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Interesting article. 62% of illegal immigration is due to visa overstays, not illegal border crossings. Mexicans account for less than half of illegal immigrants in the US. What do we do about it? Quit issuing visas, and just not have any immigration at all?

(None of this is to say that we don't need a wall, I think a wall provides economic benefits to the US)

I'm not sure I believe the statistic in that article.

"lies, (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) lies, and statistics", as they say.

Do you have any evidence to show otherwise, or just your intuition?

Technically, a visa overstay is not illegal immigration. They came here legally, then became illegal when the visa expired.
What do we do about it? Well, nothing, apparently.
Detroit is 9.9% white population now. Chicago is 34% white. Houston is 34% white. On and on. It is so overwhelming by mass numbers nothing can be done, especially when those in political office refuse to do anything.
Some will scream white supremacy but statistics are statistics. I guess we call it evolution and deal with it.
I have a Mexican neighbor who came here when he was 18. He is now in his 30s at least. Married to a legal American and they have a child. He said it's not worth trying to apply for a visa as he has to send for paperwork back in Mexico, and it takes a couple years. I'd guess many illegals don't even have a birth certificate in their country of origin, but I may be all wet.
You know we're losing the battle, when Killery won the popular vote! We retained America by a very slim margin and look how our President is being slandered publicly without consequence.

Gary, coming on a visa is legal immigration, but once you over stay it, you become an illegal/undocumented immigrant. I'm not sure what skin color has to do with any of this though...

Well, what color is the skin of the illegals sneaking into the country???

Illegals account for 6% of California’s population or 3 electoral college votes

White, off-white, light brown, dark brown, black, yellowish, peach, redish....I think that about covers it. Maybe we can discuss their eye color too, or possibly the fact that most of them are less than 6'6" tall? Maybe we can imply that all people under 6'6" tall are criminals, as long as we're implying that skin color has something to do with criminality.

That fact is not convenient to those who want the focus on the southern border. Just like 99% of known and suspected terrorist that were caught from Oct. 1, 2017, to March 31, 2018 did not come though that border. And of the 41 who were caught there, 35 were either citizens or legal permanent residents.

Our politicians and their teams are masters as promoting distorted "facts" to gain support for cause they favor. It is dishonest and misleading, but most of them have been at it so long that they believe it as perfectly acceptable.

"Fake news" is anything but limited to only one of the parties.

No I don't have any objective evidence - just personal, anecdotal observations and healthy skepticism of anything I read or hear - especially from sources such as npr, which I listen to regularly.

No I don't have any objective evidence - just personal, anecdotal observations and healthy skepticism of anything I read or hear - especially from sources such as npr, which I listen to regularly.

Unless you've seen or met millions of illegals personally, I'm not sure anecdotes or personal experiences count. That's like saying "I've set coyote traps for the last 5 years, and only ever caught 1, and I've only seen 2 coyotes in person, so clearly there are very few coyotes in Nebraska". Sometimes what you see isn't the way things are. Healthy skepticism is good, but if you're going to counter an argument, you've got to produce some sort of evidence of your own to support your argument. I can argue all day long that there are only a handful of coyotes in Nebraska, but I've got no evidence to support that except my own personal, anecdotal observations. (I'm a terrible coyote trapper by the way )

Keep that blindfold over your eyes, and you won't see what's happening to our country! Carry on fellas.

Who's wearing the blindfold? The guy that uses evidence to show that most illegals come over legal and then overstay their visa, or the guys that say that's not true but can't produce any evidence show otherwise, or perhaps bring in skin color to the conversation when it has nothing to do with the mode of entry into the country?

I am skeptical of any reporting on either side. Here is why.

I am very knowledgeable on few subjects. Because of a lifetime of participating in trapping and hunting (55 years hunting, 53 trapping) I am experienced in them both. Hopefully we can agree that ther is little substitute for experience.

On this site do we not reach out for guidance from those with more experience? Thus experience to me mTters.

However, everything I read or hear from people with no knowledge of either of the above subjects is from flat out wrong to insanely wrong.

Sooooooo.......... the news, pundits, political figures, etc likely are espousing stuff they have no experience in. I figure what I am reading/seeing on a subject is likely wrong. This being based on the misinformation on subjects I do know.

Any data can be spun. Kids being killed by guns. The gun haters include all “kids” up to age 21. It includes gang shootings of criminals in this group. It includes innoncent children shot by these gangs.

So a person who is nuetral on guns hears this huge number and thus are swayed by what they hear.

Most numbers when it comes to illegals is a guess, there are 12 to 22 million here now. Pretty hard to say 60 some percent over stayed their visas.

President Trump is trying to give border patrol,homeland security and Ice the tools necessary to secure our borders.
Some just want to argue around it.

The Trump Admin. is trying to find out how many non citizens actually live here ,
an obama judge is trying to stop them , I wonder why the establishment doesn't want us to
know exactly how many there are ? Bet it would be shocking .N.Y. Times

Gary Benson:
Loosegoose:

I know exactly what the issue here is with the Liberals, RACISM! They will bring that issue up everytime when their argument is squashed.
They really don't have any other grounds to defend.

npr is real bad, propaganda at its worst......

NPR presents both side of the news storys they cover far better than most other sources. Their commentary pieces lean left, but they usually have someone that presents the counterpoints of what is being discussed.

If one wants to see fake news, purposely omitted facts, blatant favoritism, he only has to watch fox, msnbc, or cnn. Probably best to watch a little of all three just to see how each does it's best to mislead their listeners.

News was better when it didn't have to compete for listeners and viewers as the focus of how and what it reported.

I know exactly what the issue here is with the Liberals, RACISM! They will bring that issue up everytime when their argument is squashed.
They really don't have any other grounds to defend.

I'm sorry to say, you're confused seniortrap. I'm not a liberal. The only thing worse than the typical conservative is the typical liberal My argument has not been squashed; it's quite the opposite in fact. I'm the only one so far in this thread to provide any shred of evidence to support my position.

Just yesterday I'm having lunch with some friends that are older/wiser for the time.
We're discussing health care and the border issue. Its well know as the table of Knowledge locally. We discuss plenty of things.

All of a sudden a young lady of maybe 20 comes up and starts yelling at us.

"You guys shouldn't be talking about politics. You only be talking about health care, not the wall"!

Apparently she was an uninvited person in the discussion. I even mentioned to her, "I'm sorry I didn't know we invited you to join in"!

She stormed back to her table and boyfriend. Which I never noticed any specifics.

As she is heading to the door, she yells "what's it matter what color his skin is"?

This comment got one of our ladies sitting to say, "Your the one who brought up race, we didn't"!

As she leaves, the boyfriend leaves also, and I looked and I believe he may have been Mexican!
A quick observation as per the attention that was brought to mind. No one else noticed. I guess because we are all RACISTS!

Then as the young man passed the window outside, We signed off with we were number one! Nice.

In fact, maybe(not knowing) he may have been here on an expired visa. But I won't assume.

Touché!

I'm sure the starving women and children in the caravans coming towards the border have their visas in hand....

Hollering RACIST is the best argument they got. You racist!

Loosegoose: Your opinions are not facts. Proof is material presented to back your argument.

And the reason Detroit went down the crapper IS because it's 9.9% white. If there were NO whites, I'm sure it would be thriving.

That's not evidence. Those caravans don't account for the majority of illegal immigrants. Further, most of those people aren't getting in. Further, asylum cases are not counted as illegally crossing the border. Further, only approximately 10% of asylum cases are approved currently; the rest are sent home. Gotta try harder than that Gary News story? Blog post? Statistics? something? Anything?

What opinion did I present? I presented a news article that referenced a study. Nobody else has referenced anything but "anecdotes and personal experience".

Is loosegoose another word for goosewiththesquirts?

Skin color has nothing to do with Detroit being a disgusting ghetto that I wouldn't visit if my children were there in the hospital:) Detroit is a dump because of massive corruption and a legacy of democrat control, along with a decline in American automotive power.

Maybe:) My last name is loos, pronounced los (long O sound). It's commonly mispronounced loose, and when I was in tech school the nickname was given to me.

.......Deep breath , not going to try arguing with this crowd

but....

NPR ...is Not balanced any more than the rest.

Personal experience for me has been 40 years in the auto industry with 2 years in the Army.

At which time it was/is my experience that a lot of Liberal crap is being shoved down peoples throat.

Opening your eyes and being blind is easy to do when watching NPR. Same with PBS.

My observation in 71 years of life.

I don't disagree with that. They're a liberal news source, but they referenced a study, so they're not just making it up off the tops of their heads. And, like I already said, nobody else has presented a shred of evidence to show that the majority of illegals come here another way besides visa overstays.

To be honest, I'm not sure why this is so controversial. I stated in the very first post that this wasn't to say that I'm opposed to a wall.

There is a lot of liberal crap being shoved down our throats, I don't disagree. But your experience in the army and the automotive industry does not equal evidence to show that the majority of illegals don't get here through visa overstays.

Lets just put up the wall and get back to the business of controlling the border!

And for those who OVERSTAY their Visas, round them up(if you can find them) and ship them back.

A study promoted by the Center for Migration Studies (CMS) is frankly, not too valid. Any and all "studies" are able to be set in the way the organization conducting the study wants them to go simply by how the asked questions are framed and/or where the questions are asked.
If you look at New York, where CMS is from, you will have a disproportionate amount of visa overstays because of the 3 major airports there. Go outside the city even 60 miles where I am and it is primarily from south of the border.
But lets use their figures and say 38% are from illegal border crossing. If a wall cuts down 1/3 of that amount it would be 13% of the illegals coming in. The wall would still be a huge savings considering the amount we pay for educating, policing and healthcare for those 13%.

NPR present news that allows one to think and form his own opinions. That's probably be too foreign an idea for those who listen to foxnews or msnbc to be able to see it. Of course many see nothing wrong when a person says things like-"alternate facts", "The truth isn't the truth!", "They didn't build that."

Too many care more about who gives them information than where or not the info is true or that they are shown all sides of the news....too much work for most.

What evidence do you have to show the study isn't valid? Perhaps you have a different study showing that most illegals get here by coming over the border illegally, and not by overstaying their visa? I'd love to see it if you can show it to me. What evidence do you have to support your position that the majority of illegals 60 miles outside of new York are from south of the border? Did you ask them? Just because they're Mexican doesn't mean they crossed the border illegally, they may be here on expired visas.

I agree completely.

There are a few pundits on Fox that would compare to MSNBC or some of the other liberal news networks"Hannity comes to mind". I'll put it to the closet Libs on here name me one host on any network other than Fox that has a conservative host. I'll bet you can't.

Yep, one step at a time.

This article says that one study is at 44% and another is at 65%. What I can't figure out is how there doesn't seem to be any hard numbers, just guesses and estimates when they have a paper trail.

Fact check on illegals

None. But that begs the question....why are news hosts conservative or liberal? News is facts, not opinion. Commentary on the news is opinion. For example: News is saying "a recent study shows that for the 7th year in a row, most illegals come to America legally on a visa, and then don't leave when their visa expires. Discussing whether or not said study is legit, whether what the study says is good or bad, what the study means, what we should do about it, etc etc is commentary, not news.

Most news agencies don't even call theirs "hosts" as does Fox. They call them reporters.

This is the part you're referring to...A Center for Migration Studies report estimates that 44 percent of those in living in the U.S. illegally in 2015 were visa overstays. That’s up from an estimated 41 percent in 2008.

The CMS report, written by Robert Warren, a former director of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service’s statistics division, says 65 percent of net arrivals — those joining the undocumented population — from 2008 to 2015 were visa overstays.

First off, those numbers are from 2015, so keep that in mind. What the statistics are saying is that of the total population of illegals currently living in the US, 44% are visa overstays. Of illegals coming to the US between 2008 and 2015, 65 % were visa overstays.

Fox is like Groney, they both rock.

wr otis reads my post, says some stuff that doesn't entirely make sense ("That's your opinion, of your comprehension, of another man's opinion of the factuality, of the source of information"...what does that mean? It's gibberish), and then doesn't post anything to refute the study


Maybe this all goes back to the common sense thread from a few days ago.....common sense says that if you want to refute a study, you cant just declare it to be wrong, based on anecdotes. You have got to be able to produce some sort of evidence to support your position.

Your position is based on an article that is a estimate, is it not?

Your position is based on an article that is a estimate, is it not?

Yes, estimates are all that is available, so the study used the best info possible.

What is your position based on? Nothing?

And seriously, why is it such a big deal that most illegals come trough visa overstays and not though illegal border crossings? It doesn't diminish the need for a wall at all.

Your evidence is based on estimates, the way it looks, no one knows the exact number. That in of itself is disturbing as there is a paper trail. Yes, build the wall and bring the number of illegals down that cross illegally. As far as the visa overstay's, they need a better system apparently. If they come through a port of entry, then they should have to leave through it on a specified day. If they don't show up, and disappear into the shadows, it's kinda hard to find them. Maybe a long prison sentence needs to be attached to the visa and signed by the applicant to give incentive to leave when they are supposed too.

Dude! I never stated for a fact that the statistics in the article were false. I only said that I have serious doubts. And I have reason for those doubts. Not proof, but good reason to doubt.

Perhaps I should ask you to explain how you know for a fact that this statistic is accurate. Hmmm?

Even if the statistic is accurate (which I will not concede), if we can reduce that 35% to 10% it will make it well worthwhile to BUILD THE WALL.

Furthermore, the purported 35% of people from God knows where with who knows what diseases and criminal history crossing the river for unknown purposes is probably the percentage of illegal immigrants that cause the greatest concern. The ones who have initially received a visa received at least a cursory initial screening and had job or classroom lined up before they got here.

The burden isn't on me to prove my statistic, the burden on you to disprove it. KInda like if I said the sky is green, and you said no, its actually blue, the burden is on you to disprove me (yes, I used an example where I was wrong and it would be easy to disprove me, just to illustrate my point) Are your reasons to doubt based on some sort of evidence? Facts? Statistics maybe? Why do you doubt the study I showed?

I have worked with hundreds if not thousands of illegals that openly admitted so and none of them overstayed there visas.I have close friends that are illegal and have heard there stories. If you don't, know any illegals you have no way knowing how huge a problem this is. Each illegal working in the US is using stollen Identity. The company I worked for was audited by homeland security we had to ask all employees for additional documents if you could not provide them you were let go we lost 95% of the Hispanics and none of the non Hispanic employees.. Homeland did not take anyone into custody they just let people leave. I personally new all the employees that left they just bought new ID,s and found other employment. The company was using th gov,t program that verified scial security numbers the gov,t program only can say if the number is a valid number but not the name of the person. The problem is bigger than government will admit. Illegals are not taking government or high paying professional jobs so those people care less about the problem since it does not affect them like blue collar factory workers.

There are a lot more than hundreds or thousands of illegals, it more on the order of millions. You talking to hundreds if not thousands is not evidence, it's an anecdote. Otherwise, I'd agree with everything else you said.

82% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

The beauty of illegals is that they're......well, illegals. Undocumented. Nobody knows anything about them except maybe sometimes the Soc Sec. # that isn't theirs. No facts to prove anything. Nobody knows who they are, where they're from, where they are, or how many there are. Oh, and that they're harmless, and only here to better themselves.

Only talking about the ones I have experience with not the total

Hispanic people from North, Central and South America and the Hispanic Islands get a very large percentage of the Visas that the US gives out. Just because someone came here on a Visa, does not mean they are not an illegal alien, of Hispanic descent, once they illegally stay past it's expiration. Hispanic people from North, Central and South American and the Hispanic Islands also make up the overwhelming amount of illegal aliens that sneak across the US border too.

Just talking about the Mexicans and Mexican statistics is a trick liberals use to trick stupid people into ignoring the huge number of Hispanics from other countries. Stupid and uneducated people think all Hispanics are Mexican.

The statistics are on line at:

https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...istics/nonimmigrant-visa-statistics.html

If you have a few hours to waste and nothing better to do, check it and the hundreds of other data compilations out.

Keith

A friend of mine had a meeting in San Diego, CA. He said on the street it was hard to find anyone who spoke English.

Is that 100% of the time?

I've brought this up on here many times with no takers. I can name a number of them on FOX. That's why it's fair to say FOX is more fair and balanced than the others.

I understand that. But you've got to understand that your experience in know way means this study is wrong, any more than my lack of ability to catch a coyote means that coyotes are rare in Nebraska.

LOL, his experience just like anyone's can prove YOUR study wrong as they are guessing by pitching numbers up to the wind. What exactly is your point of this thread may I ask?

My point is if you have no experience or understanding of who they are you don't,t know nothing other than what the press tells you

LOL, his experience just like anyone's can prove YOUR study wrong as they are guessing by pitching numbers up to the wind. What exactly is your point of this thread may I ask?

I'm afraid you're confused. Talking to hundreds or even thousands of illegals doesn't prove that most illegals get here by crossing the border illegally. Your sample size is too small. It's like catching 3 coyotes with fried chicken for bait and declaring that fried chicken is an excellent coyote bait. It might be, but you've not caught enough to make a decision one way or the other, all you've proved is that some coyotes are attracted to fried chicken. In the same sense, talking to hundreds or thousands of illegals isn't a large enough sample to prove anything. It just proves that the ones you talked to came over illegally by crossing the border. In other words, his experience doesn't dispprove this study, it just proves that the small sample of illegals he's talked to came by crossing the border illegally.

The point of my thread was just to show an interesting statistic. I didn't know people would get so upset over it, and for the life of me, I'm still not sure I understand why it would bother anyone so much, I've stated twice already that having 60 some percent get here by overstaying their visas in no way diminishes a need for a wall.

The numbers this study used are from border patrol/ice apprehensions, it's the best anyone can get for an estimate of how these people get here. Where do your numbers come from? Thin air, apparently, because you, along with everyone else that disagrees with this study, has shown zero evidence to show that the study being discussed here is wrong.

These lefty's on here have never spent much time in any south western state or its borders.

On another similar thread awhile back i challenged the liberals on here to take a field trip to east LA , i would give them $ 100 bucks for every American flag they seen. Of course no takers

Good grief, your study is like all the rest, based not on fact but on estimated figures. Your study is not more relevant than the other pointed out. I haven't seen anyone upset that more illegals may be coming in through a different way than crossing the southern border. I think what has kept this thread going so long is the fact that we are astonished that there are no facts lol. Prove your pulled out of the air statistic is better than the other pulled out of the air statistic lol. We killed a bear but pop shot it.

I'll say it again more directly. The article was written to trick stupid people, who think all Hispanics are Mexicans. The article makes stupid people happy because it sounds like the problem of illegal aliens invading from the Southern border is shrinking because less illegal alien Mexicans may be entering the US. The reporters are counting on stupid readers not thinking of the hordes of Guatemalans, Ecuadorians and huge masses of other Central Americans, South Americans and Hispanic Islanders invading through our Southern border.

Mexicans, the people talked about in the article, are a subgroup of Hispanics.

Hispanic does not equal Mexican, even if stupid people believe it does.

There is no accurate way to count how many illegal aliens enter, live in, or leave the US.

Keith

So, in other words, you all don't like the study because it some people may think it shows a lesser need for a border wall. Gotcha. At least that makes sense. I would say a border wall is still necessary, 30 something percent is still a large number. As far as the study being wrong, I'm not sure how many more different ways I can say it. I put forth a study to support something, and you all have disagreed. That's all fine and dandy. Studies are wrong sometimes, they can use for methodology, small sample sizes, skewed questions, etc. But here's the thing: Nobody has shown any evidence. Not a shred. Zip. Zilch. Nada. You're telling me it's wrong, but you're pulling it out of your butts, unless you can show me otherwise. Prove your point. Show me a study that shows a majority of arrested illegals crossed the border illegally. Show me statistics that most immigrants on visas go home. Show me the methodology used in the study and explain to me why it's wrong. Show me statistics from the border patrol/ice. Something. Anything. Be able to argue your point with evidence, instead of just telling me I'm wrong with nothing to back it up. Iff you can't support your position, then why would I even begin to change my mind?

Who cares about your study or any other for that matter.

Its been a serious problem for decades and if we dont take drastic measures now, it will become irreversable

I would agree that's it's a serious problem that needs to addressed. No arguments there.

Here's what's happening here as I see it...

My position: most illegal immigrants are here by way of overstaying visas, not illegal border crossings.
My evidence: A news article that quotes a study.

Everyone else's position: your wrong!!!
Everyone else's evidence:. *crickets chirping*

.

How would anyone know how many illegals sneak across the border? Over staying a visa is known number the other is a guess.

Only two other people on this entire thread sounded like they were sure you were wrong about most illegal aliens being here by overstaying their visas. Your reading comprehension is bizarre. Go back, read the thread and try to name 3, out of the large number who posted, who said they knew you were wrong.

Keith

Exactly!!

Now I hear those crickets lol.....

The study published Friday by Mohammad Fazel-Zarandi, a senior lecturer at MIT’s Sloan School of Management, estimates there are about 22.1 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. today. Most frequently cited estimates put the number between 11 and 12 million.

https://dailycaller.com/2018/09/21/mit-study-illegal-immigrants-double/

This is from a study done by MIT. They go on to explain why the the total can very that much. How in the world can ANYONE claim to know when it can not be verified? I see most of these counts as no more then a SWAG. I do know when I was in west central Illinois that the packing houses were almost all Latino workers. There was in one I know had a warning system for raids by ICE. They would filter back in a week or so later. The packing house was in shut down until it could restaff. Many of the construction jobs are filled by them as well.

It is a huge problem weather they came in with a visa or if they walked across the border. I say build the wall to help stem the flow then concentrate on way to weed the rest out. Kind of like trying to bail a boat or with a hole bigger then the bucket we are bailing with now as I see it.

Churp churp....;.

The one spot on observation in this thread: News was better when it didn't have to compete...

I'm pretty sure that anyone who wanted to come here to work in a packing plant wouldn't have a problem getting a green card.. But they do have to apply instead of just forcing their way in.

No crickets! Just in bed getting my beauty rest

How about 8?

Kart 29: I'm not sure I believe the statistic in that article.

Gary Benson: I'm sure the starving women and children in the caravans coming towards the border have their visas in hand....

Seniortrap: Loosegoose: Your opinions are not facts. Proof is material presented to back your argument.

Eric space: A study promoted by the Center for Migration Studies (CMS) is frankly, not too valid. Any and all "studies" are able to be set in the way the organization conducting the study wants them to go simply by how the asked questions are framed and/or where the questions are asked.
If you look at New York, where CMS is from, you will have a disproportionate amount of visa overstays because of the 3 major airports there. Go outside the city even 60 miles where I am and it is primarily from south of the border.
But lets use their figures and say 38% are from illegal border crossing. If a wall cuts down 1/3 of that amount it would be 13% of the illegals coming in. The wall would still be a huge savings considering the amount we pay for educating, policing and healthcare for those 13%.

Rat Masterson: Most numbers when it comes to illegals is a guess, there are 12 to 22 million here now. Pretty hard to say 60 some percent over stayed their visas.

Wr Otis: Loosegoose reads some propaganda which happens to be on NPR, and declares the article absolute fact. That's your opinion, of your comprehension, of another man's opinion of the factuality, of the source of information. Here's what makes that absolute truth, NOTHING. Not your opinion, and not reporters.

Flipper: My point is if you have no experience or understanding of who they are you don't,t know nothing other than what the press tells you.

Please note that in all the above comments? Everyone tells me they're not sure my statistic is true, or that it's an opinion, or that I just don't know, etc, etc. Yet nobody offers their own evidence to refute what I said.

How about this....present some evidence. Show me something, anything, to show that most illegals come through the border and not through overstayed visas. Otherwise you're just blowing hot air.

https://www.politifact.com/californ...-visa-overstays-account-half-all-people/

Here's a fact-check article. Hard to tell, since we don't really know how many cross illegally. stop these people and we will have a better idea of who's here and who's not.

(I'd sooner have a college student overstay their visa, than a drug dealer stay who crossed illegally.)

Loosegoose, the MIT study was where I got my 22 million illegals, prove there not here. This study holds the same credibility as yours.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...rep-gutierrez-says-40-percent-illegal-i/

" Specifically, the estimate ranged from 38 percent to 50 percent. The report split the difference by proposing a figure of 45 percent.

So based on this measure, Gutierrez is accurate. In fact, he's being cautious, sticking to the low end of the spectrum.

It is still just a GUESS.

Gooses article cherry picked the two years illegal crossings were low (to raise the %) to write an article against Trumps wall.

Per the article, it's the last seven years that visa overstays have exceeded illegal border crossings, not just the last two. And illegal border crossers still far outnumber visa overstayers in the overall population of illegals currently living in the US, indicating that border crossing used to be by far the most popular way for them to get in, it's just in the last 7 years that visa overstays have been more popular.

And I'm not opposed to a wall.

That politifact article is from 2010, 9 years ago. The article I posted said visa overstays have been the leading method of illegals on the last 7 years. So the politifact article may very well be accurate for all I know, but it doesn't do anything to refute the article I posted.

The 62% number you quoted was for two years.

From the article I posted "a new study finds that for the seventh consecutive year, visa overstays far exceeded unauthorized border crossings.

The report released Wednesday by the Center for Migration Studies of New York finds that from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally."

62% were visa overstayers In 2016 and 2017, but it also says that this is the 7th year visa overstayers have exceeded illegal crossings. I haven't looked up past years data. but I'd have to logically it's somewhere between 50% and 62%.

And look at the group they got their numbers from for the article. hmmmmm

I'll put more faith in the other research that has been posted.

What other research? Can you direct me to the other research that was posted? I must have missed it. Seriously. I'm open to looking at it.

The important word I used was "sure".

Keith

Ones like the one i posted above.

Even they say there are no hard numbers, just estimates, exp. for the years your article states as fact.

Here it is again...........
https://www.politifact.com/californ...-visa-overstays-account-half-all-people/

From your study...That report estimated visa overstays in 2014 accounted for 42 percent of the total undocumented population, or about 4.5 million people. It also projected that overstays made up about two-thirds of the total number of people who became unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. that year.

Most of the illegals here came through illegal border crossings, that's true. But that's counting all illegals, whether they came here last year or 20 years ago. Most of the people who have come here in the last seven years have come though on overstayed visas.

And that's a guess, since there are no hard numbers, as it states.

Pretty much goes like this.

If an article is to show a wall won't help, they skew the numbers their way. To show a wall works, they skew them the other way.
Fact is, neither know for sure since about 2006, or if someone in the gov't does, they aint putting the numbers out.

Those articles are trolling articles, imo.

Kinda like the global warming studies

Visa overstays are a problem will give you that BUT being our economy is now booming that can change. I do believe when we have groups of THOUSANDS traveling thousands of miles to get here the border being secure FIRST.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...immigrants-arrested-at-new-mexico-border

For a little proof in the pudding.Now we have another group headed here to add to the mess. Patch the biggest holes in you boat before you can hope to bail it out before it sinks. Shut down ALL visas until can find a way to stop the overstayers.

I would agree to that. I've read that the Obama economy is a huge reason that illegal border crossings were/are down, and the Trump economy could easily change that.