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Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: upstateNY] #7759618
12/31/22 11:19 PM
12/31/22 11:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
ny
Originally Posted by upstateNY
Originally Posted by upstateNY
BernieB. After I told you some non union workers make as much or more than some union workers you said to me,,On page 3 of this thread,,15 posts down,,you said "To say that union wages compare to non union wages is complete ignorance" If I was computer smart I would pin it up here for you.So,,my Friend YOU are the liar. Go look,,then come back and apologize.I was raised to NOT be two things,,,a liar or a theif,,you it seems,,, were not.

You THERE Bernie? CRICKETS

Yup.proved wrong and run away.Havent got a reply from you on this.Nothing to say??? If your going to call someone a liar,,and then YOU are proved the liar,dont run away and pretend it never happened.Man up.

Last edited by upstateNY; 12/31/22 11:23 PM.

the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7759649
01/01/23 12:47 AM
01/01/23 12:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Looks like he said you didnt know any better.
Thats not quite the same as calling you a liar.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7759728
01/01/23 04:35 AM
01/01/23 04:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2021
Minnesota
Northernbeaver Offline
trapper
Northernbeaver  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2021
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Boco


When does working for cash equate to not paying taxes?Only a crooked person would make that claim or assumption.
And drawing EI when you are laid off is what it is intended for,and why workers pay into it.


A guy I know pays his workers 300-500.00 in cash on Saturdays. Zero taxes are paid on that money, as compared to the taxes paid on their checks during the normal work week.


The official Trapping Across the World Discord server.

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Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7759751
01/01/23 07:20 AM
01/01/23 07:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Minnesota
Originally Posted by upstateNY
[quote=upstateNYU are the liar. Go look,,then come back and apologize.I was raised to NOT be two things,,,a liar or a theif,,you it seems,,, were not.



Yup.proved wrong and run away.Havent got a reply from you on this.Nothing to say??? If your going to call someone a liar,,and then YOU are proved the liar,dont run away and pretend it never happened.Man up.[/quote]
[Linked Image]

Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7759759
01/01/23 07:37 AM
01/01/23 07:37 AM
M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M


Good one Bernie.
Why is it that people replace the diligence of critical thinking with.... "There was this one time at band camp" thinking?
We use to call these "I knew a guy once" themes >>> one offs,
but now because logical thinking in this age of information overload has been routinely replaced by emotional thinking....
it's tricky to have a back and forth conversation before the other person calls you names.

Oh well grin
Logical and emotional never played nice together anyway.

Blessings,
Mark

Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7759852
01/01/23 09:59 AM
01/01/23 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
I can see why an employer might pay cash for Saturdays. Work 5 10 hr days that ten hours overtime pays pretty good. Work 60 and you give half your second 10 hours of overtime to the IRS.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7759882
01/01/23 10:39 AM
01/01/23 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
In 19 pages of arguing has anyone been persuaded one way or the other? Just curious.

Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7759912
01/01/23 11:28 AM
01/01/23 11:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I can see why an employer might pay cash for Saturdays. Work 5 10 hr days that ten hours overtime pays pretty good. Work 60 and you give half your second 10 hours of overtime to the IRS.



If the boss is not paid in cash as well as the employee than the boss will be paying taxes on it unless it gets worked into something else as a wright off.

It's always aggravating when I see about 1/3 of my overtime checks taken for taxes and deductions. Have a 2800$ week and take home $1900.

Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7759961
01/01/23 12:29 PM
01/01/23 12:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
I have always been able to negotiate my value to employers by myself. lol


That right there is it. I always got paid ore than the union members of the companies I worked for. Why. because I was good at what I did and knew what that was worth. There is nothing wrong with telling the boss how much you want for your time and work. If they don't want to pay that, find a company that will. Its pretty simple. Now if you want half way decent money for little work, then you may want to think about joining a union.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7759964
01/01/23 12:32 PM
01/01/23 12:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
M
martentrapper Offline
trapper
martentrapper  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
In general unions drive up the cost of goods and services. Govt. employee unions drive up the cost of govt. services. Increased union pay is offset by increases in costs and taxation.
The law of supply and demand should be the determining factor in employee pay.

Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7759967
01/01/23 12:36 PM
01/01/23 12:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
pa
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
In 19 pages of arguing has anyone been persuaded one way or the other? Just curious.


Doubtful,


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: Northernbeaver] #7759973
01/01/23 12:45 PM
01/01/23 12:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2008
Alaska and Washington State
Originally Posted by Northernbeaver
Originally Posted by Boco


When does working for cash equate to not paying taxes?Only a crooked person would make that claim or assumption.
And drawing EI when you are laid off is what it is intended for,and why workers pay into it.


A guy I know pays his workers 300-500.00 in cash on Saturdays. Zero taxes are paid on that money, as compared to the taxes paid on their checks during the normal work week.

How do you know that "Zero taxes are paid on that money"? For some reason people assume that there is something shady about using cash? That's a crazy and a dangerous idea. That kind of thinking will make it easy to impose a cashless society.

I often get paid in cash, 100% of my income is essentially cash (either green cash, or checks that are not 1099'd). I report this income to the IRS. Could I get by without reporting it? Maybe for a couple of years or so; before the IRS decides to ask me how I can afford to live without making any money. Or until the IRS audits one of those entities paying me in cash and they payor tells the IRS who those payments were made to (me).

It irks me that often times wages earners aren't really aware how these things work; regardless of whether they are union or non-union employees. However, it seems that more times than not it is union folks who begrudge the non-union people (think Democrat Party).


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: hippie] #7759991
01/01/23 01:38 PM
01/01/23 01:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Originally Posted by hippie
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
In 19 pages of arguing has anyone been persuaded one way or the other? Just curious.


Doubtful,


I'll check back in at 30 pages, may be some progress by then

Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: Boco] #7759994
01/01/23 01:42 PM
01/01/23 01:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
ny
Originally Posted by Boco
Looks like he said you didnt know any better.
Thats not quite the same as calling you a liar.

Boco,,I would have let this go away,,however his exact words to me were "you are the biggest liar on this site,,bar none".Its on page 16 of this thread,,11 posts down.Then,,when I proved that he actualy said ,something he denied saying,,instead of maning up,,he disappeared form the post. I don't let that go.Its all in this thread,,im just not computer savvy enough to gather it all together into one post.The whole jist of the conversation was when I said I know non union workers that make as much or more than union workers,Bernie said to think that was ignorant.Danny Clifton ,,a non union worker said he made the same as union rate,,but even got more hours.My reply was,, Bernie told me that was ignorance to say that is true.Thats when Bernie denied saying that,, and called me a liar.Its all in here,,and I hope this thread don't get axed,,because Im not trying to stir up a pot.I just will not stand by and be called a liar,,when the fact is Bernie is the liar,,and the proof is all in this thread.

Last edited by upstateNY; 01/01/23 01:57 PM.

the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: ] #7760014
01/01/23 02:15 PM
01/01/23 02:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
ny
Originally Posted by Mark June
Good one Bernie.
Why is it that people replace the diligence of critical thinking with.... "There was this one time at band camp" thinking?
We use to call these "I knew a guy once" themes >>> one offs,
but now because logical thinking in this age of information overload has been routinely replaced by emotional thinking....
it's tricky to have a back and forth conversation before the other person calls you names.

Oh well grin
Logical and emotional never played nice together anyway.

Blessings,
Mark

You disappoint me Mark.I would think,,being a selfe professed man of Christ,you would look back through this thread to see who is actualy telling the TRUTH.But instead,,you agree with Bernie,,just because he shares your hatred of Unions.I would have expected more from you to be honest.Im sure that neither one of you care,,but I have lost any respect I had for either one of you.So you can go quote your scripture till your blue in the face,,but at the end of the day,instead of seeking the truth,you let your prejudice cloud your judgement.

Last edited by upstateNY; 01/01/23 02:59 PM.

the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7760025
01/01/23 02:39 PM
01/01/23 02:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Back in the days when I lived in Germany, we had a VW plant in the town near where i lived. Everyone tried to get a job at that plant because of the pay and working conditions having a union job came with. 32 hour week, back then what would be over 40 bucks an hour in todays money. 8 weeks paid holidays and a bunch of other perks.

Then the same folks turn around and complain about the high prices VW wants for their cars. Some folks will never get it that there is no free lunch.

At the time I did the repairs and maintenance on a couple of high pressure washers that were used to cut the paint of the carts that carried the bodies through their automated paint shop. Yes robots became cheaper than actual workers even then. At one point they did not want to let me on the plant grounds because I did not drive a VW work vechile.
I told them that I would not sell the Mercedes or land rover I had at the time to buy one of their brand just to work on those machines. So for a while they had to take them out and ship them to me for service and repairs. They weighed about 1200 pounds and had no wheels on them and were connected to the power with a 380 volt fixed breaker box of their own. So one of their electricians had to disconnect them and re connect them when they came back. After a year or so of that game I got a permit to come onto the plant with my vechiles.
Just because of that attitude of them I would never drive anything made by the VW group.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7760026
01/01/23 02:43 PM
01/01/23 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Nevada
B
Bob Offline
trapper
Bob  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Nevada
I am not union, but I sure do enjoy a lot of really nice benefits because of unions. I had the option to join the union at my current job, I declined. The unions have done their job, it’s time for them to disband until we need them again. At this point unions are about controlling workers, carrot on a stick method.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7760030
01/01/23 02:53 PM
01/01/23 02:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
ny
My latest posts in this thread have nothing to do with union or non union.It has to do with Bernie B calling me a liar.And when I proved he turned out to be the one not telling the truth,and called him out on it twice,,he disappeared from the thread.

Last edited by upstateNY; 01/01/23 02:53 PM.

the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: danny clifton] #7760036
01/01/23 03:10 PM
01/01/23 03:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
West GA
T
T-REV Offline
trapper
T-REV  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jan 2020
West GA
Union workers are a joke. I remember we dug a trench on GA Tech property for the electricians to run their conduits to the new building. Never seen so much standing around it was ridiculous. Their boss was as wide as the pickup tailgate he sat on for hours on end.

Re: Time to end labor unions [Re: Scuba1] #7760037
01/01/23 03:11 PM
01/01/23 03:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline
"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Back in the days when I lived in Germany, we had a VW plant in the town near where i lived. Everyone tried to get a job at that plant because of the pay and working conditions having a union job came with. 32 hour week, back then what would be over 40 bucks an hour in todays money. 8 weeks paid holidays and a bunch of other perks.

Then the same folks turn around and complain about the high prices VW wants for their cars. Some folks will never get it that there is no free lunch.

At the time I did the repairs and maintenance on a couple of high pressure washers that were used to cut the paint of the carts that carried the bodies through their automated paint shop. Yes robots became cheaper than actual workers even then. At one point they did not want to let me on the plant grounds because I did not drive a VW work vechile.
I told them that I would not sell the Mercedes or land rover I had at the time to buy one of their brand just to work on those machines. So for a while they had to take them out and ship them to me for service and repairs. They weighed about 1200 pounds and had no wheels on them and were connected to the power with a 380 volt fixed breaker box of their own. So one of their electricians had to disconnect them and re connect them when they came back. After a year or so of that game I got a permit to come onto the plant with my vechiles.
Just because of that attitude of them I would never drive anything made by the VW group.


Well now, I wont see another VW vechile again without thinking of Michael's experience with the company ! You won with them, Michael, and "drove home" your point to where they complied , because you were worth it to them. You have the right to drive any vechile you choose
grin


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