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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7731787
12/01/22 03:18 PM
12/01/22 03:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,912
Idaho Falls, ID
G
Grandpa Trapper Offline
trapper
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,912
Idaho Falls, ID
As far as I know most anti-trapping politicians especially governors were re-elected including the governor of New Mexico. Congratulations to all of you hunters and trappers that voted for these anti-trapping politicians. There are trappers on another trapping website admit they are proud to vote for these anti-trapping people. We are going to lose more of our trapping rights with this type of attitude. It looks like trapping is going the way of the dodo bird.

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #7731835
12/01/22 04:02 PM
12/01/22 04:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
Originally Posted by Grandpa Trapper
As far as I know most anti-trapping politicians especially governors were re-elected including the governor of New Mexico. Congratulations to all of you hunters and trappers that voted for these anti-trapping politicians. There are trappers on another trapping website admit they are proud to vote for these anti-trapping people. We are going to lose more of our trapping rights with this type of attitude. It looks like trapping is going the way of the dodo bird.



X2, and it seems they have no shame.....at least Trump is gone.

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7731867
12/01/22 04:25 PM
12/01/22 04:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 80
Mich
B
bbrennan Offline
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Posts: 80
Mich
I hope your joking with the statement at least trump is gone?

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: MattLA] #7731872
12/01/22 04:28 PM
12/01/22 04:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
T
TravC Offline
"MCnasty"
TravC  Offline
"MCnasty"
T

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
Thank you captain heindsight


There i said it....
Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: MattLA] #7731877
12/01/22 04:30 PM
12/01/22 04:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
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TravC Offline
"MCnasty"
TravC  Offline
"MCnasty"
T

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
Originally Posted by MattLA
Originally Posted by CJonesFTA

With all due respect, I think you are a bit behind on what unfolded in NM and how it all went down. It wasn't a matter of trappers or trapping supports not speaking up properly or according to the "system". Trappers and supporters of trapping pulled together and did what they could, but this was absolutely a matter of being snowballed during COVID and things not happening according to the system in place as far as public comment and testimony. Reach out to the NMTA and they will tell you what went down. It was politics and government at it's finest.


Sure it was, NMTA hasn't had a lobbyist for how long? The state associations that have a paid lobbyist all have no issues with trapping bans, because the guy or gal they pay lobbies for trapping. Even today in 2022, NMTA still does not have a registered lobbyist, that serves exactly this purpose of pro-active protection. How come all these years of trapping NMTA didn't push the Legislature to enshrine hunting, trapping and fishing in the constitution of NM? It's easy to see the anti orgs that had lobbyists and still NMTA did not have a lobbyist to fight for trapping rights. I am almost positive if I did a freedom of information act request on "trapping" it was brought up very little to the legislature or state agencies. For Louisiana, I mention trapping every single time I contact my reps, I mention trapping everytime I have a conversation with a state gov official, I send monthly emails, and I will provide comments to just about every committee and relate it to trapping somehow. I'm not the only one who does that here in Louisiana, but I don't want cookies I want everybody else to do the same thing so that we stop losing trapping privileges in the USA.

I understand what you are saying, but to me it's just excuses for a lack of action in previous years. We messed up in the 80s by not using our money to get it enshrined in the federal constitution, but we are here now and have a great opportunity because we see what has happened with the states that have lost trapping rights and how to defeat it. For instance, WA has actually rolled back some of it's trapping legislature thankfully, but it has taken 20 something years. We all need to keep providing comments and emails to the New Mexico Legislature because VOLUME speaks, not just an organization that has unfortunately lost many battles in recent years.

Originally Posted by MattLA
Originally Posted by CJonesFTA

With all due respect, I think you are a bit behind on what unfolded in NM and how it all went down. It wasn't a matter of trappers or trapping supports not speaking up properly or according to the "system". Trappers and supporters of trapping pulled together and did what they could, but this was absolutely a matter of being snowballed during COVID and things not happening according to the system in place as far as public comment and testimony. Reach out to the NMTA and they will tell you what went down. It was politics and government at it's finest.


Sure it was, NMTA hasn't had a lobbyist for how long? The state associations that have a paid lobbyist all have no issues with trapping bans, because the guy or gal they pay lobbies for trapping. Even today in 2022, NMTA still does not have a registered lobbyist, that serves exactly this purpose of pro-active protection. How come all these years of trapping NMTA didn't push the Legislature to enshrine hunting, trapping and fishing in the constitution of NM? It's easy to see the anti orgs that had lobbyists and still NMTA did not have a lobbyist to fight for trapping rights. I am almost positive if I did a freedom of information act request on "trapping" it was brought up very little to the legislature or state agencies. For Louisiana, I mention trapping every single time I contact my reps, I mention trapping everytime I have a conversation with a state gov official, I send monthly emails, and I will provide comments to just about every committee and relate it to trapping somehow. I'm not the only one who does that here in Louisiana, but I don't want cookies I want everybody else to do the same thing so that we stop losing trapping privileges in the USA.

I understand what you are saying, but to me it's just excuses for a lack of action in previous years. We messed up in the 80s by not using our money to get it enshrined in the federal constitution, but we are here now and have a great opportunity because we see what has happened with the states that have lost trapping rights and how to defeat it. For instance, WA has actually rolled back some of it's trapping legislature thankfully, but it has taken 20 something years. We all need to keep providing comments and emails to the New Mexico Legislature because VOLUME speaks, not just an organization that has unfortunately lost many battles in recent years.


There i said it....
Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7731882
12/01/22 04:32 PM
12/01/22 04:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,263
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Unfortunately it is neither trappers nor antitrappers that decide the direction of policy-it is the general public that have no view of trapping one way or the other but are swayed by bad press pushed by antis and provided by dumb trappers thru poor public image.

Last edited by Boco; 12/01/22 04:33 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7731891
12/01/22 04:39 PM
12/01/22 04:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
T
TravC Offline
"MCnasty"
TravC  Offline
"MCnasty"
T

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
First off. Thank you for the timely responce im sure if you would of been here this time year before last we would not have lost trapping on public lands. Secondly ill wait to thsnk you fir reversing sb 32 when you get it done

I hooe you do ipra and foica every legislator in the state and ask fir anytime trapping was mentiond

You could look up the webcasts from each commitee meeting abd esch floor debate of the bill. But im sure you know that right?


Mabe just mabe instead of being captain heinsight. You could put your efforts to help in the time it is actually meeded Not after the fact


There i said it....
Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7731917
12/01/22 05:20 PM
12/01/22 05:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 197
Las cruces New Mexico
M
Mudslinger39 Offline
trapper
Mudslinger39  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 197
Las cruces New Mexico
It’s amazing to me when I see criticism of the NMTA from people who were not directly involved in the fight during the long legislative session almost 2 years ago. I am currently in my fourth year as president of the NMTA and have been on the board for about 10 years.
We had an amazing coalition of groups that helped us in the fight to save public land trapping. A couple of these groups had their lobbyists working alongside our lobbyist during the session and before. One of the first things we did when I became president was to hire one. Amazingly, he is a Democrat!!
Trapping in NM has been under attack for well over 2 decades and the NMTA has been fighting back every step of the way. Talking to legislators, public relations events, district meetings and the list goes on.
To those who have and continue to help us in this fight I am eternally grateful. To those who criticize from their couches, well……
I can assure you that as long as I’m involved in this association, the fight is not over! I will stop there and anyone that wants to get ahold of me should feel free to do so
Chance Thedford
President NMTA

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: MattLA] #7731919
12/01/22 05:27 PM
12/01/22 05:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by MattLA
Originally Posted by CJonesFTA

With all due respect, I think you are a bit behind on what unfolded in NM and how it all went down. It wasn't a matter of trappers or trapping supports not speaking up properly or according to the "system". Trappers and supporters of trapping pulled together and did what they could, but this was absolutely a matter of being snowballed during COVID and things not happening according to the system in place as far as public comment and testimony. Reach out to the NMTA and they will tell you what went down. It was politics and government at it's finest.


Sure it was, NMTA hasn't had a lobbyist for how long? The state associations that have a paid lobbyist all have no issues with trapping bans, because the guy or gal they pay lobbies for trapping. Even today in 2022, NMTA still does not have a registered lobbyist, that serves exactly this purpose of pro-active protection. How come all these years of trapping NMTA didn't push the Legislature to enshrine hunting, trapping and fishing in the constitution of NM? It's easy to see the anti orgs that had lobbyists and still NMTA did not have a lobbyist to fight for trapping rights. I am almost positive if I did a freedom of information act request on "trapping" it was brought up very little to the legislature or state agencies. For Louisiana, I mention trapping every single time I contact my reps, I mention trapping everytime I have a conversation with a state gov official, I send monthly emails, and I will provide comments to just about every committee and relate it to trapping somehow. I'm not the only one who does that here in Louisiana, but I don't want cookies I want everybody else to do the same thing so that we stop losing trapping privileges in the USA.

I understand what you are saying, but to me it's just excuses for a lack of action in previous years. We messed up in the 80s by not using our money to get it enshrined in the federal constitution, but we are here now and have a great opportunity because we see what has happened with the states that have lost trapping rights and how to defeat it. For instance, WA has actually rolled back some of it's trapping legislature thankfully, but it has taken 20 something years. We all need to keep providing comments and emails to the New Mexico Legislature because VOLUME speaks, not just an organization that has unfortunately lost many battles in recent years.

What is this "we" lol? I hope your talking about us trappers back then or perhaps you have a mouse in your pocket. You have been here for a year and stated that you are a newbie to trapping. However within weeks you are telling a seasoned trapper he has it backwards. You supported no hunting of bobcats in Co and you post on every thread about trapping no matter the State. You say your helping, making calls, emails etc. What is your angle here? I think it a fair question to ask a newbie who sure goes out of his way to school us trappers.
Oh and btw, did your handle used to be Tofan?


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: Mudslinger39] #7731935
12/01/22 06:01 PM
12/01/22 06:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
M
MattLA Offline
trapper
MattLA  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
Originally Posted by Mudslinger39
It’s amazing to me when I see criticism of the NMTA from people who were not directly involved in the fight during the long legislative session almost 2 years ago. I am currently in my fourth year as president of the NMTA and have been on the board for about 10 years.
We had an amazing coalition of groups that helped us in the fight to save public land trapping. A couple of these groups had their lobbyists working alongside our lobbyist during the session and before. One of the first things we did when I became president was to hire one. Amazingly, he is a Democrat!!
Trapping in NM has been under attack for well over 2 decades and the NMTA has been fighting back every step of the way. Talking to legislators, public relations events, district meetings and the list goes on.
To those who have and continue to help us in this fight I am eternally grateful. To those who criticize from their couches, well……
I can assure you that as long as I’m involved in this association, the fight is not over! I will stop there and anyone that wants to get ahold of me should feel free to do so
Chance Thedford
President NMTA


Chance,

I hope you aren't offended, accountability is something we all own and it can only make us as a group stronger. What is your lobbyist's name? I searched the registered lobbyist database in NM several times and was not able to locate a registered lobbyist that was hired on behalf of NMTA. If I have offended you, then I recommend you take a long look at the past 4 years as the head of NMTA and contrast that to the trapping losses NM has sustained. Cougar trapping was banned in 2019, and public land trapping was banned in 2021, no offense Chance, but that should make any trapper question exactly what has been going on. Nobody should feel like they can't be questioned or criticized especially in the face of so many trapping losses in a state that was until recently known around the world as a wildlife nirvana. My offer remains valid for me to provide sound advice, recommendations and strategy for you guys to work concurrently to the lawsuit that is just ticking.........without an injunction on the public land trapping ban. My name is Matthew Deinhardt if you want to know and I have spoken to almost everybody in the industry that I can at this point to understand the friction from their purview. I don't know everything, but I do know how to deliver solid wins and proactive wins to the trapping world. I didn't just pick on you guys, I have a plateful of criticism for some of the other associations as well as the national ones too. Trapping has been under attack in every state save a few for the past 50 years, so the mere fact that people don't like what we do is not some groundbreaking discovery. If you want to start winning your fights, let me help you strategize in a way that only somebody who understands the government as intrinsically as I do help assist you. I don't want money, I only want for trapping to be here for tomorrow and the years after.

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: MattLA] #7731984
12/01/22 07:29 PM
12/01/22 07:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 29
New Mexico
C
coytrpr Offline
trapper
coytrpr  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 29
New Mexico
This thread is making a lot of antis very happy. Attacks against people both living and dead who have sacrificed a significant part of their lives fighting for trapping in NM don't deserve this from someone who has no clue as to what the situation was here. I have told other NM trappers that they have nothing to be ashamed of in this matter. We held the line for a quarter century after our neighbors in Colorado and Arizona lost the battle. Many of us have fought the antis here since the 70s and some even before that. These attacks did not bear fruit until our state became highly urbanized and we were inundated with urban elitists from other parts of the country. We had a huge coalition fighting this bill including all of the major national organizations and all the major state agricultural and conservation groups. As I remind people, at one time in our state if the NM Cattle Growers (one of our coalition members) opposed a bill it was dead on arrival in Santa Fe. Basically 6 counties out of 33 now control the state. We lost because of the highly publicized actions of one poacher and because members of the hunting community publicly turned against us. We also didn't have the war chest to fight the TV ads, billboards, and because every major newspaper in the state editorialized against us. We did not lose because the NMTA and trapping supporters did not do "enough".
We had recreational lion trapping for 4 years authorized by a commission appointed by a Republican governor. It was not something we had before. It was lost with the election of a new governor who appointed a new game commission which overturned the previous commission by one vote and eliminated the activity. Again, members of the hunting community worked against us. I am life member number 52 of the NTA and life member number 186 of the FTA. I have been around a long time. I spent most of my working career as a wildlife biologist with the BLM and USFS here in NM so I know all about working with the public and politicians. I have never seen this individual's name associated with any fight to retain trapping anywhere. I want to assure people that it is unfortunate that Monday morning quarterbacks are a dime a dozen and facts don't seem to matter to them. If this individual has all the answers there are a lot of states that would be happy to see him solve the problem instead of telling everybody else what they should do or should have done. This is my only post on the subject. Another example of why social media is killing our nation and wildlife related activities.

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7731988
12/01/22 07:36 PM
12/01/22 07:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
T
TravC Offline
"MCnasty"
TravC  Offline
"MCnasty"
T

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
I dont recall ever hearing "Matthew Deinhardt"s name in the comitees. In the countless strategy meetings with state and national associations. Or with the lobbiests

Or with the fundraisers or anything for that matter

If captain heindsight wants to actually contribute good Until then he should run for political office he soubds like beto


There i said it....
Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: TravC] #7731993
12/01/22 07:48 PM
12/01/22 07:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by TravC
I dont recall ever hearing "Matthew Deinhardt"s name in the comitees. In the countless strategy meetings with state and national associations. Or with the lobbiests

Or with the fundraisers or anything for that matter

If captain heindsight wants to actually contribute good Until then he should run for political office he soubds like beto

Yep. Still waiting patiently here in Ohio MattLA for you to answer.....


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: Boco] #7731998
12/01/22 07:55 PM
12/01/22 07:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,211
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
W
wy.wolfer Offline
trapper
wy.wolfer  Offline
trapper
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Posts: 3,211
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Originally Posted by Boco
Unfortunately it is neither trappers nor antitrappers that decide the direction of policy-it is the general public that have no view of trapping one way or the other but are swayed by bad press pushed by antis and provided by dumb trappers thru poor public image.

and support of liberal politicians.

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7732005
12/01/22 08:00 PM
12/01/22 08:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,468
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
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Posts: 10,468
Iowa
I would like to thank Chance and the rest of you New Mexico folks who have been in the thick of the fight. I would say Never Give Up but I know you won't!

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: trapdog1] #7732046
12/01/22 08:29 PM
12/01/22 08:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 197
Las cruces New Mexico
M
Mudslinger39 Offline
trapper
Mudslinger39  Offline
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M

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Posts: 197
Las cruces New Mexico
Thank you sir! Kinda tough to get criticism like this when you put your heart and soul into it. I signed up for it though

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7732200
12/01/22 10:42 PM
12/01/22 10:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 130
Kansas
S
Smoky Hill Offline
trapper
Smoky Hill  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 130
Kansas
I will be joining the New Mexico trappers association to help them in this. I've never trapped in New Mexico but would like to have that chance some day. You know what they say, money talks and b.s. walks. Keep up the fight fellas!

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: grumpa] #7732552
12/02/22 12:00 PM
12/02/22 12:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,804
Greene County,Virginia
R
run Offline
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run  Offline
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Posts: 14,804
Greene County,Virginia
Originally Posted by bbrennan
I hope your joking with the statement at least trump is gone?

Of course hippie is joking. Don't you read hippie's other posts?


wanna be goat farmer.
Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: TravC] #7732903
12/02/22 07:43 PM
12/02/22 07:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
M
MattLA Offline
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Posts: 986
Louisiana
Originally Posted by TravC
I dont recall ever hearing "Matthew Deinhardt"s name in the comitees. In the countless strategy meetings with state and national associations. Or with the lobbiests

Or with the fundraisers or anything for that matter

If captain heindsight wants to actually contribute good Until then he should run for political office he soubds like beto


You've seen my offer twice to help assist now, but if you would like an explanation it's simply that I was under the assumption that the associations in general, on average across the board were in better shape. It's obvious that wasn't the case when we look at every state association on average, in general across the board. Money isn't what's needed right now, it's a drastic re-organization and a more strategic setup from the top down for the associations, but whether that happens or not we can only wait and see what the future holds. We can make all the excuses in the world for why something happened or we can just be honest and admit that we have not been doing the best job on being proactive enough on average, in general across the board to protect and enshrine trapping rights in all 50 states. New Mexico isn't totally lost, but if you want to double and triple down on a proven, losing strategy, then keep doing what you do, but don't get upset and make excuses when NM becomes the 2nd state to ban fur trapping. Again, I highly recommend you and the rest of the NMTA take my offer on lending assistance.

Originally Posted by coytrpr

This thread is making a lot of antis very happy. Attacks against people both living and dead who have sacrificed a significant part of their lives fighting for trapping in NM don't deserve this from someone who has no clue as to what the situation was here. I have told other NM trappers that they have nothing to be ashamed of in this matter. We held the line for a quarter century after our neighbors in Colorado and Arizona lost the battle. Many of us have fought the antis here since the 70s and some even before that. These attacks did not bear fruit until our state became highly urbanized and we were inundated with urban elitists from other parts of the country. We had a huge coalition fighting this bill including all of the major national organizations and all the major state agricultural and conservation groups. As I remind people, at one time in our state if the NM Cattle Growers (one of our coalition members) opposed a bill it was dead on arrival in Santa Fe. Basically 6 counties out of 33 now control the state. We lost because of the highly publicized actions of one poacher and because members of the hunting community publicly turned against us. We also didn't have the war chest to fight the TV ads, billboards, and because every major newspaper in the state editorialized against us. We did not lose because the NMTA and trapping supporters did not do "enough".
We had recreational lion trapping for 4 years authorized by a commission appointed by a Republican governor. It was not something we had before. It was lost with the election of a new governor who appointed a new game commission which overturned the previous commission by one vote and eliminated the activity. Again, members of the hunting community worked against us. I am life member number 52 of the NTA and life member number 186 of the FTA. I have been around a long time. I spent most of my working career as a wildlife biologist with the BLM and USFS here in NM so I know all about working with the public and politicians. I have never seen this individual's name associated with any fight to retain trapping anywhere. I want to assure people that it is unfortunate that Monday morning quarterbacks are a dime a dozen and facts don't seem to matter to them. If this individual has all the answers there are a lot of states that would be happy to see him solve the problem instead of telling everybody else what they should do or should have done. This is my only post on the subject. Another example of why social media is killing our nation and wildlife related activities.


If you see this thread as making antis happy, I will ask you to re-focus your vision because it's in the wrong place. I laid out the facts of what has happened, and then offered my assistance free of charge because I know the winning strategy. There isn't much more that I can do outside of contacting your legislature which I have already done. Just to recap, I have offered my assistance twice at this point to the NMTA free of charge and have not been taken up on the offer, so the ball is in your court. If you and the rest of NM want to keep trapping around, then I recommend you taking me up on my offer to help assist, guide and provide recommendations and a real winning strategy to the NMTA all free of charge. You don't need a war chest to win, anybody who says you do is lying, it definitely helps but it's not needed at all if you do things correctly. I'm not saying anybody is a bad person, but when losses happen there needs to be transparent accountability and instead of getting emotional about it, lets work together and start winning.

Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico???? [Re: Catch22] #7732906
12/02/22 07:55 PM
12/02/22 07:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by Catch22
Originally Posted by TravC
I dont recall ever hearing "Matthew Deinhardt"s name in the comitees. In the countless strategy meetings with state and national associations. Or with the lobbiests

Or with the fundraisers or anything for that matter

If captain heindsight wants to actually contribute good Until then he should run for political office he soubds like beto

Yep. Still waiting patiently here in Ohio MattLA for you to answer.....

Why don't you answer my questions and tell all of us how a new trapper, your words last year, can save us all? Put it out there ole boy.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
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