The AR-15 is not a military weapon, its relative, the M-16, is a military weapon. Explain the difference between full auto and semi-auto. They both can have high capacity magazines, but so can the perceived "non-military" semi-automatic weapons.

This

So, you are complaining about liberals who are more liberal than you (scary to me that could be possible).
With your voting habits, and liberal stances, you are essentially enabling the very liberals which are causing you strife.
I have no words to offer you. They cannot be reached with reason, login, nor facts. You, and folks like you are culpable for rewarding their behavior. Their ideology has metastasized and has spread unchecked.
The good news is, they don't like guns. We do.

Thanks for all the help, guys. Some arguments I hadn't thought of. It's hard to maintain an informative, cogent discussion with people who aren't equipped for it.

The debate seems to have concluded for the day, and I got in the last word. lol. I think they may have become alarmed at my "insulting" words and ran away. I suppose I've ruined my reputation there, but I've done it before elsewhere. Like maybe here...lol

I like the Hitler meme, but using it to argue that gun control is evil wouldn't be logical. 1. Hitler was evil; 2. Hitler approved of gun control; 3. Therefore, gun control is evil. Doesn't work.

So far, I've made these arguments:

1. Guns are just tools. They can be misused by bad or careless people, but my guns aren't able to escape from my safe to commit murder on their own. Response: None. They just want to ban "those killing machines."

2. The real problem is the psychopaths that use these tools to kill, not the tools. Better mental health screening and treatment would work better than banning the guns currently popular with killers. Card never should have been able to buy an AR-15. Response: One lady said that we don't spend enough money on health care. She and I agree...sort of.

3. If ARs are banned, killers will begin using shotguns and hunting rifles. If we ban those too, killers will drive automobiles into crowds. Response: I was accused of making a slippery slope argument.

4. AR-15s are not military weapons, explaining the difference between auto and semi-auto pretty much as Paul recommends. Response: I was accused of trying to baffle them with technical info they don't care about.

5. The Supreme Court now treats the Second Amendment the same as the First Amendment (which writers care about) for purpose of Constitutional analysis. The Court says we have a Second Amendment right to keep and bear firearms in common use, subject to historically traditional regulations, like prohibiting firearms in public buildings. Response: The current make-up of the Court is deplorable, and the Constitution's framers never intended the Second Amendment to be interpreted so broadly. Diagnosis: denial of reality.

6. How many guns are "too many"? I collect single-shot rifles, and own six currently. Is that too many? Response: None. "Too many" remains undefined.

7. One woman argued the AR-15 is a specially deadly weapon because it fires bullets at high velocity. I pointed out that the .223 Rem. is not a very powerful round, and was near the top of ballistics charts. Response: Again, I was accused of trying to baffle them with technical info.

Law Dog, Hobby Trapper, YukonJeff, I haven't tried those arguments yet. I like them.

I'm interested in seeing how anti-gunners think and process information. The debate has been enlightening. They really don't have logical arguments, just emotion to support their views. I began thinking I might change a few minds, but that no longer seems likely. It's very hard to change someone's mind, especially on things they care about.

Jim

You will never change their minds. They are closed minded. That feelings stuff is simply a ruse to make you feel guilty. The " don't confuse me with facts" act is also a stunt to make you feel stupid. Those who want to disarm us Tully "know not what they do". They will not like the results if they ever get their wish. Look at Australia. They used to be a free people. Not so since they were disarmed and the crime rate rivals America. They want to ban all semiautomatic weapons of all weapons that holds more than a certain number of rounds. All semiautomatic Rifles , shotguns and pistols meeting that criteria makeup about 90 percent of all firearms sold or owned in America. They aren't after the AR15 they are after all of them. We are not like any other country on earth, yet! America was built by those who got tired of being bullied around. And OBTW dementia Joey is wrong when he threatens us with f16s and nukes.

Will your mind ever be changed about Trump and him being a very very good President?

Some things just can't be fixed.

every federal gun law ever passed violates the 2nd and 10th amendments. every state gun law ever passed violates the SC decision of marberry vs. madison. There are no constitutional gun laws, those are facts.

I do wonder what the amount of "mass" shootings were before and after the advocacy of gun free zones.

didn't read the whole thread, but I'd answer with the following:

it is already against the law to shoot anyone, except under VERY strict, legal conditions.

criminals (by definition) do not obey laws. they will not be inclined to follow MORE laws that are designed to impede their criminal activities.

why would an automobile manufacturer produce a vehicle capable of exceeding the speed limit by even ONE mile per hour? (semiauto, high cap detachable)

in the countryside ("flyover country"); firearm ownership is ubiquitous; yet murder rates are low. in the major cities (with VERY restrictive gun laws), the murder rate is comparatively high.

the Supreme Court has ruled that it is NOT the police's responsibility to protect individual lives. Their job is to protect "society", which at times involves saving lives. But they are NOT held responsible for every individual's safety.

Very good statement White Marlin

If the Hitler argument falls on deaf ears, have them watch Schindler's List, then get back with us.

If deaths are the concern........what about the 300 deaths per day from illegal drugs like fentanyl? Dead id dead........they don't think about it or hear about it because these victims don't all die ii the same place and go out with a whimper instead of a bang, but are dead just the same. They OK with that? If not, who is responsible? The same people they vote for? Yes.

On our current course, we will see an assault weapon ban after the 2024 elections. Maybe the Court will strike it down, maybe not. I have my doubts. Regardless, you can lose a lot of rights waiting on the Court.

Magazines and ammo restrictions too.

This is a civil rights issue for me. I'm male. I'm white. I have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. That right is no different than my or anyone's 1st Amendment rights. It is no different than anyone's 14th Amendment rights.

Once you take one right, it gets easier to take the next one. This is especially true if the people are disarmed.

White, male gun owners will know what it feels like to be profiled and harassed. To be criminalized. We can already feel the uneasiness of our 2A rights being threatened. Once guaranteed, the rights just disappear even though you committed no crime. First and Fourth Amendments will be next.

This will not end well. Armed people with resources and numbers will resist.

P.S. Everyone should remember this when advocating to take a right from a person or group in this country--even if not important to you or one with which you disagree.

Spousal unit was watching Bill Maher yesterday, and towards end of program, he went on a rant and tirade about all the problems on the streets of San Francisco. All the utterly stupid policies. What must have sailed over his head is he will 100% always support the same people responsible for it. So he is directly responsible for the same policies he claims are stupid. Irony is a dish best served cold.

in order to be introspective, one needs a certain level of self-awareness.

liberals lack this trait.

AR-15s are not military weapons, as others have stated. However, things like glocks, Sigs, 1911s, berettas, remington 870s and mossberg 500s. and remingtom 700 rifles are all currently used by the US military.

All that being said, though, the best argument against gun control is a simple-"you want em, come and try to take em", and then walk away from the argument, It's not worth your time. Leftists run on emotion and can't be convinced. If they all decided the sky is green and grass is blue, you could walk outside and show them, and they'd still argue their point.

civil war is likely

Next, argue abortion and religion. These are all topics that each side is going to have their opinions on that will not change. Pointless discussions that are beat to death by people opposing each other. The other side’s argument is as factual to them as your’s is to you.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts, its either a fact or its not, feelings are not facts!

Does anyone know how many AR style rifles are in private hands today? I've read upwards of twenty million. The number seems to be vague but it's likely a good ballpark figure. Google how many AR style rifles have been used in mass shootings and you might come up with ten.

That's literally less than one in one million. Restricting the 999,999 for the 1 seems a tad excessive. Big government types and their enablers want a passive, obedient population with no means of challenging them. Exactly opposite of what our forebears intended.

I think Danny is right. Push is likely going to come to shove.

I think it is worth looking at where these guns come from. Research the history of "sporterising" weapons. The basic idea is that throughout history in this country, after a war, the weapons become "sporterised" for use by civilians. There are many reasons for this. One is that the men who used them are familiar with them. Another is that there are many surplus weapons available and it is cheaper to convert one for civilian use than to buy a new weapon. This has been going on for the entire history of our country.