No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Do fisher kill lynx? #6512171
04/07/19 11:10 AM
04/07/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
A few months ago we discussed this in detail and many did not believe a little 10 pound fisher could kill a big mean 30 pound lynx. Well last July the researchers in Maine published the results of a 12 year study in The Journal of Wildlife Management 82(8):1775–1783; 2018; DOI: 10.1002/jwmg.21538. It is an interesting read (especially for me as I trap in the area they studied). I could not find the complete study, Fisher Predation on Canada Lynx in the Northeastern United States, on line but I can email the pdf to you if you message your email address to me. You might be able to read the report here if you monkey around a little: https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.21538

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512181
04/07/19 11:29 AM
04/07/19 11:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 488
Maine
beezmador Offline
trapper
beezmador  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 488
Maine
Seems that there is plenty of evidence to support it, especially larger male fishers...and now Maine has made trapping fisher so much more challenging. Misguided regulations at best....

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...shers-prey-on-Canada-Lynx-in-Maine-news/


Member of NTA, MTA and FTA - keeping up the Fight for our Right to trap
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512198
04/07/19 11:45 AM
04/07/19 11:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 17,770
New Hampshire
N
Nessmuck Offline
trapper
Nessmuck  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 17,770
New Hampshire
[Linked Image]


Good read ! Thanks for posting


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512199
04/07/19 11:48 AM
04/07/19 11:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,718
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,718
McGrath, AK
Man that's a pretty small sample to draw that conclusion. 12 instances of MAYBE a fisher killing a lynx in 12 years ?? It would take more than that to convince me that it happens on a regular basis.


Mean As Nails
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512229
04/07/19 12:43 PM
04/07/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Table 3. Mortality sources of 65 Canada lynx in northern Maine, USA,
1999 and 2011.
Mortality source n
Predation by fisher 14
Predation by unknown predator 2
Likely predation by fisher 2
Starvation 17
Undetermined 17
Legal harvest in Canada 7
Illegal harvest 3
Vehicle collision 2
Disease (hyperthyroidism) 1

The illegal harvest were two shot in traps & on found (with tracking collar) behind a couch in someone's living room, if I remember correctly.

Last edited by ebsurveyor; 04/07/19 12:47 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512234
04/07/19 12:47 PM
04/07/19 12:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
Maybe a kitten or a starving lynx would be vulnerable.
A big adult lynx-no way a fisher would find that a desireable target among other plentiful targets that would be way easier.The speed at which a lynx can cover ground when attacking is unmatched.Their long large back legs are like springs.I have seen lynx cross a hiway in one bound from shoulder to center to shoulder faster than I can say it.In winter the poor fisher would be at such a disadvantage it would be no contest.
The fisher would be slashed to ribbons.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 12:53 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512237
04/07/19 12:51 PM
04/07/19 12:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by Boco
Maybe a kitten or a starving lynx would be vulnerable.
A big adult lynx-no way a fisher would find that a desireable target.
The fisher would be slashed to ribbons.


Table 5. Demographic information and body condition of 14 resident Canada lynx killed by fishers in northern Maine, USA, 1999 and 2011.
Lynx
identification Sex
Age
class
Cementum
age
Date of estimated
mortality Status of carcass
Weight of remains
(kg)
Bone marrow
conditiona
L6 F Adult N/A 24 Jan 2000 Partial (head absent) 5.9 Healthy
L8b F Kitten 0 yr 8 mo 24 Jan 2000 Whole 6.2 Healthy
L36 F Adult Not aged 10 Jan 2002 Whole 7.9 Not collected
L38 F Adult 4 yr 6 mo 20 Nov 2002 Partial (head and neck present) N/A
L44 F Adult 4 yr 9 mo 20 Feb 2007 Partial (4 legs present) Healthy to fair
L67 F Adult N/A 28 Jan 2006 Partial (head and legs absent) 5.0 Not collected
L93 F Adult 5 yr 8 mo 25 Jan 2009 Partial (head, neck, and 4 limbs
present)
Not collected
L96 M Adult N/A 3 Feb 2007 Partial (front half of body absent) 5.4 Healthy
L125 F Adult 4 yr 9 mo 13 Feb 2007 Partial (viscera and hindquarter
absent)
5.8 Healthy
L114 M Adult 5 yr 10 mo 10 Mar 2010 Partial (neck, head, hind quarters
present)
Fair
L137 F Adult N/A 3 Feb 2007 Partial (head absent) 5.3 Healthy
L140 M Adult N/A 5 Mar 2009 Partial (clumps of hide present) N/A
L156 M Adult N/A 7 Apr 2009 Partial (legs and viscera present) 5.2 Fair
L157 M Adult Not aged 15 Feb 2009 Partial (head, neck, and one leg
present)
Healthy
a Bone marrow was classified as healthy when white, solid, and waxy, malnourished (fair) when red and solid, and poor when red and gelatinous (Cheatum
1949).
b A kitten without a radio-collar was found cached at the same site as the partial carcass of its radiocollared mother, L6.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512239
04/07/19 12:56 PM
04/07/19 12:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
It is unlikely that fishers killed lynx in Maine as a result of a
specific, learned behavior by 1 or 2 individuals, nor as a result
of preying upon weaker individuals. Instead, the spatial and
temporal distributions of lynx mortalities (Fig. 2) encompassed
the territories of multiple radio-collared fishers over a
12-year period (MDIFW, unpublished data), suggesting
that fishers were opportunistic predators of lynx. In addition,
during the first 8 years of the study when snowshoe hare
densities were >1 hare/ha, only female lynx were killed by
fishers, possibly because of their smaller body size. However,
when hare densities declined to <1 hare/ha, more lynx were
killed (64%) and both male and female lynx were killed,
suggesting that fishers were opportunistically killing what
they encountered (Golightly et al. 2006).
Although fishers are not as well adapted as lynx in
environments with deep snow because of their shorter legs,
they are better adapted to these conditions than other
predators in the region that have a higher foot-load (e.g.,
coyotes; Krohn et al. 2004). The absence of other known
predators of lynx (e.g., wolverines, mountain lions, wolves) in
northern Maine, along with favorable habitat conditions,
may have created a unique opportunity for fishers. Although
fishers are smaller and weigh less than lynx (x¼4.6 kg,
n¼20; MDIFW, unpublished data), they are aggressive
predators, which under the right circumstances can give
them an advantage over lynx. Despite the size difference, our
data show that fishers are capable of selecting a more
profitable prey item in winter (Type III functional response),
but there was no information to demonstrate that fishers are
competitively excluding lynx from habitats, or are limiting
the range or number of lynx in Maine.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512255
04/07/19 01:13 PM
04/07/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
The guy that wrote that is an idiot.
Every trapper in Lynx country knows that the major predator of lynx is other lynx.In fact the only major predator.
Wolves will take the odd one if they can catch one in the open which is very rare.
I would say with confidence that any lynx that were scavenged by fisher were killed by other lynx at the low end of the hare cycle.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512260
04/07/19 01:19 PM
04/07/19 01:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
I followed up with Scott McLellan regarding this study after the discussion on here a few months ago. He swears by it, and welcomed anyone to contact him for more info. I didn't bring it up again because I didn't think it was worth arguing about....people are going to believe what they want to believe, and many just will not be convinced that a fisher can kill a lynx, regardless of the evidence.

Wow, come to think of it, this is eerily similar to the East vs West debate over whether bobcats kill deer, back in the 1930's and '40's!!!!

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512262
04/07/19 01:20 PM
04/07/19 01:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,334
Maine
M
Mac Offline
trapper
Mac  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,334
Maine
The very worst thing that has EVER happened to the Maine trapper is when that f---ing Lynx moved over the line. That very movement has ended true long line fisher and marten trapping in Maine, as well badly hampered canine and actually any other trapping.



Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512265
04/07/19 01:21 PM
04/07/19 01:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Boco
The guy that wrote that is an idiot.
Every trapper in Lynx country knows that the major predator of lynx is other lynx.In fact the only major predator.
Wolves will take the odd one if they can catch one in the open which is very rare.
I would say with confidence that any lynx that were scavenged by fisher were killed by other lynx at the low end of the hare cycle.


Boco he's not an idiot, and neither are you. Just different experiences in different places.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512269
04/07/19 01:24 PM
04/07/19 01:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
If he doesn't know that the main predator of lynx is other lynx then he is "uneducated" or has an agenda.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512271
04/07/19 01:27 PM
04/07/19 01:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Fisher Predation on Canada Lynx in the
Northeastern United States
SCOTT R. MCLELLAN,1,2 Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA
JENNIFER H. VASHON, Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA
ERICA L. JOHNSON,3 Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA
SHANNON M. CROWLEY,4 Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA
ADAM D. VASHON,5 Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA

Hey Boco, bottom line. They trapped 187 lynx, equipped 85 with radio-collars, and investigated mortalities when they occurred. 65 of 85 died during the study. Tracks in the snow don't lie.

L6 F Adult N/A 24 Jan 2000 Partial (head absent) 5.9 Healthy
L8b F Kitten 0 yr 8 mo 24 Jan 2000 Whole 6.2 Healthy
L36 F Adult Not aged 10 Jan 2002 Whole 7.9 Not collected
L38 F Adult 4 yr 6 mo 20 Nov 2002 Partial (head and neck present) N/A
L44 F Adult 4 yr 9 mo 20 Feb 2007 Partial (4 legs present) Healthy to fair
L67 F Adult N/A 28 Jan 2006 Partial (head and legs absent) 5.0 Not collected
L93 F Adult 5 yr 8 mo 25 Jan 2009 Partial (head, neck, and 4 limbs
present)
Not collected
L96 M Adult N/A 3 Feb 2007 Partial (front half of body absent) 5.4 Healthy
L125 F Adult 4 yr 9 mo 13 Feb 2007 Partial (viscera and hindquarter
absent)
5.8 Healthy
L114 M Adult 5 yr 10 mo 10 Mar 2010 Partial (neck, head, hind quarters
present)
Fair
L137 F Adult N/A 3 Feb 2007 Partial (head absent) 5.3 Healthy
L140 M Adult N/A 5 Mar 2009 Partial (clumps of hide present) N/A
L156 M Adult N/A 7 Apr 2009 Partial (legs and viscera present) 5.2 Fair
L157 M Adult Not aged 15 Feb 2009 Partial (head, neck, and one leg
present)
Healthy
a Bone marrow was classified as healthy when white, solid, and waxy, malnourished (fair) when red and solid, and poor when red and gelatinous (Cheatum
1949).
b A kitten without a radio-collar was found cached at the same site as the partial carcass of its radiocollared mother, L6.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512284
04/07/19 02:04 PM
04/07/19 02:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 547
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 547
Northern WI
Very interesting study results, I am surprised with the fisher preying on Lynx, in northern Wi, I have been blaming the abundance of bobcats on our dwindling fisher population. Because of competition for food not killing each other.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Line Jumper] #6512301
04/07/19 02:32 PM
04/07/19 02:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by Line Jumper
Very interesting study results, I am surprised with the fisher preying on Lynx, in northern Wi, I have been blaming the abundance of bobcats on our dwindling fisher population. Because of competition for food not killing each other.




Kill more bobcats.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512304
04/07/19 02:44 PM
04/07/19 02:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
With the small amount of remains left,they definitely didn't investigate the kills when they occurred.Several days later by the amount of scavenging done on the carcasses.A fisher will not scavenge half a carcass at one sitting,but a couple of lynx from a family group can.
Fisher do not prey on lynx.
Lynx prey on lynx when the hare cycle crashes.
Lynx also kill the odd fisher.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 02:46 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512305
04/07/19 02:44 PM
04/07/19 02:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Boco
If he doesn't know that the main predator of lynx is other lynx then he is "uneducated" or has an agenda.


Is it possible that the main predator of lynx in northern Maine is NOT other lynx?

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512306
04/07/19 02:50 PM
04/07/19 02:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
No,cannibalism is a well known behavior in lynx and well recorded.All trappers know this also.
No trappers have ever reported fisher killing lynx that I am aware of.
Has a fisher ever killed a lynx?Yes most likely.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 02:52 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512315
04/07/19 03:05 PM
04/07/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Maybe it makes a difference if you are on the southern range for lynx (northern Maine) or on the northern range of fisher (where boco is). Northern Maine has some lynx and LOTS of fisher. My guess is where Boco is they have lots of lynx and some fisher.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512317
04/07/19 03:06 PM
04/07/19 03:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
I just did a little investigating and discovered this guys agenda.He wants to create an ongoing job for himself.
This Mclelland guy is an assistant bio,and states that he needs to do more extensive collaring of both fisher and lynx to support his "theory",lol.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512327
04/07/19 03:23 PM
04/07/19 03:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,286
NNY
0
080808 Offline
trapper
080808  Offline
trapper
0

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,286
NNY
A lot of gouverment is about justifying employment.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512331
04/07/19 03:26 PM
04/07/19 03:26 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
J
Jonnytrapper Offline
trapper
Jonnytrapper  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Looks like they sneak up on them when they are bedded down and latch onto the neck. Not a straight up fight face to face so no advantage to the lynx for size. Then they dismember them and hide the pieces that's why so much damage in a short time.

"Lucky for the researchers, many of these attacks happened during the dead of winter and evidence could be seen in the snow."


"Based on the appearance of the tracks, an attack by a fisher on a lynx would often happen in the middle of a quick snowstorm, which may have worked to the advantage of these vicious little predators. A fisher would attack, often when the cat was bedded down to wait out the snow flurry, going right for the lynx’s neck.

“They just buckle on. They have a pretty powerful grip and they know where to attack,” McLellan says, adding that the fishers would finish the cats off pretty quickly. “There was some struggle certainly, but it didn’t appear to last very long. There were some broken branches, tufts of fur, and claw marks where the lynx was trying to get away.”

Once the lynx were dead, the fun had just begun for the gruesome fishers. The weasels would begin to dismember the fresh lynx carcass and hide pieces in various places, likely since it couldn’t eat the whole 20-to-30-pound body in a single sitting."

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512342
04/07/19 03:38 PM
04/07/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Boco
No,cannibalism is a well known behavior in lynx and well recorded.All trappers know this also.
No trappers have ever reported fisher killing lynx that I am aware of.
Has a fisher ever killed a lynx?Yes most likely.


I like you and respect your knowledge and experience Boco. But I can't help myself, so I'll rephrase my question.

Is it possible that you DON'T know more about northern Maine's lynx population than the trappers who live and trap here, and the biologists who have spent a good part of their careers studying it extensively?

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512358
04/07/19 03:52 PM
04/07/19 03:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 547
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 547
Northern WI
Originally Posted by ebsurveyor
Originally Posted by Line Jumper
Very interesting study results, I am surprised with the fisher preying on Lynx, in northern Wi, I have been blaming the abundance of bobcats on our dwindling fisher population. Because of competition for food not killing each other.




Kill more bobcats.


Its a slow process with one tag every 10 years, no wait they increased the amount of tags, 6-8 years if your lucky.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: jwood] #6512379
04/07/19 04:12 PM
04/07/19 04:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
Originally Posted by jwood
Originally Posted by Boco
If he doesn't know that the main predator of lynx is other lynx then he is "uneducated" or has an agenda.


Is it possible that the main predator of lynx in northern Maine is NOT other lynx?


Why would Maine be different ?


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512383
04/07/19 04:16 PM
04/07/19 04:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
Originally Posted by Boco
I just did a little investigating and discovered this guys agenda.He wants to create an ongoing job for himself.
This Mclelland guy is an assistant bio,and states that he needs to do more extensive collaring of both fisher and lynx to support his "theory",lol.

Every study has an employment protection factor involved in it.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512385
04/07/19 04:17 PM
04/07/19 04:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
The bio is full of it.If they always attack in a snowstorm how can he read the tracks-BS big time.
Grab a lynx by the neck and see what he does with his razors.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512412
04/07/19 04:49 PM
04/07/19 04:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Boco
The bio is full of it.If they always attack in a snowstorm how can he read the tracks-BS big time.
Grab a lynx by the neck and see what he does with his razors.


You answered my question Boco, thanks.

EB, better take down the study. It's obviously fake news written by a bunch of hacks trying to justify future employment smile

I feel like we're trying to reason with anti's!!! We're all such legends that there's no possibility that we don't fully understand what's going on in these populations?

If i get time tonight I'm going to post an article by Walter Arnold from back in the 'do bobcats kill deer' debates. The parallels are incredible.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512434
04/07/19 05:13 PM
04/07/19 05:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,870
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,870
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Boco
The bio is full of it.If they always attack in a snowstorm how can he read the tracks-BS big time.
Grab a lynx by the neck and see what he does with his razors.


Oh heck! Hold my Beer and watch this!


Who is John Galt?
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: joepennanti] #6512457
04/07/19 05:44 PM
04/07/19 05:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
Fishers are clearly killing lynx my arse.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512461
04/07/19 05:49 PM
04/07/19 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
Fisher are killing lynx (in northern Maine) AND the Earth isn't flat. Can you imagine that?? shocked

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512462
04/07/19 05:49 PM
04/07/19 05:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,020
central Missouri
B
Bigfoot Offline
trapper
Bigfoot  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,020
central Missouri
If you guys in Maine ever want to trap Fisher again like you used to you need to get behind this study like it's gospel. That's what the politicians do any study that supports what that what they want becomes the gospel the talking point, the ultimate truth .you MUST Reduce the fisher population IMMEDIATELY to protect the lynx.

Last edited by Bigfoot; 04/07/19 05:52 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512463
04/07/19 05:49 PM
04/07/19 05:49 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,369
mn north of blakely
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,369
mn north of blakely
Here in MN they are studying bobcat mortality on female fisher. There is pretty good evidence that it is somewhat prevalent.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512466
04/07/19 05:51 PM
04/07/19 05:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
Lynx killing fisher has been noted here also by trappers,Not common at all either,opportunity killing while laying for rabbit. Lynx ambush prey often and also family groups co-operatively hunt. Flush/drive and ambush.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 05:56 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Bigfoot] #6512481
04/07/19 06:13 PM
04/07/19 06:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Bigfoot
If you guys in Maine ever want to trap Fisher again like you used to you need to get behind this study like it's gospel. That's what the politicians do any study that supports what that what they want becomes the gospel the talking point, the ultimate truth .you MUST Reduce the fisher population IMMEDIATELY to protect the lynx.


Maine trappers have been citing the fact that fisher kill lynx for years now, and the argument hasn't gotten much traction. If you go by the Feds' standard of 'no take' of a listed species under the ESA, then yes, we need to be killing more fishers to protect lynx. But in reality, I think the 'take' argument is a joke. The science shows that lynx population abundance is controlled by habitat (and corresponding abundance of snowshoe hares). The real scientific and ethical argument is that lynx should not be considered threatened in Maine under the ESA. Once delisted, there is potential to get back to traditional trapping methods that allow trappers to effectively harvest fisher. And the added benefit that would provide to the lynx population would be a bonus.

The changing forest in northern Maine and impacts to lynx, fisher and marten populations is a fascinating topic, which I think we will all begin to understand more about in the coming years. I certainly have a lot to say about it, right or wrong.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Steven 49er] #6512485
04/07/19 06:19 PM
04/07/19 06:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Here in MN they are studying bobcat mortality on female fisher. There is pretty good evidence that it is somewhat prevalent.


I am thinking that the biologists in ME have come a little late to the study. And that their study fits an agenda.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512490
04/07/19 06:20 PM
04/07/19 06:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 958
eastern washington
B
BillyTraps Offline
trapper
BillyTraps  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 958
eastern washington
" We collected forensic evidence and samples from the carcasses and predation sites, conducted full necropsies when possible, and used molecular methods to determine species of predators responsible for killing fishers. We recovered 101 (59 female, 42 male) fisher carcasses; for 62 (61%) carcasses, we attributed cause of death to interspecific killing. We found that bobcats (Lynx rufus, ;25 fisher mortalities), mountain lions (Puma concolor, ;20), and coyotes (Canis latrans, 4) were predators of fishers in our study areas. Bobcats killed only female fishers, whereas mountain lions more frequently killed male than female fishers, confirming our hypothesis that female fishers would suffer lethal attacks by smaller predators than would male fishers. Coyotes rarely killed fishers."

source: https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.698

I thought some might find this interesting.

Last edited by BillyTraps; 04/07/19 06:22 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: trapper les] #6512495
04/07/19 06:25 PM
04/07/19 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by trapper les
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Here in MN they are studying bobcat mortality on female fisher. There is pretty good evidence that it is somewhat prevalent.


I am thinking that the biologists in ME have come a little late to the study. And that their study fits an agenda.


So you are saying that biologists in Maine have an agenda to allow us to harvest more fisher? Pro trapper? Not saying I have an opinion, but I think most Maine trappers would argue with you on that.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512512
04/07/19 06:36 PM
04/07/19 06:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
I think the agenda is clearly self serving for the assistant bio.He wants some job security as in a 25 or 30 year ongoing fisher/lynx study that will bring him to pension age.
Only problem is that his theory is so lame in regards to established scientific as well as traditional knowledge,(which carries the same weight today in many circles),it wont go anywhere.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 06:39 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Bigfoot] #6512513
04/07/19 06:37 PM
04/07/19 06:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by Bigfoot
If you guys in Maine ever want to trap Fisher again like you used to you need to get behind this study like it's gospel. That's what the politicians do any study that supports what that what they want becomes the gospel the talking point, the ultimate truth .you MUST Reduce the fisher population IMMEDIATELY to protect the lynx.



Bigfoot makes at least three intelligent guys posting on the thread.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512516
04/07/19 06:40 PM
04/07/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,443
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,443
western mn
I can't imagine a Fisher taking on and beating a lynx.


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: trapper les] #6512526
04/07/19 06:54 PM
04/07/19 06:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by trapper les


Why would Maine be different ?



Here is how: All of Maine is heavily logged. Maine has a large population of Moose, fisher, coyotes & bears throughout their lynx zone. Our fisher in northern Maine are small and mean. I have only killed about 50 of them with close to half caught in foothold traps Never caught one over 11 pounds. I usually don't comment about what I don't know. Many on here don't know what they don't know. I would guess Boco' trapping area is not heavily clear cut and swarming with fishers like Northern Maine is. Maine's lynx are not aggressive. I know of several that were released by just reaching the trap and depressing the springs. Dirt talks about catching them by the neck and them raking with their claws. Off the record I have catch poled more than I'll admit and not one has ever raked at the pole. All they do is pull away. I have walked into the catch circle and put a noose on them with no display of aggression from the lynx. About 50% will not leave the trap location after they are released. Just maybe a northern Maine lynx that grows up in a log yard is different from a wilderness lynx that can be trapped and killed. Maybe an are were lynx are under populated & fisher are over populated is different then an "area" were the reverse is true. BTW: I have "counted coup" on several lynx in footholds and have not been bitten or clawed and I don't care if you choose to not believe it.



[Linked Image]

Last edited by ebsurveyor; 04/07/19 07:15 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: BillyTraps] #6512540
04/07/19 07:07 PM
04/07/19 07:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by BillyTraps
" We collected forensic evidence and samples from the carcasses and predation sites, conducted full necropsies when possible, and used molecular methods to determine species of predators responsible for killing fishers. We recovered 101 (59 female, 42 male) fisher carcasses; for 62 (61%) carcasses, we attributed cause of death to interspecific killing. We found that bobcats (Lynx rufus, ;25 fisher mortalities), mountain lions (Puma concolor, ;20), and coyotes (Canis latrans, 4) were predators of fishers in our study areas. Bobcats killed only female fishers, whereas mountain lions more frequently killed male than female fishers, confirming our hypothesis that female fishers would suffer lethal attacks by smaller predators than would male fishers. Coyotes rarely killed fishers."

source: https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.698

I thought some might find this interesting.


Billy Traps, no bobcats to speak of where jwood & I tread. I guess the big mean lynx ate them all. Just kidding. 100 years ago when "Wildcat Lunch" hunted & trapped where I do bobcats were common and fisher & lynx were scares.

Last edited by ebsurveyor; 04/07/19 07:08 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512544
04/07/19 07:10 PM
04/07/19 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
J
jwood Offline
trapper
jwood  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 515
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Boco
I think the agenda is clearly self serving for the assistant bio.He wants some job security as in a 25 or 30 year ongoing fisher/lynx study that will bring him to pension age.
Only problem is that his theory is so lame in regards to established scientific as well as traditional knowledge,(which carries the same weight today in many circles),it wont go anywhere.


So you're back to criticizing the biologist conducting the study because the results challenge your 'expertise'. In your extensive research you failed to gain an understanding of the assistant bio position at MDIFW. Scott no longer does research, and will not be the lead on any future lynx work in the state, nor will he rely on any research for job security. This has nothing to do with 'protecting a job' and it bothers me that you guys attack the integrity of professionals because you disagree with the results. The results of this work are unique....that's why the work was published in a scientific journal....to advance our knowledge of the species population interactions. Things are not the same in Ontario, Alaska, or Maine. Thinking you know it all, and those whose findings disagree with yours must have an agenda, says more about you than anything else.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: bucksnbears] #6512546
04/07/19 07:12 PM
04/07/19 07:12 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,369
mn north of blakely
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,369
mn north of blakely
Originally Posted by bucksnbears
I can't imagine a Fisher taking on and beating a lynx.


I think a 15 pound toe headed male fisher thinks he's the baddest thing in the woods. Female and kitten lynx could be in trouble.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512548
04/07/19 07:12 PM
04/07/19 07:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
Every one I have foot trapped and put a snare on to dispatch has been like a crazy windmill.The lynx in that pic looks like a yoy kitten.
Like I said before I did a little looking into it and that bios agenda seems pretty clear calling for more and extended collaring studies on both fisher and lynx.
I also give a lot of weight to the traditional ecological knowledge of the trappers which is much more subjective and qualitative than strict science,which is objective and quantitative only.
I know that fisher as an opportunistic hunter\scavenger would take lynx kittens if the opportunity arose.
As far as a predator of Adult lynx,I think that guy would be laughed out of a room full of northern trappers with years of bush experience.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 07:25 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512554
04/07/19 07:23 PM
04/07/19 07:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by Boco
Every one I have foot trapped and put a snare on to dispatch has been like a crazy windmill.


I know a guy that released 10 from footholds and not one of them showed the slightest form of aggression. The pole was just tight enough so the lynx couldn't slip it off. I'm sure the wild wilderness lynx of Alaska & Canada are mean S.O.Bs. I'm also just as sure that the lynx of the log yards of Northern Maine are not.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512555
04/07/19 07:23 PM
04/07/19 07:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,426
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
M
martentrapper Offline
trapper
martentrapper  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,426
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
I'm with Boco. The study is baloney and the people doing it are full of baloney!
mt

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512556
04/07/19 07:24 PM
04/07/19 07:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,148
M.T.V. Alaska
Y
yukonjeff Offline
trapper
yukonjeff  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,148
M.T.V. Alaska
I have had wolverines circle lynx in traps, and left it alone.
Have also saw my pet ferrets take down my full grown house cats. So never underestimate the weasel family.
I doubt they prey on lynx though. Perhaps it's happened before but I would need proof to believe it.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512563
04/07/19 07:30 PM
04/07/19 07:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
I know the guy that held the head to the side, depressed the trap springs with his feet and with a free hand pulled the lynx's foot from the trap. No sign of aggression from this large male. It was a little touch and go after the release as the lynx walked toward the trapper and wouldn't go away after the release.

[Linked Image]

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512566
04/07/19 07:33 PM
04/07/19 07:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Here's me and one of the meaner ones:

[Linked Image]

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512582
04/07/19 07:45 PM
04/07/19 07:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,870
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,870
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by ebsurveyor
Originally Posted by trapper les


Why would Maine be different ?



Here is how: All of Maine is heavily logged. Maine has a large population of Moose, fisher, coyotes & bears throughout their lynx zone. Our fisher in northern Maine are small and mean. I have only killed about 50 of them with close to half caught in foothold traps Never caught one over 11 pounds. I usually don't comment about what I don't know. Many on here don't know what they don't know. I would guess Boco' trapping area is not heavily clear cut and swarming with fishers like Northern Maine is. Maine's lynx are not aggressive. I know of several that were released by just reaching the trap and depressing the springs. Dirt talks about catching them by the neck and them raking with their claws. Off the record I have catch poled more than I'll admit and not one has ever raked at the pole. All they do is pull away. I have walked into the catch circle and put a noose on them with no display of aggression from the lynx. About 50% will not leave the trap location after they are released. Just maybe a northern Maine lynx that grows up in a log yard is different from a wilderness lynx that can be trapped and killed. Maybe an are were lynx are under populated & fisher are over populated is different then an "area" were the reverse is true. BTW: I have "counted coup" on several lynx in footholds and have not been bitten or clawed and I don't care if you choose to not believe it.



[Linked Image]



Huh? I just volunteered to fight one. I don't live in Lynx country. The few I caught died easy. The one I caught alive was dispatch with the thing that I put nails in with. Apparently he wasn't faster than me. smile In my world all things are possible.

Seriously, I caught one in a 110:dead. Hardly any sign of struggle. What kind of bad arse big animal dies in a 110?

Last edited by Dirt; 04/07/19 08:26 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: yukonjeff] #6512585
04/07/19 07:46 PM
04/07/19 07:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by yukonjeff
I have had wolverines circle lynx in traps, and left it alone.
Have also saw my pet ferrets take down my full grown house cats. So never underestimate the weasel family.
I doubt they prey on lynx though. Perhaps it's happened before but I would need proof to believe it.


Funny you should bring that up. A few years back (2015) when I used mostly footholds two coyotes came across a marten in my trap and they ate it. The coyotes traveled down the line and came across this male fisher. They made a lot of tracks around the fisher but stayed out of the catch circle.


[Linked Image]

my marten:

[Linked Image]

Not an uncommon sight from the truck window:

[Linked Image]

Last fall I saw three fisher from the truck and three lynx from the truck.

Last edited by ebsurveyor; 04/07/19 07:48 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512590
04/07/19 07:53 PM
04/07/19 07:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
To lighten this up a little here is a nice trophy whitetail from the North Maine Woods. I could have shot him as it was in season, but I stopped shooting deer 20 years ago.

[Linked Image]

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512659
04/07/19 08:56 PM
04/07/19 08:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
Probably caught someones pet.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Dirt] #6512665
04/07/19 08:59 PM
04/07/19 08:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
An otter [Linked Image]
An otter is way tougher than a fisher-maybe they kill lynx too.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512673
04/07/19 09:07 PM
04/07/19 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
I am not convinced that a fisher can consistently take and prey on adult lynx. But, we have fisher, and few lynx. And more bobcat.


Agenda wise ? Every biologist is suspect to me and wants to prolong or engage in a study at my expense.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Dirt] #6512688
04/07/19 09:28 PM
04/07/19 09:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 199
NH
T
thebeaverguy Offline
trapper
thebeaverguy  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 199
NH
Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Boco
The bio is full of it.If they always attack in a snowstorm how can he read the tracks-BS big time.
Grab a lynx by the neck and see what he does with his razors.


Oh heck! Hold my Beer and watch this!


No problem, I'm in.

Cool pictures there, EB.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512755
04/07/19 11:15 PM
04/07/19 11:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,718
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,718
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by ebsurveyor
Originally Posted by Boco
Every one I have foot trapped and put a snare on to dispatch has been like a crazy windmill.


I know a guy that released 10 from footholds and not one of them showed the slightest form of aggression. The pole was just tight enough so the lynx couldn't slip it off. I'm sure the wild wilderness lynx of Alaska & Canada are mean S.O.Bs. I'm also just as sure that the lynx of the log yards of Northern Maine are not.



I'll bet most Alaska trappers have pretty much the same experience with lynx as I do. Most of them never move or make a sound. They just sit there and wait for the lights to go out. Very docile. I know of one instance where a cat shredded the coat and pants of a TMAN member.

I think it's entirely possible that fisher are taking the occasional lynx . When you consider that an ermine will attack a critter many times his size, why wouldn't another member of the weasel family do the same ?

But as I said above, when you can show 12 instances in 12 years it isn't a very strong case for saying that this is a regular occurrence


Mean As Nails
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: white17] #6512946
04/08/19 08:36 AM
04/08/19 08:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by white17

I'll bet most Alaska trappers have pretty much the same experience with lynx as I do. Most of them never move or make a sound. They just sit there and wait for the lights to go out. Very docile. I know of one instance where a cat shredded the coat and pants of a TMAN member.

I think it's entirely possible that fisher are taking the occasional lynx . When you consider that an ermine will attack a critter many times his size, why wouldn't another member of the weasel family do the same ?

But as I said above, when you can show 12 instances in 12 years it isn't a very strong case for saying that this is a regular occurrence


There is some confusion here by the national geographic article that someone posted. My information is from the report posted in the Journal of Wildlife Management. I think the snow storm info is only found in the Nat. Geo article. I find it interesting that more than 75% of the collared lynx died during the study and 20 % of those were killed by fisher. The study area was in about 3% of the area known as The North Maine Woods. It is entirely possible the fisher are killing dozens of lynx in Maine each year. Legal trapping has killed two in the past few years & under the terms of the "incidental take permit" if a third lynx is killed by legal means trapping in Maine will be stopped. Bottom line: trappers kill two and fisher kill more so the government makes all trapping more difficult with special regulations. They also make special regulations for marten/fisher trapping that make it very difficult to trap said animals.

From the journal:

"we captured 187 lynx (83 females, 104 males) and equipped
85 with radio-collars (41 females, 44 males) between 1999
and 2011. The mean weight of adult male and female lynx
was 11.3 kg (range¼8.2–15.0 kg, n¼101) and 9.0 kg
(range¼7.0–10.5 kg, n¼58), respectively. We documented
the mortality of 65 lynx including 61 collared lynx, 1
unmarked kitten of a collared female, and 3 ear-tagged lynx.
We determined that 18 lynx were killed by predators, 17 died
of starvation, 17 from undetermined causes, 12 from human
factors (e.g., vehicle collisions), and 1 from hyperthyroidism
(Table 3). We determined that fishers had killed 14 lynx (9
females, 5 males) and likely killed 2 additional lynx (2
females). We could not determine the species of predator for
the remaining 2 lynx (1 female, 1 male; Table 4).
Thirteen of the 14 lynx killed by fishers were adults with
established home ranges, and weights and bone marrow
indicated that these lynx were healthy or in fair condition"

Last edited by ebsurveyor; 04/08/19 09:15 AM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512966
04/08/19 09:35 AM
04/08/19 09:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,489
OK
Aaron Proffitt Offline
trapper
Aaron Proffitt  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,489
OK
Interesting thread ...


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512967
04/08/19 09:36 AM
04/08/19 09:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7,309
On Georgian Bay, Ontario Canad...
H
Hutchy Offline
trapper
Hutchy  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7,309
On Georgian Bay, Ontario Canad...
I also find the study funny. Reminds me of a recent facebook post of someone who found a fisher near barrie. Posted it on a facebook news site and the public lost their minds. Nothing a fisher wont kill! It will tear your kids face off! Kill it!!! Kill it!!

Have found several tangled in snares. Grab them by the scruff, untangle and away they run. Do wear gloves, as they get a mite scratchy, but they are no voracious indiscriminate killing machines. Bad news if you are a prey species, but man I would put money on the lynx coming out on top when it comes to a fight.

Or maybe our ontario lynx are ten feet tall and bulletproof

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512971
04/08/19 09:45 AM
04/08/19 09:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,880
Williamsport, Pa.
J
jk Offline
trapper
jk  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,880
Williamsport, Pa.
Wow and they are so easy to release from a trap, just like bobcats. Now otter that is a different story = they are just mean and nasty.......jk


Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. Whats supposed to be ain't always is.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512978
04/08/19 09:54 AM
04/08/19 09:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,870
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,870
Armpit, ak
This all could be related to densities. Very few cats. Lots of fishers. The odd fisher killing the only cat and they are an important source of predation.

Last edited by Dirt; 04/08/19 10:01 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513019
04/08/19 10:58 AM
04/08/19 10:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,058
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
trapper
Fisher Man  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,058
Adirondacks, NY
Over all what difference does it make?

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Fisher Man] #6513022
04/08/19 11:02 AM
04/08/19 11:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7,482
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7,482
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by Fisherman
Over all what difference does it make?


Not much. When you look at the incidental trapping take on lynx compared to all the other mortality factors it makes the exercise almost pointless.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Fisher Man] #6513032
04/08/19 11:10 AM
04/08/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by Fisherman
Over all what difference does it make?


It makes a big difference to us that trap there. We have to trap with very restrictive regulations because of the presence of lynx. We are allowed to kill three in ten years while fishers are probably killing more then that each year. So they make more restrictive laws for the trapping of fishers to protect the lynx. If you can't see what difference it make you must be a federal government employee. I'm not saying that in a bad way, but only the feds would think that killing fewer fishers is protecting the lynx.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513033
04/08/19 11:10 AM
04/08/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
I would say, open up the fisher season wide open in ME and excuse incidental killed by man, lynx. If that's possible.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: jk] #6513037
04/08/19 11:12 AM
04/08/19 11:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by jk
Wow and they are so easy to release from a trap, just like bobcats. Now otter that is a different story = they are just mean and nasty.......jk


JK about 10% of the fishers I've trapped are almost impossible to get out of a foothold with out using the 22 method.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513089
04/08/19 12:44 PM
04/08/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,718
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,718
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by ebsurveyor
Originally Posted by jk
Wow and they are so easy to release from a trap, just like bobcats. Now otter that is a different story = they are just mean and nasty.......jk


JK about 10% of the fishers I've trapped are almost impossible to get out of a foothold with out using the 22 method.



I think JK is talking about lynx being easy to release. Not fisher


Mean As Nails
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: trapper les] #6513091
04/08/19 12:48 PM
04/08/19 12:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by trapper les
I would say, open up the fisher season wide open in ME and excuse incidental killed by man, lynx. If that's possible.


No can do. Maine has an incidental take permit that allows three to be killed in a ten year period. Two were killed in the first month of the permit & they closed all bodygrip trapping (on land or trees) for the remainder of that season.. One more by legal trapping methods and Maine will be closed to trapping.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: white17] #6513093
04/08/19 12:49 PM
04/08/19 12:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by white17



I think JK is talking about lynx being easy to release. Not fisher


You are probably correct.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513104
04/08/19 01:09 PM
04/08/19 01:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,718
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,718
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by ebsurveyor
Originally Posted by trapper les
I would say, open up the fisher season wide open in ME and excuse incidental killed by man, lynx. If that's possible.


No can do. Maine has an incidental take permit that allows three to be killed in a ten year period. Two were killed in the first month of the permit & they closed all bodygrip trapping (on land or trees) for the remainder of that season.. One more by legal trapping methods and Maine will be closed to trapping.



Sounds like another good reason to do away with body grips


Mean As Nails
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513106
04/08/19 01:13 PM
04/08/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 34,458
james bay frontierOnt.
No snaring allowed either I presume?

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513109
04/08/19 01:20 PM
04/08/19 01:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 23,669
williams,mn
It seems like a bad dynamic to occur...lynx numbers increase, incidental take increases. Trapping is outlawed.

It's a good thing you have them fisher around there to keep the population down.

I see sort of a catch 22 situation though.

Last edited by trapper les; 04/08/19 01:21 PM.

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6513113
04/08/19 01:28 PM
04/08/19 01:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline OP
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,322
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by Boco
No snaring allowed either I presume?


Correct, after all a lynx might see a snare and that would upset it.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513243
04/08/19 05:05 PM
04/08/19 05:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 237
Ticonderoga,NY
saquelie Offline
trapper
saquelie  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 237
Ticonderoga,NY
There is a vid on You Tube of a Fisher trying to kill a Grey Fox if it wasent for the camera man I think he would of done it.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513251
04/08/19 05:21 PM
04/08/19 05:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,684
NWT
Ryan McLeod Offline
trapper
Ryan McLeod  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,684
NWT
Do fisher kill lynx? No no no fisher catch fish. Trapper kill lynx. Geez! Come on guys. (Better put the LOL)


If you take care of the land the land will take care of you
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513452
04/08/19 09:51 PM
04/08/19 09:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,058
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
trapper
Fisher Man  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,058
Adirondacks, NY
No I'm not a Fed employee. The real problem is Fed restrictions on lynx, even in a place like Maine where they are spilling over from Canada and are not endangered. I feel very bad for Maine trappers that have been cheated out of traditional methods of harvesting fisher. I've seen those 90 degree alternatives that are a joke.. But I still ask the initial question; what difference does it make if fisher kill lynx? Perhaps Maine should have a trapping season for lynx, which can't happen because of the dumb fed restriction.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6513455
04/08/19 09:53 PM
04/08/19 09:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,058
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
trapper
Fisher Man  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,058
Adirondacks, NY
Any critter that kills house cats is OK in my book!

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6514271
04/09/19 09:26 PM
04/09/19 09:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 167
Georgia
W
Wiz Offline
trapper
Wiz  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 167
Georgia
I had read the full note when it was first published as an early view in the Journal of Wildlife Management and just reviewed it again. Based on reported results on tooth measurements on the skulls, necks, throats of the dead lynx, there seems to be pretty strong evidence that these lynx were not scavenged by fishers but rather killed by them.

I think its important to note that the authors specifically say that trapping restrictions are limiting fisher harvest and they go on to recommend modifying the harvest of fishers if fisher predation on lynx is affecting lynx populations. This will require additional monitoring that may already be part of the Incidental Take Permit requirements. This is an important piece of peer-reviewed literature that represents the best available science. Might not be the best science but its available which is the key part as far as any potential modifications to the ITP or future regulations as part of the ESA. As it has already been said, fishers have killed 5 times as many lynx in this 12 year study than trappers are allowed to incidentally take in 10 years. Seems as though this study is some ammunition that trappers can use in the future.

Did anyone catch that Defenders of Wildlife were one of the groups that helped fund the project?

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6514684
04/10/19 11:22 AM
04/10/19 11:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,470
Northwest Territories
M
muskrat411 Offline
trapper
muskrat411  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,470
Northwest Territories
How come Donald Trump is such a hippie? I thought you Yankees elected him to reduce the size of Government and get rid of all these dumb regulations. I figured Marine Mammal Protection Act would be low hanging fruit that he would have traded for Inupiat support of ANWAR by now. Less government = less Hippies.

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread