Our drainfield lines below out septic tank frozen up...no snow cover

We had it pumped and the guy said "Reduce water flow"

wait until spring thaw.

Is there a way to thaw those pipes?

Thickly, composting mulch or manure over the clogged lines should help.

Keith

You could rent some concrete blankets....your frost line is Prolly alot deeper than here though

The only way I know of is to get right in the tank and try to steam the lines out. It is a HORRIBLE job and takes quite a while. I would think that if you put straw or sewer blankets down over the lines and upped the quantity of hot water going into your tank it MAY thaw itself out in time. These bitter cold temps and no snow are hard on septic systems.

Taco Bell........

Tarp and a space heater. Greenhouse with no floor over top. Plastic sheathing...just throwing out ideas!

Track hoe.

Lines are about 18" deep ,cover with anything you have and run a knipco best bet is LP The better the cover the faster the thaw.Worked for me ,good luck Start by knipco or heat source with tin so you dont start your cover on fire

I would think that even if you get the pipes thawed, the soil around the pipes will still be frozen and will not be permeable to the waste water.
Sounds like a huge problem.
I think what I would do is rely on a privy for human waste, and build a temporary drain line for grey water leading outside to a pit. This will require getting under the house and tapping into drain lines, hopefully ABS, PVC, etc. Not fun, but I can't think of any other way.

Been there.......done that.......back here in ohio........but our frost line is only 32 inches.........but it will work for you.....just takes a little longer....no digging......no waiting for spring thaw.....I'll post in detail if you want it.....if possible post a rough pencil drawing of...... 1) house..... 2) line to septic........3) drain field ......4) where exactly you think its frozen....5) is it draining at all ?..........I'm not on here 24/7......but if I see your return post with diagram I'll get back with info....

We used a fitting on the end of our pressure washer hose to open up frozen lines. Hot water is best but we've done it with cold. One nozzle sprays forward while 2 or 3 spray back, you just kinda help feed it through. Looks like this...

^ Those fittings are great to clear out clogged gutter spouts as well Shakeyjake.

Your cheapest/easiest option is to do what the pumper said. Use as little water as possible and wait. If you need, have the tank pumped again.

like the guys says, reduce water flow and get it pumped again when the tank is full. Might be the cheapest in the long run.

Cover the ground with straw and set it ablaze.

Build a hut over D-box and thaw w/propane heater. lift the cover to see what is going on, you should not have water in the laterals unless you have biomat buildup stopping flow from the laterals. Get a portable john for a few weeks to see what transpires.

Whenever we had cesspool trouble we always used a bucket till the troubles were over...

Probably too late for this season, but maybe cover the ground with straw, manure, bagged leaves what ever you got under a heavy black tarp for the future

do you know anyone with a bunch of old hay bails , or wood chips , and manure

maybe a horse barn not to far away

build yourself a big compost pile over your drain field

if you can put enough insulation on top of the ground the ground will slowly start to thaw from the bottom up.

down 48 inches it is not frozen , and if insulated from the cold that will slowly work it's way to the surface

I have seen everything be frozen and we move a bunch of half rotten bails off a spot and you could dig under that with a shovel not frozen

like was said cover with straw, blankets to thaw, i dont know where you are but i live in the country and my neighbor had same problem few years ago. we coverd his drain field ,then we dug a big hole beyone the drain field and pumped the water from tank into hole until drain field thawed out,you got to cover the hole whlle doing this . good luck.

like was said cover with straw, blankets to thaw, i dont know where you are but i live in the country and my neighbor had same problem few years ago. we coverd his drain field ,then we dug a big hole beyone the drain field and pumped the water from tank into hole until drain field thawed out,you got to cover the hole whlle doing this . good luck.

Salt , where water exits septic. Maybe.

i used to mix salt water and put it down into the septic tank. Takes a while ,might have to jump start the enzymes when it opens up.

Drain lines come out near the top of the tank. Typically not very deep .
Couple saw horses , concrete blanket , and a propane heater ! Weather is favorable.

Typically caused by driving over them.

If you know were the field end
Dig a hole there and let it drain ?
I have never heard of a field freezing…..
there is not that much water in a field pipe.
Drain rock should not allow for freezing

straw would burn off before it did anything to the soil. But if you have some dead trees around, that could work well.

If it were me, I would reduce water till spring and pump again if you have too. In the spring, I would cover the tank and drain laterals with 2 inch foundation foam board. Then backfill over the foam.

Is there any way to reroute gray water to a hose or sump pump and out to field? That would save you a lot of room in tank till spring.


https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...2130/p-105477663874-c-5779.htm?exp=false

Evaporation is a drain fields best friend ....not sure foam board would enhance that

How deep are your lines? Even better just how cold is it there ? Couple years ago We had a week of below zero some -20 nights Never heard of leach lines freezing. Sounds like leach field is done or something got past the baffle. How did guy get the lid off? Spud bar through frozen ground?

If those circles on the lateral lines are inspection pipes that reach the surface I would definitely insulate them. They let cold air drop into lines. I would also insulate the ones in the line from house.

I agree 100% AntiGov. But frozen water takes forever to evaporate. Maybe just insulate the line closest to the to tank.

If its frozen where the scratchy lines are coming from house going to tank.....I can help with info.....if its frozen past tank I cannot.......if you want to PM me........I'll give you my phone......its up to you....either way good luck......haven't read all posts from others.......but some have good ideas.... I'm not selling anything.....its just I've had same issue and know what it's like...

They are inspection pipes

frozen past the tank

Scratch the lions word to indicate the ground.Sorry I didn't say

The tank lid is cement and it sits on top of the cement tank opening about.You know, 2 and a 1/2 3 feet in diameter and I lifted it off because it's above ground.The tank itself was not frozen

the leach lines ,some were missing caps

Wait till spring!!!! You'll be bloated and vapor locked by then!! Un- freezing that line isn't impossible can be done.

Do you have a pump in the tank to push the water out to the leach lines? Is it working?

I don't think my experience will help beyond tank.......maybe you can reach a consensus with other posters....just remember anything that requires pumping your talking about freezing pump and pump lines......hope you work it out inexpensively

There should be a distribution box where the line coming from the septic tank starts to branch out into the drain field lines. That is code in PA but I'm not familiar with the seweage code in other states.

If there is a D-box I'd locate it and look inside there first. The D-box will always have some liquid in it and that could be where the freeze up is. I agree with Vinke and doubt the drain field lines are frozen. There should be any liquid in them, It should drain out as it enters. The only way liquid would be in the drain field pipes is if there was a clog or a saturated field. If that was the case you'd have had problems with draining prior to the freeze up.

Check for a D-box.

Hook your truck exhaust to the leach line vent .....maybe

That’s the problem if you ask me. We just put a system in at our camp in Canada. I had inspection pipes planned for the lines and the plumber helping me talked me out of it. He said if they don’t get covered in snow right away the water will freeze before it drains, especially under inspection pipes. Each time the water hits the ice it freezes thicker and eventually plugs pipe.

If there is a D-box, it should be where I marked the pic.

Has it been established if its a old fashioned septic tank system or aerator system with inspection testing box for testing by health dept.....if they were told wait till spring thaw by reputable pumping contractor.....there's more involved that a few posts here can revolve....

Is there any reason he couldn't try to steam the line from that end and work back towards the tank?

OK wait a minute. The leach lines have access above ground? Missing a cap? Septic tank lids around here are 10-12 inches below top of the ground. All leach lines are 24-36 inches deep No way they freeze. You guys certainly do things different up there. If there is a pipe coming from the lines to the top and it gets extremely cold that allows the cold to invade the pipes.

Like Lugnut said, the D box would make the most sense freezing, If not deep enough/ insulated, small amounts of liquid could freeze & build up, D box has small baffles to slow liquid flow into the leach system

Lost a pump on my outside boiler last week. Froze my underground supply lines to my fur shed . I was able to clear about 15’ of ice from the 1” pex and get the heat back up !

Here’s why ours will never freeze. Got 12 inches of gravel under and on top of pipe then 12 +- dirt on that .

I believe so too

Good plan Jbyrd

I wish I had known back then what I know now.

That’s way they are put in here Have to be inspected by health department before covering. I had to add 100 ft to my old ones. If those are clean outs on your lateral lines get you a gallon of liquid fire drain opener. It will heat up and melt the ice. How old is the system?

get you a high pressure, pump, rent it, and cover the line with straw, when you are done, what are your piping made of ? plastic?

if your septic tank is working right, there should never be more than a little water going out, and if it's working right, it should put out enough heat to melt the snow some above it, never have your tank pumped in the fall, you should have a tee pipe going in and out of your tank,

Absolutely!

If you don’t have mice, you will after toddling flax or straw on the field…..lol.
I’ve got an outdated system similar to that. To bring it up to code would likely be a $50k touch. Luckily it’s never frozen.

This

meaning it should be dug up?

330 your poop must not have enough power in it to keep things flowing. Lol You got to eat bettah and create some energy heat!!

i have enough gas...

Thanks for all the replies

Yes, If it froze it wasn't done right in the first place, another possibility is it is just saturated. Either way a leach field needs sized for your usage, ground conditions, buried below frost line, and backfilled with adequate gravel bed with fabric to mitigate sediment infiltration. Jbyrds looks good except the straw, we use fabric that wont break down over time. Even done correctly they can still fail occasionally and need redone.

Dang i'll send my guy up there. I bet he'd do that for 1/3. I had anew distribution box put in at my tank outlet. They ran 75 feet of solid pipe around my house.. Put in 2 50 ft lateral lines in my front yard Covered resowed the grass. Gone for 3,000 !

The way it was explained to me is that little trickle of water freezes. Then the next trickle freezes on top of last trickle until pipe is plugged.

Once tank is full, the amount that goes in, is the amount that goes out. If a trickle goes in, a trickle goes out. If you pull the plug on the bathtub, you’ve got a tub full of water going out.

I would put a heat cable or forced air heat in the first clean out. Then insulate it if you get it thawed.

AS stated, start at Dbox. New systems can freeze if not used before cold weather, old systems can freeze if saturated and failing. The other problem could be an improprly installed pipe with a low spot holding water. If you find such a spot, get a couple bags of charcoal, place above the spot, light it . cover it with some tin and anything else to keep the heat in. The ground underneath will slowly thaw. Might work overtop of the Dbox also.

Do I need a Pvc cover for the 7" hole in the Tank lid?

Everything that lets cold air in needs a cover imo. Well everything in general needs a cover.

Dang.....I know the feeling.

The straw was a bad idea…..
Use road fabric or weed fabric to keep the dirt out of the rock.
Straw seals up and won’t allow for evaporation…

That looks a little deep for much evaporation in my mind. The guy that did my house tank 20 years ago went way shallow with the drain pipe. I questioned him and he said that’s how they do it now, especially along the river like we are. He said this way you’ll lose as much through evaporation as you do saturation. Still had 3’ or so gravel under the pipe though.

When I was installing in ground septic systems the PA Sewage Code wanted 12" of 2B crushed stone in the drain field. The 4" perforated pipe would go on top of 6" of stone then 6" more was added. Trenches were 24" deep at the low end of the grade and how ever much deeper they had to be at the high end of the grade. We normally tried to lay them out over a level grade as best we could while still being over the perk holes. A minimum of 12" of topsoil over the stone was required.

A few years back we had a winter like this and many drain fields froze, the school in town even opened early and let people take showers. Thawing a drain field is not easy but I remember there were companies that would thaw them with a big electric blanket. It took awhile and was not cheap. Once thawed they were covered with straw till spring. I'm sure the frost is above and below the drain field, thats why the water trickling in froze, no way for it to seep in.

Jbyrds septic wouldnt always be below the front line here.

You guys that live in the banana belt just don't understand it.

You know when every ones field freeze up
The laundry matts are real busy doing all the weekly washes.
Another Alberta Clipper blowing some cold air down to the Banana belt

330 the lid doesn’t have a cover? That’s 90% of your problem. Heat generated from bacteria working is going out the top. That heat even not a lot should keep the pipes moving if it stayed in the system. That’s the biggest issue. Cap every thing
You do know cold air falls. So it’s going in the open caps as well

But I do know septics…….
I can not tell from the pictures,,,,, but it looks like he is in dirty ground…… sealing the top is not good…

Vinke not sealing the top? What issues does that cause worst than not toilet until spring?

Septic systems are not required to be below the frost line here in PA.

Code or not we always bury anything that can freeze below frost line to avoid problems like the OP & others have had. It also lets you drive over stuff without worrying about crushing.

My pipe is about 18”deep 6 in gravel under it. They put chairs under it as they covered. Then about 8 inches of gravel then dirt. If your ground is freezing that deep you need to move! If your putting in lines above frost line then deal with the frozen lines. You wouldn’t wrap or not close up your crawl space in winter would you? A person knows pipes will freeze. Close up any vents that allows the cold direct contact with the water.

The frost line for building in PA is 36" below grade. You'd never get an in-ground system passed here if you put it that deep or deeper.

Excerpt from the State of Michigan Code-
“Disposal tile should be laid so that a 12-inch earth cover is provided. Under no condition shall the tile line be laid below the groundwater level.
Notes
Mich. Admin. Code R. 325.423‘“

One reason why septic systems (field drains) are often laid literally on top of the ground and then covered over. The “frost line” for our Code of Construction is 42”! As with trapping never believe everything is the same everywhere!

Different inspectors I guess, what do you guys do if your lateral comes out below basement floor say 6' or 8' below grade?

In the basement below grade you would need a lift pump.

X 2

Yeah, no way that would work here either Lug. Lines would be in the water table most years. As well as being way too deep for evaporation.

Soooooooooooo 330 are you still froze?

I think that's why code calls for relatively shallow drain fields and only topsoil (no non-organic subsoil) over the crushed stone, for evaporation.

Vast majority of new sewers are mounds in this country. I typically quit mowing ours in the fall for some cover for winter.

The frost line for building in PA is 36" below grade. You'd never get an in-ground system passed here if you put it that deep or deeper.



Your ground freezes 36" in deep? I know you guys have colder for longer than we do but dang. 330 don't have a clue how deep your lines are . BUT I can tell you one thing. IF you have caps off and air is going to be able to get in and out of your field plus it's really cold you are asking for problems...

330 you got an easy fix. Get you a big tub to boiling on your turkey burner. When it starts boiling just pour it down each of those cleanouts (you call them inspection pipes) Put the cap back on to keep the heat in . EASY FIX

I've never seen frost anywhere near that deep, that's just the building code minimum that footers have to be located at.

I've seen those so called inspection pipes on drainfields. Not sure what their purpose is, sometimes they're capped sometimes not and they are full of dirt. I don't think they're attached to the drain field line at all but just put there to mark the lines.

Seems to be working better since I covered all the holes

Tank is low level


I understand the sumac and two trees down there need cut.

i cannot find a pvc cover for the cement tank lid

for now it's heavy ml. plastic x4 thickness ans a hose clamped.


What if I ran my Turbo heater with ducting from the heater necked down into the Tank's 7" hole???

I wish I could find one like this in my Area

Far East Central , Mn.

Thanks for trying Ken

What would happen if I used ducting from my diesel turbo heater down into the Tank itself?

How can you tell that those lines are frozen if they’re under ground?

I looked down the clean outs and could see it frozen

I still want to know what would happen if I used seven inch ducting and came off my turbo heater and necked it down into the tank?

You had the tank pumped so it will work fine until the tank fills. There's got to be steam thawers in your area, the same guys that steam ice dams on roofs usually can steam sewer lines.

Don't let any flames get in your tank... Could end badly..

Those concrete lids usually have a 6 inch coupler poured in to accept 6 inch pvc. The caps are reasonably priced but you need a short piece of 6" pipe to go in the coupler first. Bad part is you might have to buy a 10 ft' stick of 6" to get that little piece....
You also have the option of getting a solid cover from your tank supplier.. Might be cheaper and since your riser is above ground there is really no need for an inspection pipe...

So no to the turbo heater?

A spark with methane gas could cause a large kaboom.

They make a blow molded ( mushroom) lid for that style tank riser. No need for cement .

Hotsy brand pressure washer would thaw that it in less time then it takes to transport it ! Been way easier to rent one when it was above freezing .

Do you boil your traps? If so take the same tub or another one bring water to a boil. Pour it down the clean outs and put cap back on. Heat will stay in and thaw them. Might have to pour couple tubs but it will thaw it

I would neck your heater down and just use it in the inspection pipes that you can see are frozen. Once they are thawed and caps installed you should be good to go. Heating tank would take a lot longer to thaw laterals. You could also put 5 gal buckets over clean outs and tank opening for extra insulation.

You guys trying to blow him up LOL....

Last I checked hot water wasn't explosive.....

Hey just hook water hose to your hot water heater drain and stick it down the clean out. Yeah that will do it LOL

You got them turds flowing again yet ?

Im going to do that

Sure seem to be

It's pert near 300' back to the tank

I put the Turbo heater back in the Garage...I didn't like the methane Talk, but thanks for telling me.


I capped Every now and the Tank is all water, no ice like before and The level is Way down.

You've got a way with being discreet.......will have to give me some pointers sometime.....

I would guess the tank has not filled to the over flow yet. You may be able to see a line inside the tank where the normal level is. My tank has a baffle to keep solids out of the out flow pipe, I had it plug once between the baffle and out flow pipe. I pumped the tank and the plug dropped and when it filled back up it was working again. The guys talking about dumping a tub of water in have a 15 inch frost line. MN and ND have a 80-100 inch frost line depending on where. What works in the south may not work in the north.

Typically in the sod if there is snow there wont be much frost. Get a year without snow cover 18 inches of frost is not only possible it's probable.

We bury our water mains 8 ft deep in the roads and they will sometimes freeze. While working it's nothing to dig up a three foot deep gas main that is in the grassy boulevard that's encased in frost.

There is two feet of ice on the big lake right now and there will be three in another month, possibly more.

Subzero highs are in the forecast for the next four days and then single digits to teens for highs the rest of the month.

MJM, your last line says it all, the weather we have coming up would be a natural disaster in much of the southern half of the US.

I’d move Lol

Nah, it keeps the riff raff down.

I'd complain but it's colder up north.

He's the original Eminem- if he thinks it he says it

You won’t know if the laterals are thawed until the tank fills up and starts feeding the laterals. I think it would be easier to make sure they are thawed out now rather than waiting till more water is being added to them.