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Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732257
12/01/22 10:46 PM
12/01/22 10:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,916
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,916
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by Chancey
Originally Posted by BandB
I don't think I missed your point at all. In your original post, and several subsequent posts, you are equating a fair wage with buying a lunch for an hours pay. That is an arbitrary definition of "fair". A wage should be based on skills and abilities. Also, how much different do you think the profit margin is a those two lunches, 25 years apart? I bet they are pretty close to the same. Everything costs to an employer goes up, the cost to the customer will go up. It becomes a zero sum game, if all workers, skilled or not, are raised dramatically. What they get in an unearned wage increase, they lose in a cost of living increase.


Should an hour’s worth of “skills and ability” produced by hard labor digging a trench by blood and sweat be able to buy a lunch? How much is an unskilled day laborer worth? Is it really arbitrary?

So what if the cost to the customer goes up?




So what if cost of the dig diggers lunch costs too much because the burger flipper, the cashier and the fry guy also got pay raises.

You're just cutting one end off the rug to put it on the other end and you lose part of the rug in the process.

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732259
12/01/22 10:51 PM
12/01/22 10:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 5,891
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Posts: 5,891
Indiana
Yes going off the gold standard sure had the largest effect and made this mess possible.

Don't think for a minute we actually have true free market capitalism. Not even close.

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732262
12/01/22 10:54 PM
12/01/22 10:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,916
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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SNIPERBBB  Offline
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Posts: 15,916
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Yes going off the gold standard sure had the largest effect and made this mess possible.

Don't think for a minute we actually have true free market capitalism. Not even close.

I think we'd still br somewhat in the same situation. Just the numbers would be smaller.

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732266
12/01/22 11:00 PM
12/01/22 11:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 5,891
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Indiana
Maybe but look at the price of gold for the years befor hand and following .

Flat to a steady incline. It's a direct result .

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732290
12/02/22 12:49 AM
12/02/22 12:49 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 14,261
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
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yotetrapper30  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 14,261
Oakland, MS
I guess I missed the point of the whole post? You say minimum wage should be able to buy lunch. Of course, it can.. you can get a $5 Biggie bag from Wendy's or any other assortment of value menu items from any fast food joint if you're too lazy to make your own lunch, but that's beside the point.

You say you don't want government involved in our lives but then fault Republicans for opposing raising the minimum wage? They oppose it because there shouldn't be one to begin with.

I'm kind of lost as to whether you want the minimum wage raised, or whether you don't want a minimum wage?

6 years ago, every fast food place was paying minimum wage. The Trump got elected. A year later I went from working for $8/hr to $15 overnight. Then Covid happened and wages went up again. I could easily be making more than I am now but I like my work and LOVE me schedule so I'm good with what I make.

My question is, if someone is willing to work for XXX dollars an hour, WHY should the government be able to force a private company to pay them more than what they're willing to work for?


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732291
12/02/22 12:52 AM
12/02/22 12:52 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 14,261
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 14,261
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by Chancey
Originally Posted by BandB
I don't think I missed your point at all. In your original post, and several subsequent posts, you are equating a fair wage with buying a lunch for an hours pay. That is an arbitrary definition of "fair". A wage should be based on skills and abilities. Also, how much different do you think the profit margin is a those two lunches, 25 years apart? I bet they are pretty close to the same. Everything costs to an employer goes up, the cost to the customer will go up. It becomes a zero sum game, if all workers, skilled or not, are raised dramatically. What they get in an unearned wage increase, they lose in a cost of living increase.


Should an hour’s worth of “skills and ability” produced by hard labor digging a trench by blood and sweat be able to buy a lunch? How much is an unskilled day laborer worth? Is it really arbitrary?

So what if the cost to the customer goes up?





I would hope anyone with the skills and ability to dig a much needed trench would decline the offer to work for less than what it costs to eat.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732293
12/02/22 12:56 AM
12/02/22 12:56 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 14,261
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 14,261
Oakland, MS
And for that matter, when did paying someone to prepare a meal for you become "buying a lunch?" I "buy my lunch" once a week in the form of a loaf of bread, some cheese, and lunch meat. I always have considered people who paid someone else to make their lunch every day as fools... as in a fool and his money are soon parted. What you're talking about is "eating out". Something I'd been raised to consider a treat, not a daily occurrence.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732331
12/02/22 05:59 AM
12/02/22 05:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,444
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,444
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Somebody is up early and on fire. lol


-Goofy-
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732350
12/02/22 06:33 AM
12/02/22 06:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 274
IL
H
houndone Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 274
IL
i don't know what its like in other areas but around here you cant get people to come to work for 20.00/hr and work manual labor in a factory. when fast food places are paying 18.00/hr or they can go to menards and drive a forktruck for the same wage.i don't know where the gov gets its stats on inflation but around here it has went up a lot more then 9% from the grocery store to the gas pump.

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: yotetrapper30] #7732363
12/02/22 06:50 AM
12/02/22 06:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 438
ohio
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oneuglyduck Offline
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 438
ohio

Idk if it’s the gov should have their nose in person’s pay level. This is what I do know. Always be polite to people who are touching your food!!!!!


oneuglyduck
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732459
12/02/22 08:58 AM
12/02/22 08:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,381
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,381
ny
I worked on the Muck Farms 72 hours a week,,for $1 an hour.But you could go to McDonalds,,get a burger,, fries and a coke,,and get change back from you dollar. smile


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732470
12/02/22 09:10 AM
12/02/22 09:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 179
Arkansas
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WhiteCliffs Offline
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Posts: 179
Arkansas
No one, even in my rural area with a store front is hiring anyone at minimum wage. Capitalism is working here like it is supposed to. With a tight labor market like we have now, business owners have to pay more money to hire workers - and that is exactly what we are seeing. If we fall into a deep recession, and store owners start laying off workers - there will a rise in unemployment and it will take less money to entice a worker into a new job.

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Providence Farm] #7732481
12/02/22 09:21 AM
12/02/22 09:21 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 608
alabama
BandB Offline
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Posts: 608
alabama
"So what if the customers cost goes up?" Really? You do realize that that ditch digger will be someone's customer. If it cost him more to buy everything, his raise is now meaningless. You keep talking about the costs of goods in the past, but it cost less to produce those products back then. Costs of production goes up=prices go up. Costs goes up for everyone=prices go up for everyone.

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732489
12/02/22 09:34 AM
12/02/22 09:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Chancey
So, if everyone is paying above the $7.25/hour minimum wage, then why all the pushback to increase it?

What is wrong with minimum wage keeping up with inflation?


so you mow your lawn and keep up your house , right

so what's wrong with an HOA that tells you exactly how to do everything and regulates where you park , what you park, how long your grass is what color your door is , when you can have decorations out , what fertilizer and bug spray you need to use and how often you need to use it.


hopefully you see my point.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: yotetrapper30] #7732497
12/02/22 09:45 AM
12/02/22 09:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30

My question is, if someone is willing to work for XXX dollars an hour, WHY should the government be able to force a private company to pay them more than what they're willing to work for?



so that the government can defer the cost of welfare on the business for a few years while things adjust and they play with the numbers

everything government program based uses a multi year average to "best" deturmine the cost

if they pass a 20 dollar minimum wage then they just pulled millions of people out of poverty , sounds great

they now collect more taxes on this and tax base goes up after taxes go up because they now are no longer in poverty and loose the gov substidized health care , child care , energy assistance , food assistance , they are no better off but no longer qualify.

give it a few years then they qualify again it makes an excuse for another bump in minimum wage

every time you bump minimum it squeeze's the middle more and at some point you have a much larger poverty base with every bump , so you need more programs , more subsidies , it is a self feeding beast , it always grows and grows and grows


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: yotetrapper30] #7732510
12/02/22 09:56 AM
12/02/22 09:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,946
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,946
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30


My question is, if someone is willing to work for XXX dollars an hour, WHY should the government be able to force a private company to pay them more than what they're willing to work for?


Because you voted for it. Or did you vote for the guy that was going to get rid of the government forced minimum wages? That's what I thought.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732520
12/02/22 10:12 AM
12/02/22 10:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,509
Missouri
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HayDay Offline
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Posts: 1,509
Missouri
What most fail to see is that what a person earns.....be it minimum wage or maximum wage..........is where that falls on a relative scale.

What is the standard base line cost of living? What it costs to function in life. Food of some type in your stomach........clothes on your back.......roof over your head. Pick a number but lets say that is $18,000.........$1500 per month.

Assuming min wage is now $1000 per month and you raise it to $1500. That does not solve anything, as $1500 per month is not a zero sum game. That number is not locked in. Bump that to $1500 and that sets off a chain reaction above it.........a guy that was making $1500 now makes $2000, and all up the line. That by itself is inflationary..........so what was the base line to survive of $18,000 is now $24,000. Guy that was making $12,000.......now $18,000 is now no better off than he was. Nobody is. That guy's worth is always going to be relative to everyone else.

So forget min wage period. Base line cost of living is what it is. If you make below the base line, either work harder or smarter to raise yourself on the scale till you meet or exceed the baseline. That means individuals are free to pull themselves up without any influence on the rest.

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732523
12/02/22 10:15 AM
12/02/22 10:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,004
MN
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walleye101 Offline
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Posts: 3,004
MN
Minimum wage, like so many liberal ideas, is very appealing on the surface when you don't take into account all of the social and economic consequences. It sounds fair and equitable just like mandating employers to provide paid sick leave, maturnity leave, overtime, heath care, and on and on. Sounds great on the surface for everyone, until you understand that everyone are also the consumers that end up paying for all this. So everyone, especially low income folks, just end up chasing their tails regarding income and cost of living.

But this is why liberal ideas sell so well, and liberals keep getting elected. A large majority of the public does not take the time, or do not have the capacity, to think beyond what sounds good on the surface.

Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Chancey] #7732527
12/02/22 10:22 AM
12/02/22 10:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,946
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Are republicans liberals? Are they opposed to your laundry list of force?

Last edited by Dirt; 12/02/22 10:26 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Minimum Wage [Re: Dirt] #7732562
12/02/22 11:20 AM
12/02/22 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,004
MN
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walleye101 Offline
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MN
Originally Posted by Dirt
Are republicans liberals? Are they opposed to your laundry list of force?


Yes, many republicans are.

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