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Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384022
04/09/25 11:07 PM
04/09/25 11:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
From what I've been reading gray wolves and dires aren't actually all that close genetically. The scientists based their work on a partially sequenced dire genome from the two fossil samples Keith mentioned. They made 20 edits on 14 genes that would give dire characteristics to a gray wolf donor egg.

What they produced was a gray wolf with some dire characteristics.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384045
04/10/25 12:04 AM
04/10/25 12:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Central Texas
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Chancey Online content
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Central Texas
Mixing of species is what the fallen angels did. Disregard it, call it myth, call it BS, what have you.......

But there are accounts of this very thing going on that we can read about and the result did not end well.


המשיח הוא המלך
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: beaverpeeler] #8384052
04/10/25 12:28 AM
04/10/25 12:28 AM
Joined: May 2009
Champaign County, Ohio.
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Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
From what I've been reading gray wolves and dires aren't actually all that close genetically. The scientists based their work on a partially sequenced dire genome from the two fossil samples Keith mentioned. They made 20 edits on 14 genes that would give dire characteristics to a gray wolf donor egg.

What they produced was a gray wolf with some dire characteristics.


They removed all genetic material from the gray wolf egg.

Keith

Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384243
04/10/25 10:23 AM
04/10/25 10:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
I don't believe that is correct. They said the work they did was to make 20 edits on 14 genes. That would leave all the rest original gray wolf genes.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: KeithC] #8384248
04/10/25 10:28 AM
04/10/25 10:28 AM
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Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted by KeithC
Neanderthals are believed to have had the same average IQ range as modern humans, of 85 to 115, with a mean of 100 compared to the mean average IQ of Sub Saharan Africans, the first Homo sapiens, which is 82.

Larger brain size has a slight correlation to intelligence. Likely the biggest reason for higher intelligence in Neanderthals is genetic selection from living in a harsher environment.

The areas of Africa with Neanderthal genetics have higher average IQs than the Sub Saharan parts of Africa.

I doubt there is a single person on this forum who doesn't have Neanderthal DNA.

Caucasians and Asians all have Neanderthal DNA, with some Asians having a fair amount of Denisovan DNA. Almost all black people in the US have Neanderthal DNA too.

Keith


Not to be picking on you Keith, but if you look into it a bit further H. sapiens sapiens are thought to have had a one gene mutation that produced extra neurons in the neocortex. This is associated with more intelligence. Neanderthal did not have the mutation.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384264
04/10/25 10:39 AM
04/10/25 10:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
You watched jurassic park too many times man!


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384282
04/10/25 10:57 AM
04/10/25 10:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
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Rodney,Ohio
Colossus CEO was just on the Glenn Beck show to present what they were doing.

Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: bowhunter27295] #8384288
04/10/25 11:12 AM
04/10/25 11:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2024
Kansas
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someGuyInKansas Offline OP
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I'm a litlte suprised to see some prey animals on that list. I've seen comments about people buying game bird chicks (quail, etc) and how that often just works out being very expensive predator food because when raised in captivity they don't learn the paranoid behavior necessary to survive in the wild. As I understand it, a large part of prey animal's survival, comes from the learned behaviors watching their parents in the wild.

I could see how bringing back an apex preditor might have a higher chance of success because when a young preditor makes a mistake, they're hungry. Whereas when a young prey animal makes a mistake it is dead.

I'm not a fan of any of it. I have the same concerns y'all have been mentioning. Just pointing out there's likely an extra set of challenges releasing prey animals in the wild.

Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: beaverpeeler] #8384344
04/10/25 01:41 PM
04/10/25 01:41 PM
Joined: May 2009
Champaign County, Ohio.
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Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
I don't believe that is correct. They said the work they did was to make 20 edits on 14 genes. That would leave all the rest original gray wolf genes.


The eggs used have all genetic material removed.

"They then took the genetic material from this cell and placed it into the egg cell of a domesticated dog that had had its genetic material removed. Once that egg cell had developed into an embryo, it was implanted into a surrogate dog."

Much of the DNA of a gray wolf is also present in dire wolves, just like much of the DNA in a Chimpanzee is present in humans.

https://www.wired.com/story/scientists-brought-back-dire-wolf-deextinct/

Keith

Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: bowhunter27295] #8384349
04/10/25 01:47 PM
04/10/25 01:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
West Central MN
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Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Either way, to think bringing back more apex predators is a good thing for hunters and trappers is crazy.

They are talking about dodo birds and saber tooth tigers. Can you imagine a saber tooth tiger? What a freaking great idea!!!

Animal rights activist would get it put on the endangered list so we wouldn't be able to hunt or trap them without any federal repercussions.


Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384353
04/10/25 01:54 PM
04/10/25 01:54 PM
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Champaign County, Ohio.
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Carl, the mystery population referred to is believed to be Homo sapiens that left Africa and interbred with Homo neanderthalensis, in Turkey and the Caucus, by a great many anthropologists.

[Linked Image]

Keith

Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: KeithC] #8384425
04/10/25 04:18 PM
04/10/25 04:18 PM
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Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted by KeithC
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
I don't believe that is correct. They said the work they did was to make 20 edits on 14 genes. That would leave all the rest original gray wolf genes.


The eggs used have all genetic material removed.

"They then took the genetic material from this cell and placed it into the egg cell of a domesticated dog that had had its genetic material removed. Once that egg cell had developed into an embryo, it was implanted into a surrogate dog."

Much of the DNA of a gray wolf is also present in dire wolves, just like much of the DNA in a Chimpanzee is present in humans.

https://www.wired.com/story/scientists-brought-back-dire-wolf-deextinct/

Keith

A gray wolf has about 19,000 genes. 14 genes we're edited for 20 total edits. All the rest of the genetic makeup of dire/gray wolf hybrid puppies had to have come from the gray wolf donor egg. Where else would it come from?


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384445
04/10/25 05:10 PM
04/10/25 05:10 PM
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Champaign County, Ohio.
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Carl, my understanding is that the other genes are shared between the two species and therefore would not need edited. Just like if you were making a person.out of an orangutan sample, you would only need to edit the few genes that are different to do so.

Keith

Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384522
04/10/25 07:15 PM
04/10/25 07:15 PM
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Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Great explanation Tatiana. I learned a lot. Hadn't realized that the wolf genome could be 2.5 billion base pairs.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384757
04/11/25 05:14 AM
04/11/25 05:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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Our ancestors went to a lot of trouble to kill mammoths. Probably cause it was such an enormous amount of food and tool resources. Maybe cause they were delicious. If they make a sort of copy I wonder how much a steak will cost?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8384811
04/11/25 07:15 AM
04/11/25 07:15 AM
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South shore L.I.
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Lot of groceries in a Mammoth, most people on earth today had ancestors that ate those things....Heck, why not?... grin

As long as you didn't get ate by a Dire wolf... cool

Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: Tatiana] #8384951
04/11/25 10:41 AM
04/11/25 10:41 AM
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Idaho
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Idaho
Originally Posted by Tatiana
Originally Posted by KeithC
Carl, my understanding is that the other genes are shared between the two species and therefore would not need edited. Just like if you were making a person.out of an orangutan sample, you would only need to edit the few genes that are different to do so.

Keith



There are lots of more or less significant differences in most of the shared genes, since the two species aren't very close. However, most of these differences don't affect the phenotype, plus many genes seem to have no (known) function whatsoever. Figuring out which genes do affect the phenotype is a big challenge.

A sequenced genome and actual DNA in a live cell are two very different things.

Full-genome sequencing means a bunch of DNA is extracted (from fossils, in this case) and read, and if it's well-preserved, i.e. if there are plenty of fragments, say, over 10 000 base pairs long, it can be assembled into a genome by supercomputers without too many mistakes, usually using a reference genome of a related species as a helpful template. A wolf genome is about 2.5 billion base pairs long. There are plenty of repeating fragments, so smaller pieces cause more mistakes. A rough comparison would be, you can restore text reatively easily and accurately if you have a dozen identical books cut up into random fragments ranging from a paragraph to a couple of pages, but not if they are cut up into pieces 2-3 words long. So that sequenced DNA is a computer file. Essentially a text with some formatting. Fancy formatting if it's a modern chromosome-level assembly, nevertheless. A long way from actual DNA.

We can compare the dire wolf text with the wolf text, find the corresponding genes, assemble ("cook", in a lab) short fragments repesenting the differences in specific genes, and replace the corresponding stretches of DNA from a fresh wolf cell with dire wolf variants using the CRISPR-Cas9 "scissor" enzyme. So technically, they are regular wolves with several dire wolf genes copypasted into ther genome. Similarly, the "mammoths" they are hoping to "reconstruct" will be hairy elephants with perhaps a few other select mammoth phenotype traits.

None of the technologies that were used are brand new, but it's a lot of good work, and a lot of money. Pinpointing specific genes responsible for specific phenotypical traits is tedious and expensive. In fact, Colossal's previous creation, the mammoth mice, was probably a bigger challenge, technologically, but less PR-worthy. These technologies are routinely used in labs around the world but it's usually with very unimpressive creatures such as fruit flies.

And these wolves being put on "endangered" lists or released into the wild seems like a far-fetched concern since formally they are lab animals, and animal rights fascists (or rather, the budget thieves they are employed by) have plenty of other, legally easier options for actual wild animals (orcas, wolves, sea otters, etc) to weaponize = monetize.




Your scientific explanation of gene sequencing and splicing are spot on. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the scientists involved in the work are thinking nothing more than, "dire wolfs/wooly mammoths/sabertooth tigers/dinosaurs, cool!" They are geeks, and lets face it, those animals are cool to contemplate. But if you think that animal rights people aren't contemplating how to get them on the endangered species list, and how to use them to restrict or eliminate use/harvest/management of other animals, I think you are very naive.

Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8385011
04/11/25 12:47 PM
04/11/25 12:47 PM
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We have been experimenting cloning farm animals for decades now. Messing around with extinct wildlife is truly interesting but the scary part is a human can also be cloned. In all countries humans are supposed to be off the list, but with countries not trusting the others, who knows what might be happening. Technology does not always create good results. Food for thought


TILL THAT DAY.....

When we have to re-write a piece of history,
we will no longer have to believe a lie
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8385080
04/11/25 03:06 PM
04/11/25 03:06 PM
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Oregon
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Oregon
I'm all for it. I want to clone myself so that the clone has to be the one to go shopping with my wife while I'm out trapping!


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Dire Wolves cloned (extinct thousands of years) [Re: beaverpeeler] #8385250
04/11/25 07:44 PM
04/11/25 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
I'm all for it. I want to clone myself so that the clone has to be the one to go shopping with my wife while I'm out trapping!

LOL,,now yer thinkin. grin


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
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