What yall think?

Excellent, a needed tool fir sure.

A major lawsuit just sitting there waiting to be filed!

Ogorman told me that you had to have a permit to use the ones in the old days. I think it is the same with farmers buying ag sprays. Always have to jump through hoops and a lot of red tape.

Not a big deal out here if the sign rules is used, other wise, lots of problems with bird hunters especially quail and grouse

It's always the same thing , users think no one will be out there in that area when they set up for coyotes, until they ride back around on a check and see the place all tore up !!

We used lots of them around the sheep ranches. Paid attention to hunting seasons and pulled everything during.

Used up to 500 of them at times. Followed all the use restrictions and signing requirements to the letter and other than a complaint or two from bird hunters about not being able to hunt a pasture with their dogs no problems (they knew they were there because all ranch and pasture gates had signs on them). According to records I kept on all the various equipment I used, M44s were by far the most humane and most selective ground tool available for coyote work. 99% canines and 95% coyotes.

Won’t be long before someone screws up with one again.

That's what I figure. There's always one idiot out there.

Which idiot are you referring to....the trespasser I hope.

Who is a trespasser on public land

IS it public land my understanding is private ranches? My mistake...

One of the best tools for coyote control. And the most misunderstood tool out there " (such as cyanide bomb)". "Expolsive device" Ignorance is a dangerous thing, just look at Our politicians. Scott

Moot point here in Oregon! Banned by the state several years ago.

This ruling is for public, not private land.

Yep , I believe montana certified trappers and gov. trappers are still
using them here.
They still fly and use dogs / call more than anything.

Scary to think about a new USDAWS employ, making 12$ hrs i

Thanks bearcat for the info on the PUBLIC LAND...I misunderstood.

a big no on public land... private land is a differant story can and should be used.

It is a terrible idea. I first heard about these things back in the 1970s and thought of how in-discriminate they must be. And I still think that. Many non-target animals that we, as trappers, try to avoid were, and would be, killed un-intentionally. I know that myself, as well as pretty much every trapper I know go out of our way to be discriminant with our sets, even refusing sets that just might catch un-intended critters.
The M-44 is obviously a lethal "set" and can be "set off" by many different animals, including raptors, any canine, cats, humans, etc. And the idea that this would be ok on public land is idiocy.

Quite the opposite actually.

It’s the most selective tool I use outside of a rifle, killed several thousand coyotes with them and only 1 coon and 1
Skunk. Heck I’ve killed more non targets with my truck driving to check equipment most weeks then I have in 28 years of running M-44s.

yes very effictive tool but needs to be set accordingly to be selective. back when i worked usda-adc here in idaho i had one certain spot on private land for smaller flock of sheep. after looking over the area i choose not to use legholds or m-44s...set snares and calling instead. this property was to close to to house of another neighbor land...long story short a few years ago another adc trapper set m44 on the property line between the 2 places and ended up killing a black lab and putting a young boy in the hospital. the general public dont decipher between the tools used for trapping they just know it was a trapper that done it. gives all trappers a black eye. we have alot of hounds hunters here and hounds have been killed aciedently staying on to private land. so i dont think m44s have anyplace or need to be set on public land...the best tool for taking alot coyotes is by flying it. as m44s will kill alot of non target fox and a few bobcats.

Bob, Idaho still is not using them because of the one incident in Eastern Idaho. Wasn't sure of legality just know that supervisor of Wildlife Services here in Idaho is not allowing his guys to use them.

Like any of the tools used, some times you have to use a little common sense on where you set them, private or public land. Should you be able to use any lethal on public ground? To me a body grip is no different in the end results. Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is a good idea, no matter what you are setting or using. Most problems come from people not using their head and thinking about what can happen.

Good points Mark. Common sense prevails.
Off topic a bit but it relates to the post. Here in Illinois, we can't use snares on dry land....just half in half out of the water. I can't tell you how many times I've been limited by that rule while trying to remove problem beaver.
Let trappers get the job with ALL of the tools available!

Like I said before, the lack of education shines in comments on here from "trappers".

I agree with Scott. Too many comments on this thread sound like anti-trapper comments about traps.

Its just good news to here the government giving back freedoms instead of taking them away

....are you in favor of m-44s on public land?

Too many bird hunters on public land for this to be a good idea. On the other hand, bird hunters hate foot traps and snares too.

Yes, with common sense and proper signage they can be used.

dogs and non target animals dont read signage and common sense should tell you not to set leathal guns on land with public access, people either dont see the signs or somelse takes them down or when they do see signs they dislike trappers for having leathal guns where they want to enjoy the outdoors. ( non leathal means is differant story)....doge needs to look into ADC alot of tax payer waste there along with wildlife waste , goverment trappers need to be held to the same standards as regular trappers are.....setting leathal on private land is a differant story setting with signs and common sense can work.

Not all public land is equal.


There are parcels that see a lot of activity, and others that literally see none.

That’s where the common sense of the user comes into play.

....i get it but is it worth the risk? i have worked both sides of the fence on this issue.we need to look at who it benifits! not trappers as whole but when things go south with m44 it is all trappers that will take the hit...antis will use these instances for all trapping to be stopped on public land .... only goverment trappers can use m44s they are only ones using them!!! why put all trappers at risk of loseing public land use. these type tacics only benifets usda-adc trappers protecting livestock from predation. if livestock owners want protection thats fine (there already only paying pennies on the dollar for public land grazing ) they should pay for it not taxpayers. ADC should be desolved and given to the private sector. more uneeded goverment waste it costs several thousand taxpayers dollars per coyote removed and there are more coyotes today then when the program was started! .....ADC.another bloated goverment progam

wallfur, talking about ADC shows how far you are behind on what is going on. There is no government ADC anymore.

i still talk with them unless it changed as of last year,,,,,fill us in lol...so who going to be using the m44s private trappers?.....

...mark just made a phone call there still working in are area maybe your the one thats behind.ADC or APHIS pretty much the same thing

I would think you would know there has been no ADC for years, since you worked for them. Were you ADC or WS? Are you just anti Government trapping or anti APHIS. Or maybe anti USDA.

to stay on topic anti m44s on public ground! private ground fine should be the landowners call.

Wallfur, I don't think it's really something to be concerned about. It would be a case-by-case basis. I doubt you will ever see M-44's placed on public ground. I would guess that most USDA supervisors would discourage or even allow M-44's on public ground. As far as BLM, not all areas are open to unrestricted use, even then I would guess they would try all other alternatives before even applying them in those situations. Even though Trump lifted the ban on BLM, I don't think you'll see much of it ever happening.

yeah i agree but now days ya never know dont take much to cause a big uproar.i just dont want to see trappers lose more privileges because of one dumb act. m44s do not benefit the private trappers but they will be the ones that suffer when things go south. ..alot of the landlocked/restricted blm ground ia already being treated as private ground anyway! got to love skinning those yellow mouthed critters and the smell of cyanide in the morning lol i am done posting here carry on!

…. I need to set some around here with a tamale on the trigger

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately I have met enough government trappers to agree with wallfur on this one. A couple of the best trappers I knew were government trappers, at least at some point, but also a couple of the worst trappers with little to no common sense.

Some of you should move to a cage trap only state. You would sleep better and not get the drizzles over what someone else was doing. Watch your own bobber. There is a much better chance of problems from body grips and foot holds then M-44s. Most ideates don't have easy access to cyanide.

We really need to be careful saying “no” to stuff based on common sense usage.


“Common sense says we shouldn’t …………”, use your imagination.


Tis a slippery slope.