Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7778539
01/21/23 04:05 PM
01/21/23 04:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Probably as much as they could,no doubt and more when they could secure help. And dont forget you wouldnt have got your independance from the Brits in 1776 without help from France. France also helped Ireland in the campaigns of the 1700's to fight the English,and America supported the RA in the 70's campaigns.
Freedom fighters always get help from other countries.
Last edited by Boco; 01/21/23 04:09 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7778594
01/21/23 04:58 PM
01/21/23 04:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
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Armpit, ak
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A fully independent Ukraine emerged only late in the 20th century, after long periods of successive domination by Poland-Lithuania, Russia, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (U.S.S.R.). Ukraine had experienced a brief period of independence in 1918–20, but portions of western Ukraine were ruled by Poland, Romania, and Czechoslovakia in the period between the two World Wars, and Ukraine thereafter became part of the Soviet Union as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (S.S.R.). When the Soviet Union began to unravel in 1990–91, the legislature of the Ukrainian S.S.R. declared sovereignty (July 16, 1990) and then outright independence (August 24, 1991), a move that was confirmed by popular approval in a plebiscite (December 1, 1991).
It would appear Ukraine annexed some of Poland, Romania and Czechoslovakia. I wonder when they will give those regions back?
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: KOSOI]
#7778601
01/21/23 05:06 PM
01/21/23 05:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2020
Missouri
Osagan
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Missouri
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You're a grown man, and you all believe in fairy tales? I believe that you believe everything you hear or see on your edited government controlled Russian news sources.
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: Osagan]
#7778617
01/21/23 05:31 PM
01/21/23 05:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
ND
MJM
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ND
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I believe that you believe everything you hear or see on your edited government controlled Russian news sources. I am thinking by that statement you must believe everything you hear from the government controlled American news sources.
"Not Really, Not Really" Mark J Monti "MJM you're a jerk."
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: MJM]
#7778625
01/21/23 05:39 PM
01/21/23 05:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2020
Missouri
Osagan
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Missouri
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I believe that you believe everything you hear or see on your edited government controlled Russian news sources. I am thinking by that statement you must believe everything you hear from the government controlled American news sources. HAHA! Not me! I dis-believe all liberal news outlets till I find out different. Absolute worst place you can find out what is going on in the world is to listen to one of the (4) alphabet news networks. Or any news outlet for that matter. They're all either deep blue or deep red. If you want the truth you gotta dig for it. At least I try. I'm like the Diogenes of the 21st century. Diogenes went around the world with his lantern looking for an honest man. I sift through the filth and detritus looking for an honest news source.
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7778664
01/21/23 06:38 PM
01/21/23 06:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
NonPCfed
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se South Dakota
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At first I figured they were using a soft approach to keep from destroying infrastructure and civilians but the bored out buildings and targeting electrical grid seemed to prove that theory wrong. So I'm back to they just can't seem to win. . They are drafting troops and can't properly equip them from videos I have seen. And that explains a lot.
Back to its right on your door step. It's not half way around the world and a conflict your government won't let your troops wins becuse they are in the business of making war for profit like ours is. Your government wants to appear strong and united. Putin is seen as the ultimate strong man. Yet his forces are not appearing as formidable as I had believed they were. If they were as tough as I thought this would be over now. IF a person believes multiple sources of alternative media out there, the Russian side (the LDR and DPR breakaway "militias", Wagner, the regular Russian Army, and the Chechens) has inflicted over 400,000 military casualties on the Armed Forces of Ukraiine. The typical American losses of 1 KIA vs 3-4 wounded supposedly hasn't been happening, especially in the last few months with the sieges of Soledar and Bakhmut. The losses to the Ukrainians have been probably closer to 1:2 or even 1:1 if you count people who have been maimed enough that they won't return to the battlefield. The total Russians (all kinds) losses have probably been around 50,000 KIA and maybe 75-100,000 wounded. Whatever the real numbers are, they are most from warfare in less than a year than since what, the first year of Korea in 1950/51? The Russians have had a sizable advantage that has grown more in recent months in the amount of artillery (both tube and rocket/missile) deployed. Why push your infantry into fortified positions (many of the big Soviet era apartment buildings are stoutly built as well as many old industrial areas) until hard points are neutralized? The war the Russians have been doing since late last spring is to destroy the combat ability of the AFU first and gain territory second. The Ukies are now going through their third army, their air force has been basically shot down twice. The AFU has used up almost all of their old Soviet heavy war material they had and NATO has scrounged the world for similar stuff to give to Ukraine. The AFU has used up most of the old NATO stuff they have been given such as M113s (including the Dutch/Belgian version that has a small auto cannon on it) and the American mostly titanium M-777 155mm cannons. That is why the AFU top general laid out a list of his need for hundreds of artillery pieces, tanks, and infantry fighting vehicles a couple of weeks ago. The AFU is mainly an infantry army at present. The Russians are now just starting to roll some of the newest equipment out, such as T-90s and more regular forces. There was a reason why the Russian government called the 2022 war a "Special Military Operation". I can't get inside of their heads the reason for such language but they used that term for a reason. Americans have gotten used to going to war based on a presidential order that includes a fig leaf cover of some Congressional resolution. Since the "War Powers Act" was passed into U.S. law after Vietnam, how hard has a Congress really pushed back on a president in conducting an armed conflict...? Not very hard. Anyway, we'll know a lot more about how this turns out by spring. I think what happened at Ramstein this week is setting the stage to cut Ukraine loose from NATO support. The Euro members have no real desire to fight the Russians directly and I don't think the U.S. Army does-- why is the U.S. Army so hesitant to give the AFU M1 Abrams tanks?? The U.S. Air Force and Navy may want to give it a go, they haven't seen their systems in action against the Rus, but maybe they're hesitant as well. The U.S. Navy hasn't lost a fleet carrier since the middle of WWII, what would they think if a barrage of Russian hyper-sonic missiles sunk a carrier in the eastern Med??? Truly start an all out WWIII? We'll watch the death cult play out some more. As the commentator "Big Serge" said in the link I posted last night, this war is now the "blood pump" of the world.
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: rex123]
#7778726
01/21/23 07:31 PM
01/21/23 07:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
trapdog1
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Iowa
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I still think one way or the other this war will be over by spring. I hope you're right.
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7778765
01/21/23 08:09 PM
01/21/23 08:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Not a chance in hades. Even if Russia succeeeds in occupying the Ukraine (which is highly unlikely) It will devolve into a generational guerilla war.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779151
01/22/23 06:52 AM
01/22/23 06:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Omro, Wisconsin
Cooncuff
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Omro, Wisconsin
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Kosoi...Good Morning...Here is a link to the article and the Russian book was "Red Devils over the Yalu: A Chronicle of Soviet Aerial Operations in the Korean War 1950–53" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royce_WilliamsI enjoy reading your perspectives, One cant always trust what's come from our governments. Respectfully Mark
In youth we learn, In age we Understand.
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779370
01/22/23 12:06 PM
01/22/23 12:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2021
Sergievsk, Russia
KOSOI
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Joined: Mar 2021
Sergievsk, Russia
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Kosoi...Good Morning...Here is a link to the article and the Russian book was "Red Devils over the Yalu: A Chronicle of Soviet Aerial Operations in the Korean War 1950–53" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royce_WilliamsI enjoy reading your perspectives, One cant always trust what's come from our governments. Respectfully Mark Thank you Mark ! I will definitely read it.
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779444
01/22/23 01:50 PM
01/22/23 01:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
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Armpit, ak
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Kosoi maybe you should read about how the U.S. invaded and annexed almost half of Mexico. Talk about bullies.  Look up the American concept of " Manifest Destiny". I believe most Americans are ignorant of their own history of aggressive expansion.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779488
01/22/23 02:42 PM
01/22/23 02:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2021
Sergievsk, Russia
KOSOI
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Sergievsk, Russia
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Kosoi maybe you should read about how the U.S. invaded and annexed almost half of Mexico. Talk about bullies.  Look up the American concept of " Manifest Destiny". I believe most Americans are ignorant of their own history of aggressive expansion. Thank you. I've read a lot about this already. I wish americans could read it, too.
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779558
01/22/23 04:02 PM
01/22/23 04:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
NonPCfed
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se South Dakota
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Kosoi maybe you should read about how the U.S. invaded and annexed almost half of Mexico. Talk about bullies. smile
Look up the American concept of " Manifest Destiny".
I believe most Americans are ignorant of their own history of aggressive expansion. To be fair Dirt, there weren't many Mexicans north of the current border before 1846. Some of that territory even included part of southern Wyoming! I don't know if the Hispanos of northern New Mexico and southern Colorado even considered themselves "Mexican", I think they still considered themselves "Spanish" (when did Mexico actually gain its official independence for Spain, 1824 or '28?). California was the real prize of that war, even though there weren't many Mexicans there either...
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779642
01/22/23 05:34 PM
01/22/23 05:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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I bet the Mexican nation thought," to be fair, we have more people there than the U.S. does". The Indians thought " to be fair it should be ours since we out number them both." The U.S. just thought, "Manifest Destiny".
Last edited by Dirt; 01/22/23 05:34 PM.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779664
01/22/23 05:57 PM
01/22/23 05:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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Spaniards ,Mexicans, Indians, and Africans were never morally superior people. They were all about capturing slaves, stealing the other guys resources, making him move and taking over. Its what humans do. we are only now starting to see that as wrong. Some of us anyway. Africans are still killing each other in tribal wars, taking resources, taking slaves. Slavery is alive and well in much of the Arab world as well. Do not pretend that those folks were morally superior. They were just the losers.
KOSOI Manifest Destiny has always been taught in American history in public schools.
Last edited by danny clifton; 01/22/23 05:58 PM.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779666
01/22/23 06:02 PM
01/22/23 06:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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If you get a chance read about Geronimo. Incredibly tough smart leader of the Apaches. He didnt like white people but hated Mexicans. He tried to avoid white people but poor tolerant Mexicans killed his wife and kids. He killed Mexicans at every opportunity
Last edited by danny clifton; 01/22/23 06:03 PM.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Ukrainian Russian conflict, new perspective
[Re: waggler]
#7779668
01/22/23 06:07 PM
01/22/23 06:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Canadians put an end to that silly manifest destiny thingy when we kicked your arses back across the border and made you stay there in 1812.
Last edited by Boco; 01/22/23 06:08 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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