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Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: MattLA] #7675866
09/21/22 11:49 AM
09/21/22 11:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by Tofan
Originally Posted by SNIPERB🦝
Looking at some numbers...the most efficient EV currently uses just over .25 kW/h to go one mile. It takes around 90 kW hours to charge a tesla 3 to full.


You are mistaken, the most "electric efficient" is somewhere in the 4.0 miles per kW/h. My F150 Lightning averages 2.4 miles per kW/h, with a total battery capacity of around 98kWh. It also only takes 12-15 hours to charge at home, less than 30 minutes at the super chargers, AND it cost me .02 cents per mile to drive it, whereas the diesel or gas is at .30 cents per mile. It definitely is cheaper because electric rates in some states are fixed and never change.

Check your math.

4 x 0. 25=1

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: SNIPERBBB] #7675899
09/21/22 12:40 PM
09/21/22 12:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Originally Posted by SNIPERB🦝
There's a couple concepts out there for that but the problem is you at best end up not gaining any electrical profit. Profit being that you gain the as much or more energy consumed by the vehicle. Also have to remember that EVs have energy efficiency losses just like gasoline vehicles. Not quite as much as gas but still not 100%


Actually way worse that gas if you account for the generation of the juice you put into an EV. Electricker is not made by pixies inside of the walls of your house. Right now you have to heat water ( usually with coal fires ) run the steam over a turbine that drives a generator, transform the energy a few times and push it through a lot of wires before it gets to charge up the batteries in your vechile. Taking all that into account the conversion rate of primary energy into motion, the EV is dismal at it. So mile per mile, you are using way more fuel than a vechile with an internal combustion engine.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7675957
09/21/22 01:44 PM
09/21/22 01:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Diesel electric on rail=very efficient-around 500 miles per gallon per ton.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Boco] #7675967
09/21/22 02:10 PM
09/21/22 02:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
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H

Joined: Feb 2010
pa
Originally Posted by Boco
Diesel electric on rail=very efficient-around 500 miles per gallon per ton.


I'd like to see this tried on passenger vehicles. I'd think it'd be better....unless the initial cost and repair costs negate fuel savings.

Battery electric, as I said above, I don't see as practical to run the entire nation on.


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: hippie] #7675973
09/21/22 02:15 PM
09/21/22 02:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Aliceville, Kansas 45
Yukon John Offline
trapper
Yukon John  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2020
Aliceville, Kansas 45
Originally Posted by hippie
Originally Posted by Boco
Diesel electric on rail=very efficient-around 500 miles per gallon per ton.


I'd like to see this tried on passenger vehicles. I'd think it'd be better....unless the initial cost and repair costs negate fuel savings.

Battery electric, as I said above, I don't see as practical to run the entire nation on.

I don't know they haven't at least done it with semis, alot of bigger dirt equipment is that way.


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Willy Firewood] #7676033
09/21/22 03:15 PM
09/21/22 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Greene County,Virginia
R
run Offline
trapper
run  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2013
Greene County,Virginia
Originally Posted by Willy Firewood
They should be named “coal powered cars” or “natural gas powered cars” because those are the fuels that generate their precious electricity.

Excellent point!


wanna be goat farmer.
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Willy Firewood] #7676036
09/21/22 03:19 PM
09/21/22 03:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Originally Posted by Willy Firewood
They should be named “coal powered cars” or “natural gas powered cars” because those are the fuels that generate their precious electricity.


I call them powered by external combustion engines, as the fossil fuels that powers them is burnt in a different location.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: loosegoose] #7676037
09/21/22 03:21 PM
09/21/22 03:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Very SE Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Very SE Nebraska
Originally Posted by loosegoose
A gas powered car only uses about 30% of the energy in the gasoline to move the car down the road. The rest of the energy goes out the radiator and the tailpipe in the form of heat. Electrical generation is a lot more efficient than 30%, and an electric car uses about 70% of it's electric power to move the vehicle down the road, the rest being lost through friction and such. Even comparing a gas burning car to an electric vehicle that gets it's electricity from fossil fuel sources, the electric car is more efficient.

Regarding the grid capacity....the grid would need about 30ish% more capacity. That's not undoable.

Mr Loos, can you afford to buy an EV?


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: SNIPERBBB] #7676134
09/21/22 05:58 PM
09/21/22 05:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Louisiana
M
MattLA Offline
trapper
MattLA  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2021
Louisiana


@SniperB, People get above 4, but I was just making a point, do you measure fuel milage in terms of how much gasoline or diesel it takes to go one mile?

You other guys are just making moot points, atleast on here for TMAN. I own an all electric truck and dont care one way or the other which is better for the environment. I bought it because It gives me the ability to one day charge it with solar panels, to "fill up" from my house vs a station and because my electricity rate doesnt fluctuate like fuel prices do. The savings is long term, even shorter if you drive a lot, even if fuel drops to $2 and a truck gets 25 MPG, the cost to drive a mile is still 4x that for my electric truck. 10 years at 12k miles per year is $2400 total "fuel" cost for electric vs $9600 for a 25 mpg truck at $2 bucks per gallon. $14,400 for 25 mpg at $3 bucks a gallon. $19,200 for 25 mpg at $4 bucks a gallon.

My 2016 F150 3.5L ecoboost max tow gets 18 mpg and gas is $2.70, which for 10 years would be $18066. My 2004 F350 CCLB 6.0 Turbodiesel gets 16 MPG and diesel is $4.50 which would be $33750. Whats even better is that the maintenance on my electric truck is far less than gas or diesel which again for 10 years puts it more way over. Again, I am only comparing true comparables, not super specific examples, I dont think everybody or even the majority of people should switch to electric. Its highly likely that 90% of people, it wont make sense for, financially, morally, common, uncommon, after 20 years. If you drive a lot, absolutely you should buy one if you can afford it because you will probably make up what used to be the difference in much shorter time. The taxpayers also helped me out on this truck $7500 deduction which puts a huge dent in the difference. Before you get mad, we waste billions on foreign countries that offer little to no strategic reasoning. Ask yourself how much it has cost us to stay in Japan, Germany, Korea and a few other places since WW2. Yes it does great offroad, yes the brake regen is really awesome and it will beat your 1998 corvette in a race to 75mph.

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7676140
09/21/22 06:05 PM
09/21/22 06:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Very SE Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Very SE Nebraska
Yep, I agree, they do make sense in certain places, but not for me.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7676145
09/21/22 06:12 PM
09/21/22 06:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
South Dakota
R
Rat Masterson Offline
trapper
Rat Masterson  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Aug 2012
South Dakota
How much will the mile tax be for ev's, 10 cents a mile seems about right. If you can afford the vehicle you can afford the dime.

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7676148
09/21/22 06:14 PM
09/21/22 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Aliceville, Kansas 45
Yukon John Offline
trapper
Yukon John  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2020
Aliceville, Kansas 45
I would guess for someone that can switch vehicles every couple of years or so would be okay. But I tend to have to drive my vehicles until the wheels fall off of them, I don't see that being practicle with an electric vechile.


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: MattLA] #7676161
09/21/22 06:26 PM
09/21/22 06:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by Tofan


@SniperB, People get above 4, but I was just making a point, do you measure fuel milage in terms of how much gasoline or diesel it takes to go one mile?

You other guys are just making moot points, atleast on here for TMAN. I own an all electric truck and dont care one way or the other which is better for the environment. I bought it because It gives me the ability to one day charge it with solar panels, to "fill up" from my house vs a station and because my electricity rate doesnt fluctuate like fuel prices do. The savings is long term, even shorter if you drive a lot, even if fuel drops to $2 and a truck gets 25 MPG, the cost to drive a mile is still 4x that for my electric truck. 10 years at 12k miles per year is $2400 total "fuel" cost for electric vs $9600 for a 25 mpg truck at $2 bucks per gallon. $14,400 for 25 mpg at $3 bucks a gallon. $19,200 for 25 mpg at $4 bucks a gallon.

My 2016 F150 3.5L ecoboost max tow gets 18 mpg and gas is $2.70, which for 10 years would be $18066. My 2004 F350 CCLB 6.0 Turbodiesel gets 16 MPG and diesel is $4.50 which would be $33750. Whats even better is that the maintenance on my electric truck is far less than gas or diesel which again for 10 years puts it more way over. Again, I am only comparing true comparables, not super specific examples, I dont think everybody or even the majority of people should switch to electric. Its highly likely that 90% of people, it wont make sense for, financially, morally, common, uncommon, after 20 years. If you drive a lot, absolutely you should buy one if you can afford it because you will probably make up what used to be the difference in much shorter time. The taxpayers also helped me out on this truck $7500 deduction which puts a huge dent in the difference. Before you get mad, we waste billions on foreign countries that offer little to no strategic reasoning. Ask yourself how much it has cost us to stay in Japan, Germany, Korea and a few other places since WW2. Yes it does great offroad, yes the brake regen is really awesome and it will beat your 1998 corvette in a race to 75mph.


We are talking about whether you can charge an EV using its own motion, regenerative braking or other methods so you don't have to charge it at a station. Just pointing out how much energy needs to run the car.

Financially, EVs need well over $5 a gallon to compare to gas vehicles. You have to overcome the initial buy price first. Thats assuming optimal energy uses by an EV, your efficiency falls off a lot when it gets cold and runnning heat or the AC Then when you have to replace the battery, how much is that going to be? Going back to gas prices and electric rates, electric rates are going to jump soon. Europe is experiencing double or triple increases in electic rates.

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Yukon John] #7676164
09/21/22 06:27 PM
09/21/22 06:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by Yukon John
I would guess for someone that can switch vehicles every couple of years or so would be okay. But I tend to have to drive my vehicles until the wheels fall off of them, I don't see that being practicle with an electric vechile.

You just drive the EV till the battery dies or it burns up in a blaze of glory

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7676169
09/21/22 06:37 PM
09/21/22 06:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
trapper
charles  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Aug 2010
Asheville, NC
That would be perpetual motion, which doesn’t exist.

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7676188
09/21/22 07:14 PM
09/21/22 07:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Louisiana
M
MattLA Offline
trapper
MattLA  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2021
Louisiana
@SniperB, there was no huge initial price to overcome, F150 Lariats in gas were selling maybe 2k-4k cheaper than what my F150 Lightning cost, if you could find them. The $7500 covers all of that and more. The efficiency changes atleast in a F150 Lightning in Louisiana, running the AC in Summer are not drastic by my measure at all. I may not live this next week, next month or even next year, but I do have a battery warranty for 10 years. I cant base my decisions off batteries potentially going bad after 10 years. What happens when an engine has a catastrophic failure after the engine warranty period?

The brake regen does let you extend your mileage but its always a losing game in the bigger picture. For instance, if you were 20 miles from home but only had say 15 or 20 miles of charge, you could very likely make it home with 5 miles to spare. It does offer a bit of classic driving action, since unlike gas or diesel vehicles max efficiency atleast in the F150 Lightning is obtained by driving the contour of the road to maximize the brake regen.

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7676198
09/21/22 07:21 PM
09/21/22 07:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
Did you buy new or used? Most EV's have a 15-20k premium over their gas version.

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7676215
09/21/22 07:50 PM
09/21/22 07:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
I had a jasper rebuild with 100k and 3 year warranty in my 97 ranger for $3600 I paid $3100 for the truck the year before. Any way you try to slice it that blows away the 22k battery replacement cost. Not taking into account the cost of the truck and your charger.

Come talk to me when your electric car is 22 years old and see if like me you drive it 127miles one way to work. Something tells me that will never happen.

Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Yukon John] #7676232
09/21/22 08:04 PM
09/21/22 08:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Very SE Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Very SE Nebraska
Originally Posted by Yukon John
I would guess for someone that can switch vehicles every couple of years or so would be okay. But I tend to have to drive my vehicles until the wheels fall off of them, I don't see that being practicle with an electric vechile.

Yup.....won't be long it'll take 100K to buy a new vehicle. I'm about to go back to an old carbureted thing I can work on myself.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Electric cars. Riddle me this. [Re: Flicker Shad] #7676233
09/21/22 08:04 PM
09/21/22 08:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Can you tinker with an EV and make it a hot rod?

Argument over.


-Goofy
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