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Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406735
Yesterday at 09:20 PM
Yesterday at 09:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
Originally Posted by AK Timber Tramp
Originally Posted by Dirty D
The Red cedar we see in the lower 48, on the eastern side is Eastern Red Cedar, (Juniperus virginiana) the red cedar AK is talking about is a completely different tree. (Thuja plicata).

again we see the issue with using common names to identify botanical things.

That’s why I specified western red cedar when I realized he was in PA. I’ve never been east of Montana, so I have no clue what grows there.


I understand the difference and that is why I also specified western red cedar in my post.

Western red cedar is a better wood than eastern red cedar and even though eastern red cedar is native to PA, western red cedar lumber is more readily available here.

It could be because western red cedar grows three or four times bigger than most eastern red cedars.


Eh...wot?

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406742
Yesterday at 09:26 PM
Yesterday at 09:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2024
Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Alaska
Makes sense. I have no knowledge of the eastern variety, never seen one before. I do know the western ones grow quick in the right environment, everything but spruce grows pretty slowly here, but I’ve cut 40” cedar in WA and OR that was only 60 years old, huge growth rings

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406743
Yesterday at 09:29 PM
Yesterday at 09:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2025
NC
J
Joco1995 Offline
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Joco1995  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2025
NC
Great thread amazing to see old growth trees like that

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: Joco1995] #8406745
Yesterday at 09:32 PM
Yesterday at 09:32 PM
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Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Alaska
Originally Posted by Joco1995
Great thread amazing to see old growth trees like that

That one isn’t a particularly impressive specimen, it’s not even the biggest or most complex thing I cut today, I was just nearby my backpack, and my wife asked me to take more pictures of things, so I’ve been trying to remember to when my phone is close

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406749
Yesterday at 09:35 PM
Yesterday at 09:35 PM
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Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Alaska
[Linked Image]
Same ugly tree, from my point of view up close. That’s a 500i with a 36” duralite for reference purposes

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406750
Yesterday at 09:35 PM
Yesterday at 09:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Washington State
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humptulips Offline
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Washington State
I grew up next to a shake mill and while I learned to dislike the smell it would be hard to dispute its utility as a roofing material. Yellow cedar doesn't come close. I have cut up Western Red Cedar windfalls that had 8-foot stumps growing over them. You won't find that with yellow cedar. Yes, you can do more with a Red cedar than a yellow cedar on the stump and they save better just because red cedar is more brittle but the sheer volume of red cedar that has been cut gives it more utility.
I have some beautiful stretching boards made out of western red cedar, superior to yellow cedar IMO.

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406752
Yesterday at 09:45 PM
Yesterday at 09:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2025
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Joco1995 Offline
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NC
The old stuff was cut long ago on the east coast. Theres a couple sycamores here and some oaks that probably saw some indians. A few impressive longleaf pines on the place that a hurricane didnt get in 96. I would like to see the west before i keel over for sure.

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: humptulips] #8406753
Yesterday at 09:45 PM
Yesterday at 09:45 PM
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Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Alaska
Originally Posted by humptulips
I grew up next to a shake mill and while I learned to dislike the smell it would be hard to dispute its utility as a roofing material. Yellow cedar doesn't come close. I have cut up Western Red Cedar windfalls that had 8-foot stumps growing over them. You won't find that with yellow cedar. Yes, you can do more with a Red cedar than a yellow cedar on the stump and they save better just because red cedar is more brittle but the sheer volume of red cedar that has been cut gives it more utility.
I have some beautiful stretching boards made out of western red cedar, superior to yellow cedar IMO.

I can appreciate red cedar…after it gets to the mill lol. My perspective and opinions come from being the guy who’s gotta cut it, so I appreciate trees that are willing to work with me a little bit, and reds are low on that list for reasons every cutter can agree with. It’s by no means the worst, in fact most tree species have at least some annoying qualities. Hemlock has bad rot issues in certain stands, and is prone to windshake in the butts. Spruce limbs (especially in old growth) are hard as iron. Alders like to barberchair unless you cut them all the way off. Red cedar I’ve complained about enough for today. And yellow cedar are God’s tree, they’re perfect lol. I also really like the Doug Fir they have in WA, OR, and parts of CA, but it gets real hard and cobby if you go east of the cascade mountains

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406754
Yesterday at 09:47 PM
Yesterday at 09:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
lewis county,new york
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newfox1 Offline
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lewis county,new york
One things for sure, that one ain’t getting no bigger. Lol

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: newfox1] #8406755
Yesterday at 09:48 PM
Yesterday at 09:48 PM
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Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Alaska
Originally Posted by newfox1
One things for sure, that one ain’t getting no bigger. Lol

It probably hasn’t for quite some time. The Tongass is over ripe, it’s dying where it stands

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406763
Yesterday at 10:05 PM
Yesterday at 10:05 PM
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49th State
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mad_mike Offline
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49th State
Originally Posted by AK Timber Tramp
Originally Posted by newfox1
One things for sure, that one ain’t getting no bigger. Lol

It probably hasn’t for quite some time. The Tongass is over ripe, it’s dying where it stands


Yep, protected until it goes to waste. You look around SE AK and the forest doesn’t look predominantly healthy.
Those cedar, hemlock, and spruce can only reach for the sky so long, before falling down.

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: Gary Benson] #8406764
Yesterday at 10:08 PM
Yesterday at 10:08 PM
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The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
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Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Originally Posted by Gary Benson
They take over pastures. Good deer habitat but not good pasture.



We have mountain juniper around here but most ppl call it cedar. It is the same way and hard on anyone with allergies.


�What�s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.�
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406770
Yesterday at 10:17 PM
Yesterday at 10:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
AK, tell your wife BP said those cedars are "mas complicada que la cagada de un tullido".


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: I hate red cedar [Re: beaverpeeler] #8406771
Yesterday at 10:19 PM
Yesterday at 10:19 PM
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Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Alaska
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
AK, tell your wife BP said those cedars are "mas complicada que la cagada de un tullido".

I’ll read this to her when I talk to her next lol

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406775
Yesterday at 10:24 PM
Yesterday at 10:24 PM
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Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Alaska
Yeah Mike, they had the right plan in the 70’s around here, cut it all and let it start over. Sealaska pulling the plug on logging operations was the worst thing that’s happened here since the pulp mill closed in Ketchikan

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406788
Yesterday at 10:49 PM
Yesterday at 10:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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Idaho
Originally Posted by AK Timber Tramp
Originally Posted by humptulips
I grew up next to a shake mill and while I learned to dislike the smell it would be hard to dispute its utility as a roofing material. Yellow cedar doesn't come close. I have cut up Western Red Cedar windfalls that had 8-foot stumps growing over them. You won't find that with yellow cedar. Yes, you can do more with a Red cedar than a yellow cedar on the stump and they save better just because red cedar is more brittle but the sheer volume of red cedar that has been cut gives it more utility.
I have some beautiful stretching boards made out of western red cedar, superior to yellow cedar IMO.

I can appreciate red cedar…after it gets to the mill lol. My perspective and opinions come from being the guy who’s gotta cut it, so I appreciate trees that are willing to work with me a little bit, and reds are low on that list for reasons every cutter can agree with. It’s by no means the worst, in fact most tree species have at least some annoying qualities. Hemlock has bad rot issues in certain stands, and is prone to windshake in the butts. Spruce limbs (especially in old growth) are hard as iron. Alders like to barberchair unless you cut them all the way off. Red cedar I’ve complained about enough for today. And yellow cedar are God’s tree, they’re perfect lol. I also really like the Doug Fir they have in WA, OR, and parts of CA, but it gets real hard and cobby if you go east of the cascade mountains

Do you have white fir there? Old growth white fir is worse than hemlock in my opinion. You will get into stands of it where every one is just a shell with the whole core rotted out. I've seen them just explode into toothpicks when a saw was put to them. Now tamarack is a nice tree to fall and buck, very seldom rotten, very few limbs, and not a lot of taper. They do tend to shatter though if you screw up and hit a stump with them. And yeah, spruce limbs suck, for those of you who have never dealt with them, go watch a chaser limbing spruce in the half light of dawn, you can see sparks fly from the chain.

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: bearcat2] #8406803
Yesterday at 11:09 PM
Yesterday at 11:09 PM
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Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Alaska
Bearcat, we don’t have white fir, but I’ve cut quite a bit of it down south, old growth white fir and old growth hemlock are almost apples to apples. A lot of the old growth hemlock is just a rind of wood around the stump, you’ll have a 6 foot tree with 3 inches of wood holding it up on all sides, those can be an adventure (especially near a unit boundary, beach zone, or salmon stream)

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406812
Yesterday at 11:57 PM
Yesterday at 11:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
NWWA/AZ
Vinke Offline
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NWWA/AZ
Me to…. I have to truck it 50 mile to then be put into a log boom and floated down south….
No money left…..

Took a full long load out and only ended up with 3 g after paying my faller friend 700….


[Linked Image]


Ant Man/ Marty 2028
just put your ear to the ground , and follow along

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: Vinke] #8406816
18 hours ago
18 hours ago
Joined: Nov 2024
Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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Joined: Nov 2024
Alaska
Originally Posted by Vinke
Me to…. I have to truck it 50 mile to then be put into a log boom and floated down south….
No money left…..

Took a full long load out and only ended up with 3 g after paying my faller friend 700….


[Linked Image]

What happens with ours depends on who owns the wood, and the diameter. Forest service allows 60% export, state ground allows 75% export. The red cedar under 30” on the scale end (small end) gets milled locally, anything larger goes export, usually to Canada. Yellow cedar is mostly export, same for large diameter spruce, and hemlock can go either way. Private ground (owned by and individual, company, or native corporation) can be 100% export.

Re: I hate red cedar [Re: AK Timber Tramp] #8406818
18 hours ago
18 hours ago
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Alaska
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AK Timber Tramp Online content OP
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What I was getting at with that is, since those are your trees, you could have potentially sold them as export at a greater rate. What did it scale? Cedar usually hovers between $1500-$2100 per thousand feet

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