the woods 10x than any state field biologist in the entire state combined. My dog also pees on the woodline, as well as poops there everyday, if she smells something else she will pee on that spot. Not as experienced as most on here, but just my opinion.

I will test this though this year, I'll get some steak and bury it and pee on the spot where it's buried, see how long it stays. I will update you.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7655621
08/22/22 04:35 PM
08/22/22 04:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 832
Alaska/Washington
D
Dragger Offline
trapper
Dragger  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 832
Alaska/Washington
After filling holes with bait, squirting urine and smearing lure for 3 years, I'd leave it all at home except for my rotted mouse bait for coyotes.

Unfortunately I'm in a "cage only" state so it doesn't matter much but with 3 to 8 holes in a bank, the "mice only" out preforms everything especially in the middle of summer.

Some of my other baits/lures get great responses but not in the heat of the summer.

For what it's worth..


Give an illegal alien a fish and he eats for a day. Deport him and you never have to feed him ever again!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7669402
09/11/22 06:24 PM
09/11/22 06:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,278
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,278
Central Ohio
Shame Washington state has lost it's trapping rights on foot holds

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7669747
09/12/22 08:59 AM
09/12/22 08:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 832
Alaska/Washington
D
Dragger Offline
trapper
Dragger  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 832
Alaska/Washington
Yep. Sucks for sure! Coyote trapping was definitely in the top 10 of things I enjoyed in life.
I now use dirthole sets to locate active coyote areas then hunt them with my thermal equipment. Odds of a response seem to go way up where holes are dug up and way cheaper/faster than running cameras.


Give an illegal alien a fish and he eats for a day. Deport him and you never have to feed him ever again!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7683022
10/01/22 09:17 AM
10/01/22 09:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,402
lovington NM
T
TravC Offline
"MCnasty"
TravC  Offline
"MCnasty"
T

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,402
lovington NM
"Fox, cats, coyotes and yes, even wolves seldom, if ever scent mark over aged bottled urine, as we've been led to believe by writers of the past.
It's B S !
Oh, they'll walk straight up to it and smell it. They'll do the same where you pee , but they won't scent mark aged urine.
It does NOT have that effect, which is why it doesn't warrant that response."


Wont . Never always Three words that will make a liar out of anyone


News to me coyotes wont work aged urine.
Guess i better just shoot the coyote in my pen and quit useing urine lt said it wouldnt work


There i said it....
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: TravC] #7683026
10/01/22 09:25 AM
10/01/22 09:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,872
alabama
steeltraps Offline
trapper
steeltraps  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,872
alabama
Same here TravC. Going up to lure shed now and pour out my last 2 year old gallon of SMC urine. Momday I will get us some commercial coyote urine ! LoL!!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: MattLA] #7684051
10/02/22 07:53 PM
10/02/22 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,430
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,430
Louisiana
Originally Posted by Tofan
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Recently, I saw a video ( DVD ), where a man who I admire and respect commented that when a coyote buries a piece of meat, it "pees on it". . .

Hold on a second . . .

I have, over the years, many times, watched both foxes and coyotes using the aid of binoculars, and I've never once seen them urinate on a morsel after burying it.
Neither has any field biologist I've ever talked with, seen documented, or read any of their written material on the subject.
In fact, quite the opposite.
I have watched countless documentaries on wolves, coyotes, foxes, and jackals.
While I've watched them all bury partially eaten food, I've never seen them mark the spot with urine.

But. . .that's what trappers do.

And it isn't natural !

Marking a spot with urine attracts an animal to a certain spot
And why would you want to attract attention to something you want to hide ?


A good way to get it stolen, if you ask me.

Canines know this and that's why they do NOT mark buried food, IMO.
That's been my experience, Therefore, my belief.


But trappers do it and they do it with bottled, aged urine.
Why is that ?

Somewhere on here, I read a thread about making a Cache Set, where, if I understood it correctly, buried the bait and then set the trap right over the bait.
To me, that seems like a good way to find your trap exposed and dug up, if not snapped off.
Granted an animal could get caught in a trap, set on a hair trigger, but why would you not place the trap where the animal would step, as opposed to overtop the bait ?

I've set a good many Cashe Sets, all with the trap out font, none of them with urine.
If I do use urine, it's always upwind, at another set.
That makes far more sense to me.

When a canine buries a piece of food (flesh), it rakes out a shallow hole with both front feet, tucks the morsel in the hole using its mouth, then fills in the hole, using its nose.
It doesn't then mark it with urine.
It simply walks away

And so should you. . .


It makes sense to do this to me to protect the cache, when another animal smells their pee they are just going to assume that the coyote was there, and may not smell the food. Coyotes on the other hand apparently have one of the greatest noses in the woods, so it would know if other coyotes are passing through. I also don't really place merit in field biologist never hearing about it, last year I was out in the woods 10x than any state field biologist in the entire state combined. My dog also pees on the woodline, as well as poops there everyday, if she smells something else she will pee on that spot. Not as experienced as most on here, but just my opinion.

I will test this though this year, I'll get some steak and bury it and pee on the spot where it's buried, see how long it stays. I will update you.



I don't think you realize how much our state biologist are out ...


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7685864
10/05/22 09:20 AM
10/05/22 09:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
My catches have always been best when I listened to what the animals told me... I use urine for what it's true intention is, not like frosting on a cake.. aged or fresh lol....


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7685895
10/05/22 10:45 AM
10/05/22 10:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 105
Maine
J
Jkeith Offline
trapper
Jkeith  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 105
Maine
Don't some bait solutions have urine in them? At least one of the bait solutions that I've used had urine in it because I could smell ammonia, that is, unless some other ingredient can produce an ammonia smell. I've never squirted urine down the hole or on bait. On the backing or a tuft of grass to the side? Yes.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Jkeith] #7688325
10/09/22 09:51 AM
10/09/22 09:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,485
Pennsylvania
P
patrapperbuster Offline
trapper
patrapperbuster  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,485
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Jkeith
Don't some bait solutions have urine in them? At least one of the bait solutions that I've used had urine in it because I could smell ammonia, that is, unless some other ingredient can produce an ammonia smell. I've never squirted urine down the hole or on bait. On the backing or a tuft of grass to the side? Yes.



This

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: TravC] #7713006
11/09/22 02:47 PM
11/09/22 02:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,278
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,278
Central Ohio
Originally Posted by TravC
"Fox, cats, coyotes and yes, even wolves seldom, if ever scent mark over aged bottled urine, as we've been led to believe by writers of the past.
It's B S !
Oh, they'll walk straight up to it and smell it. They'll do the same where you pee , but they won't scent mark aged urine.
It does NOT have that effect, which is why it doesn't warrant that response."


Wont . Never always Three words that will make a liar out of anyone


News to me coyotes wont work aged urine.
Guess i better just shoot the coyote in my pen and quit useing urine lt said it wouldnt work



TravC , I never said coyotes won't work over aged urine.
I said they don't mark over it as old time writers led us to believe.
Yes, they'll walk up and smell it and step in a concealed trap. NOT what I said.
They don't mark it with their own urine , USUALLY, for the sake of argument.
Night vision cameras has dispelled that myth !

And while we're at it. . .define : aged urine.
Something that you collected from your penned coyotes and then took out on your line and used ?
Or urine that was bought from a supply house that had sat on a shelf for two years ?

While both will catch animals, one has an advantage over the other !

When I collected urine, then took it out on the line, few lures, if any , matched it's appeal.
Not true with most urines sold to trappers today.
Both catch coyotes, yet coyotes will respond to one over the other.

Today many trappers still position their traps at 'post sets' as if the animal is coming up to urinate on the object they have placed, marking it with bottled urine.
Which in most cases, isn't true.
If they placed their traps on the approach or where the animal will stand while smelling the object, their catch would be higher.
Most bottled , aged urine, should be treated as a 'lure'.

Most animals will walk up , smell it, then walk away.
The object should be catch them when they do.

Many will walk over and 'scent mark' another place NOt the object the trapper brought in.
Old urine , while still attractive, on it's odor alone , seldom will evoke that response.

Hay sets, as an example are productive because the animal walks along the mound, smelling the scent, more often than it urinated on it.


Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7803083
02/20/23 03:43 PM
02/20/23 03:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,666
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,666
Marion Kansas
Ttt

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7803102
02/20/23 04:19 PM
02/20/23 04:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,904
NC - Here there and everywhere
C
coondagger2 Offline
"Brat"
coondagger2  Offline
"Brat"
C

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,904
NC - Here there and everywhere
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Something that you collected from your penned coyotes and then took out on your line and used ?
Or urine that was bought from a supply house that had sat on a shelf for two years ?

While both will catch animals, one has an advantage over the other !

When I collected urine, then took it out on the line, few lures, if any , matched it's appeal.
Not true with most urines sold to trappers today.

LT, you know as well as any that this isn't because the supply house urine has been sitting on a shelf, it's because it is either fake urine/summer collected/not meat fed

Don't compare supply house urine with meat fed winter urine that you personally collected, the meat fed winter collected will win every time

Nothing at all wrong with real urine that has been aged awhile. I have real meat fed winter collected urine from 2018. Ages like a fine wine


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7803711
02/21/23 11:29 AM
02/21/23 11:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
west virginia usa
R
randall brannon Offline
trapper
randall brannon  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
west virginia usa
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Shame Washington state has lost it's trapping rights on foot holds

That is a shame. That is also one of the reasons I did not like Florida. I even had a nosy neighbor sic the Police on me for having some Foothold traps hanging in my shed. I bought them at a rummage sale for pennies. It is not illegal to Posses them just to set them is what the Officer told her.


God please keep they 19 fallen UBB miners out of trouble up there.
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