Re: Wanted: Pro-gun arguments
[Re: James]
#7982611
10/30/23 01:15 AM
10/30/23 01:15 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,648 Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins
"Trapperman custodian"
|
"Trapperman custodian"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,648
Goldsboro, North Carolina
|
The issues are whether AR-15s and other "military" weapons should be banned, and whether we have "too many" guns in America. I'm trying to think of some non-obvious/non-commonly-used arguments or facts to throw at them. If anyone has ideas, help would be appreciated.
Jim The AR-15 is not a military weapon, its relative, the M-16, is a military weapon. Explain the difference between full auto and semi-auto. They both can have high capacity magazines, but so can the perceived "non-military" semi-automatic weapons.
|
|
|
Re: Wanted: Pro-gun arguments
[Re: Scout1]
#7982621
10/30/23 02:50 AM
10/30/23 02:50 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 4,670 illinois
jalstat
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 4,670
illinois
|
A great start would be to tell them to just read the Constitution, especially the 2A. It mentions words like "Shall Not Be Infringed"........ This
|
|
|
Re: Wanted: Pro-gun arguments
[Re: James]
#7982637
10/30/23 04:04 AM
10/30/23 04:04 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
OP
"Minka"
|
OP
"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
|
Thanks for all the help, guys. Some arguments I hadn't thought of. It's hard to maintain an informative, cogent discussion with people who aren't equipped for it.
The debate seems to have concluded for the day, and I got in the last word. lol. I think they may have become alarmed at my "insulting" words and ran away. I suppose I've ruined my reputation there, but I've done it before elsewhere. Like maybe here...lol
I like the Hitler meme, but using it to argue that gun control is evil wouldn't be logical. 1. Hitler was evil; 2. Hitler approved of gun control; 3. Therefore, gun control is evil. Doesn't work.
So far, I've made these arguments:
1. Guns are just tools. They can be misused by bad or careless people, but my guns aren't able to escape from my safe to commit murder on their own. Response: None. They just want to ban "those killing machines."
2. The real problem is the psychopaths that use these tools to kill, not the tools. Better mental health screening and treatment would work better than banning the guns currently popular with killers. Card never should have been able to buy an AR-15. Response: One lady said that we don't spend enough money on health care. She and I agree...sort of.
3. If ARs are banned, killers will begin using shotguns and hunting rifles. If we ban those too, killers will drive automobiles into crowds. Response: I was accused of making a slippery slope argument.
4. AR-15s are not military weapons, explaining the difference between auto and semi-auto pretty much as Paul recommends. Response: I was accused of trying to baffle them with technical info they don't care about.
5. The Supreme Court now treats the Second Amendment the same as the First Amendment (which writers care about) for purpose of Constitutional analysis. The Court says we have a Second Amendment right to keep and bear firearms in common use, subject to historically traditional regulations, like prohibiting firearms in public buildings. Response: The current make-up of the Court is deplorable, and the Constitution's framers never intended the Second Amendment to be interpreted so broadly. Diagnosis: denial of reality.
6. How many guns are "too many"? I collect single-shot rifles, and own six currently. Is that too many? Response: None. "Too many" remains undefined.
7. One woman argued the AR-15 is a specially deadly weapon because it fires bullets at high velocity. I pointed out that the .223 Rem. is not a very powerful round, and was near the top of ballistics charts. Response: Again, I was accused of trying to baffle them with technical info.
Law Dog, Hobby Trapper, YukonJeff, I haven't tried those arguments yet. I like them.
I'm interested in seeing how anti-gunners think and process information. The debate has been enlightening. They really don't have logical arguments, just emotion to support their views. I began thinking I might change a few minds, but that no longer seems likely. It's very hard to change someone's mind, especially on things they care about.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
|
|
|
Re: Wanted: Pro-gun arguments
[Re: James]
#7982663
10/30/23 05:48 AM
10/30/23 05:48 AM
|
J Staton
Unregistered
|
J Staton
Unregistered
|
I do wonder what the amount of "mass" shootings were before and after the advocacy of gun free zones.
|
|
|
Re: Wanted: Pro-gun arguments
[Re: James]
#7982702
10/30/23 07:02 AM
10/30/23 07:02 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,505 central Haudenosaunee, the De...
white marlin
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,505
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
|
didn't read the whole thread, but I'd answer with the following:
it is already against the law to shoot anyone, except under VERY strict, legal conditions.
criminals (by definition) do not obey laws. they will not be inclined to follow MORE laws that are designed to impede their criminal activities.
why would an automobile manufacturer produce a vehicle capable of exceeding the speed limit by even ONE mile per hour? (semiauto, high cap detachable)
in the countryside ("flyover country"); firearm ownership is ubiquitous; yet murder rates are low. in the major cities (with VERY restrictive gun laws), the murder rate is comparatively high.
the Supreme Court has ruled that it is NOT the police's responsibility to protect individual lives. Their job is to protect "society", which at times involves saving lives. But they are NOT held responsible for every individual's safety.
Last edited by white marlin; 10/30/23 07:06 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Wanted: Pro-gun arguments
[Re: James]
#7982736
10/30/23 07:39 AM
10/30/23 07:39 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,819 Beatrice, NE
loosegoose
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,819
Beatrice, NE
|
AR-15s are not military weapons, as others have stated. However, things like glocks, Sigs, 1911s, berettas, remington 870s and mossberg 500s. and remingtom 700 rifles are all currently used by the US military.
All that being said, though, the best argument against gun control is a simple-"you want em, come and try to take em", and then walk away from the argument, It's not worth your time. Leftists run on emotion and can't be convinced. If they all decided the sky is green and grass is blue, you could walk outside and show them, and they'd still argue their point.
|
|
|
Re: Wanted: Pro-gun arguments
[Re: DWC]
#7982787
10/30/23 08:31 AM
10/30/23 08:31 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,917 eastern WV
Ridge Runner1960
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,917
eastern WV
|
The other side’s argument is as factual to them as your’s is to you. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts, its either a fact or its not, feelings are not facts!
|
|
|
|
|