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Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . #7640521
08/02/22 01:19 PM
08/02/22 01:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
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Recently, I saw a video ( DVD ), where a man who I admire and respect commented that when a coyote buries a piece of meat, it "pees on it". . .

Hold on a second . . .

I have, over the years, many times, watched both foxes and coyotes using the aid of binoculars, and I've never once seen them urinate on a morsel after burying it.
Neither has any field biologist I've ever talked with, seen documented, or read any of their written material on the subject.
In fact, quite the opposite.
I have watched countless documentaries on wolves, coyotes, foxes, and jackals.
While I've watched them all bury partially eaten food, I've never seen them mark the spot with urine.

But. . .that's what trappers do.

And it isn't natural !

Marking a spot with urine attracts an animal to a certain spot
And why would you want to attract attention to something you want to hide ?


A good way to get it stolen, if you ask me.

Canines know this and that's why they do NOT mark buried food, IMO.
That's been my experience, Therefore, my belief.


But trappers do it and they do it with bottled, aged urine.
Why is that ?

Somewhere on here, I read a thread about making a Cache Set, where, if I understood it correctly, buried the bait and then set the trap right over the bait.
To me, that seems like a good way to find your trap exposed and dug up, if not snapped off.
Granted an animal could get caught in a trap, set on a hair trigger, but why would you not place the trap where the animal would step, as opposed to overtop the bait ?

I've set a good many Cashe Sets, all with the trap out font, none of them with urine.
If I do use urine, it's always upwind, at another set.
That makes far more sense to me.

When a canine buries a piece of food (flesh), it rakes out a shallow hole with both front feet, tucks the morsel in the hole using its mouth, then fills in the hole, using its nose.
It doesn't then mark it with urine.
It simply walks away

And so should you. . .

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640534
08/02/22 01:37 PM
08/02/22 01:37 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Natural isn't always the best. Sometimes it has its advantages on the difficult ones. Around here if I made a cache set as u described using straight fresh rabbit and a deep dirt hole Set beside it with a good lure that has ingredients in it that these coyotes have never smelled I know without a doubt which would catch more coyotes.

I know a guy that caught 900+ coyotes in a fur season. I'd like to see you convince him he's doing it wrong and to give up urine at his dirt holes.

If urine attracts other critters to the hole as you stated isn't that a good thing for a trapper? See coyotes are trying to hide there food and trappers are trying to attract others to it.
You say its a good way to get it stolen.. i want them to try and steal it.Two different agendas.

Last edited by Yes sir; 08/02/22 02:07 PM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640615
08/02/22 04:18 PM
08/02/22 04:18 PM
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Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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When I place urine at a dirt hole set It's never In the hole. It might be 2' from the set or 12" from the actual set but NEVER In the hole or on the backing.


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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640622
08/02/22 04:22 PM
08/02/22 04:22 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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If u have never tried it how do u know which way is most effective?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640629
08/02/22 04:30 PM
08/02/22 04:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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Pretty much what Charlie wrote years ago. He said the only time he saw them mark a cache was AFTER they robbed it.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: SNIPERBBB] #7640655
08/02/22 05:10 PM
08/02/22 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SNIPERB🦝
Pretty much what Charlie wrote years ago. He said the only time he saw them mark a cache was AFTER they robbed it.

He also said heíll make a dirt hole with no bait and just urine in the hole.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640658
08/02/22 05:15 PM
08/02/22 05:15 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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As Lt stated. It's a good way to get ur bait stolen. I'm for them to try and rob me.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640662
08/02/22 05:25 PM
08/02/22 05:25 PM
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Yes sir Offline
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Grab a camera or make a few test holes and see which way gets the most action.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640667
08/02/22 05:30 PM
08/02/22 05:30 PM
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Not arguing because most on here are much better trappers than I, but if it isnít natural, why does it work?

ďMostĒ everything you read or see, says bait down the hole, lure on the lip or up high, and urine on the backing. The hole is generally below the backing.

Last edited by Wanna Be; 08/02/22 05:48 PM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Wanna Be] #7640673
08/02/22 05:40 PM
08/02/22 05:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Not arguing because most on here are much better trappers than I, but if it isnít natural, why does it work?

Its all about the reactions you get from the critters you're chasing. Both ways will work, you just get different reactions and how long theyll work the set will be different.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: SNIPERBBB] #7640702
08/02/22 06:34 PM
08/02/22 06:34 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Forget worrying about what's natural, you don't need it to catch the majority of the coyotes. Worry about what works. Coyotes don't pee at a cache for the same reason trappers use urine at the set...... it attractants other coyotes. Coyotes don't want robbed trappers want robbed.
Originally Posted by SNIPERB🦝
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Not arguing because most on here are much better trappers than I, but if it isnít natural, why does it work?

Its all about the reactions you get from the critters you're chasing. Both ways will work, you just get different reactions and how long theyll work the set will be different.

I'm interested in learning what are the differences in reaction at a dirt hole when you use urine in addition to your normal bait/lure and which setup gets them to work the set longer. My experience watching coyotes on videos is when urine is present at the hole they are more confident in working the set, especially in the first couple of days. I personally didn't notice a difference on how long they worked a set or the intensity of them working the set when urine was or wasn't used. That seemed more to do with how much they wanted your bait or lure.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640742
08/02/22 07:29 PM
08/02/22 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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Urine may/may not of given the sets that were a bit off a bit of a bump but anything out of place at the set seems still to get the majority of the attention of the coyote. Just never ever for me to really mess with urine during the season outside of flat sets.

Last edited by SNIPERB🦝; 08/02/22 07:29 PM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640797
08/02/22 08:36 PM
08/02/22 08:36 PM
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Wright Brothers Offline
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Lots of lure ingredients non-natural.

I agree they don't mark it unless they stole it,, take that you other k9.

A couple of times in large deer population areas
I skipped the urine and cut back on lure.
Was surprised that the catch rate seemed the same.
I cut back the amount afterwards.

And then there was a trapper in my area that used so much you could smell it way before you seen his set and he did very well.

Hopefully this topic gets traction.


Last edited by Wright Brothers; 08/02/22 08:40 PM.




Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Wright Brothers] #7640806
08/02/22 08:45 PM
08/02/22 08:45 PM
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Maine
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Mac Offline
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Lt sir,
How many hundreds of thousands of canines have been caught doing it wrong? I would wager a freaking lot of them.
I hear what you are saying. Fantastic trappers have said the same thing. Old Mr. Charlie Dobbins wrote about his observations.

But again, I would ask how many hundreds of thousands of canines have been caught doing it wrong?

I am not arguing with you. At one time I did not think I could catch canines with out urine, but I was wrong.
But I have caught a crap load using old school methods before "I learned better."

I have cache style sets also that does not have the trap on top of bait. Everyone really ought to read Bill Nelson's book and all of O'Gormans. The Big O covers a lot of ground about urine usage in his books and videos.




Mac



Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640815
08/02/22 08:54 PM
08/02/22 08:54 PM
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Marion Kansas
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I started collecting my own two years ago. I've been considerably more impressed with the attraction ability of urine since I started using my own. Only reason I bring this up is because when I hear people talking about it not affecting their catch rate I wonder how good is the urine they're using.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640840
08/02/22 09:28 PM
08/02/22 09:28 PM
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I think most on this post know good pee.
Last I bought was same vender / product after Russ C bought some.
Before that it was from Bill K.
Yes, quality matters. And yes, there is junk out there.





Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Wright Brothers] #7640876
08/02/22 10:06 PM
08/02/22 10:06 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by Wright Brothers
I think most on this post know good pee.
Last I bought was same vender / product after Russ C bought some.
Before that it was from Bill K.
Yes, quality matters. And yes, there is junk out there.

I won't argue that but I have seen people on here that are held in pretty good light on here recommend pee from the same supplier I was buying from before I collected. Had a friend this spring buy urine from 3 suppliers that are smaller dealers and reputable lure makers. He wanted to get to the bottom of the urine debate. He called all three prior to purchasing to verify that there urine was a 100% pure undiluted no additives of any kind. All the verified 100% natural urine. First test.... freezer for 24 hrs... 1 froze totally solid, one 2/3rds solid 1/3 liquid and not a bit frozen. The stuff that didn't freeze He left in freezer couple more days, never froze. He called the guy and the supplier stated again 100% pure no additives but wouldn't give an answer why his urine wouldn't freeze. I believe fewer people know what good urine is than what we would like to believe. Trapping world is relatively small world. Couldn't be too many out there collecting in any kind of significant volume that trappers wouldn't know about. And I know of one that collects but from some testing someone shared with me I also believes he adds to it to increase the volume.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640879
08/02/22 10:08 PM
08/02/22 10:08 PM
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P-Post sets work good-you dont need any bait for those sets.
Its easy to collect pee on the trapline in winter for the odd few sets.
I will occasionally take frozen wolf bladder pee for some uses also..

Last edited by Boco; 08/02/22 10:13 PM.

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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7640896
08/02/22 10:34 PM
08/02/22 10:34 PM
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Amite county Mississippi
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LT gotta say it's nice having you back and posting, seems you can get folks talking better then anyone else for some reason. I'll be here waiting to archive this post. You need some help posting pictures let me know LT , figure you have some good ones

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 08/02/22 10:35 PM.

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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641244
08/03/22 11:03 AM
08/03/22 11:03 AM
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Urine has its place, but it's not cake frosting. smile


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Yes sir] #7641256
08/03/22 11:11 AM
08/03/22 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
If u have never tried it how do u know which way is most effective?


I've tried It both ways and I've settled on placing urine away from any bait hole set. And If your on location and have a good lure why do you even need urine.


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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: The Beav] #7641283
08/03/22 12:00 PM
08/03/22 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by The Beav
Originally Posted by Yes sir
If u have never tried it how do u know which way is most effective?


I've tried It both ways and I've settled on placing urine away from any bait hole set. And If your on location and have a good lure why do you even need urine.

My opinion based of watching coyotes reaction to a dirt hole with urine and another attractant like a bait or lure is it increases your odds of a catch. Same reason some use more than one attractant at a set or multiple sets at one location. It's all about increasing your catch rate. And like Lt pointed out it attractant other animals and is a great way to get your bait stolen.
Doesn't Robert squiet it on the backing or in the hole on every set?

Last edited by Yes sir; 08/03/22 12:39 PM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641298
08/03/22 12:45 PM
08/03/22 12:45 PM
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Wisconsin
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I believe that by placing the urine somewhat close to the set makes the fox or coyote more at ease. The other thing I do Is I place my lure at a baited hole set about 3" or 4 " to the right or left of the baited hole. It seems to me i get more foot movement that way. Any way that's how James Lucero does It.


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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: The Beav] #7641303
08/03/22 12:50 PM
08/03/22 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by The Beav
I believe that by placing the urine somewhat close to the set makes the fox or coyote more at ease. The other thing I do Is I place my lure at a baited hole set about 3" or 4 " to the right or left of the baited hole. It seems to me i get more foot movement that way. Any way that's how James Lucero does It.


Glad you posted that. Thatís what Iíve been doing this year as well. I tend to put my urine out in front mainly to draw attention to the set. Iím relying on the bait and/or lure to get them caught.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641324
08/03/22 01:22 PM
08/03/22 01:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
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I didn't read all the responses, but I did read a few.

I'll try to respond to some of it.

First of all, I am not a fur trapper.

I am the 'gun for hire', so to speak. I trap animals because people pay me to.
It has been my full time job, most of my adult life.
In this business, you catch certain animals, or you don't get paid.
Simple as that. . .but I digress.

The number one scent sold today, volume wise, is in fact urine.
128 ounces to a gallon.

Trappers use it, because it works.

Canine urine will attract rabbits and deer and cattle. . .and of course, canines.
Aged, bottled urine will cause some canines to shy away, but not many.
Most canines will walk up and sniff urine, regardless of the type. Even human urine. It doesn't scare animals like we've been told.

Trappers buy urine and use it far more than is needed.
A coyote or any other canine doesn't use as much, when they are 'marking' an area, as I have seen most trappers use.

A canine's nose is rich with olfactory senses. They read their world using their sense of smell.

When (many) trappers make a dirt hole set, they add bait to the hole, some type of lure of the edge or lip of the hole, urine of the specie they're after (or similar)
and some will even add a dropping or two.

Q ) Which could you remove from that equation and still have the set produce the animal that approaches ?
A) All of them, save one and that's any one of them. The ( fresh ) set alone will catch some animals

You don't need multiple scents to catch an animal at a set.
But lure makers tell us you do . . . to get the animal to stutter-step, increasing your odds to step on the trap.
And when you, the trapper, use multiple scents at a set and catch the target animal. . .you swear it works, because , well, it did.
But you could have caught the animal by just using one.

Personally, I would take that same lure, bait , urine and droppings and make four separate sets, all close by, increasing my chances of multiple catches.
Q) What's the best animal attractant ?
A) An animal of the same specie


If you need more than one scent at a set. . .you're using the wrong scent !

Q)How many scents does a 'control trapper' use ON an M-44 or Getter Gun ?
A) ( I hope you said ONE ! )


Know why that is ? IT"S THE RIGHT (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) SCENT !

( Think about it )

Now, as one trapper pointed out, Charlie Dobbins wrote his observations on using urine at a dirt hole set,
which was that a canine doesn't scent mark a baited set, unless the bait is no longer present.

So, a morsel in the hole, no urine.
If the hole is empty, it marks it with urine.

Which is why urine does not belong on a Cache Set.

Could it work ?
Sure.
But it isn't natural , nor is it needed.
The same results will occur without urine.

Animal urine, attracts animals and a properly placed trap will catch most as they approach.

1) Fox, cats, coyotes and yes, even wolves seldom, if ever scent mark over aged bottled urine, as we've been led to believe by writers of the past.
It's B S !
Oh, they'll walk straight up to it and smell it. They'll do the same where you pee , but they won't scent mark aged urine.
It does NOT have that effect, which is why it doesn't warrant that response.

Now let your trap line dog scent mark a bush and a coyote will lose it's mind !
Do you know why that is ?
Do you know what the difference is ?

Most trappers don't.

And that is why the majority of fur trappers, remain fur trappers, where the name of the game is 'numbers of animals caught'.


The percentage of animals caught in the fall and early winter are the young of that year.
And with mammals, that's usually 2 to 8 per litter, on average

In regards to coyotes : There is a world of difference between a fall pup and a hard nosed predator that has seen the best trappers, hunters and snare men have to offer.

And when you are paid to kill that coyote (or coyotes) after everyone else has failed, you had better do it right the first time !


(NUISANCE) companies in my area are charging as high as $2,000.00 for a single coyote. . .
A single coyote !


And frankly, most of them couldn't catch a (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) coyote if you threw it in their lap !

You won't 'fur trap' many coyotes in July and August.
Ask a man that does it for a living.

And that, my friends, is why you don't use cookie cutter fur trapping methods on a wise old dog that's ,(not only been around, but OWNS ) the block !

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641328
08/03/22 01:29 PM
08/03/22 01:29 PM
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That response ^^^ might save me some money.

Iím guilty of throwing the whole gauntlet at a set and thinking it worked when I catch something.
Based on your experience and writings, it very well could have been just one of the things I used. Now my brain is spinning wondering if all that is too much at once and that why a lot of sets catch on day 2 or 3 after all that scent has dissipated some.
Iím still learningÖ

Last edited by Wanna Be; 08/03/22 01:32 PM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641339
08/03/22 01:48 PM
08/03/22 01:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
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Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
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Wanna Be,
Use two to three different odors at a set, and when you catch the 'target animal', which one caught the animal ?
All of them ?
Why, that's not what the ad said when they sold you the lure ?
That lure, that single lure was a deadly fur taker. . .


Now, why did you use three ? laugh

If the set is wrecked, do you rebuild it and add more. ( even just urine ) Many trappers do. . .

Bait and lure won't make you a better trapper
Becoming a better trapper will make you a better trapper.
( if that seems confusing, as a blind setter for mink what it means)

Quote: "You can skin an animal only once, but you can skin a trapper, year after year "
Harry Smeal


Oh, to be a lure marker again with a high dollar market . . ,. whistle

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641366
08/03/22 02:24 PM
08/03/22 02:24 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Lt I would agree with most of all you posted above. And yes the approach of a fur trapper and a control guy can be much different especially during warm seasons. Fur trapping I'm not completely sold that one attractant is ALWAYS best. Considering lures and prepared baits usually have at least 4 ingredients at the bottom end to 12+ ingredients on the top end, I don't see the idea of one lure with say 12 ingredients in it always being more effective than say a lure with 5 ingredients and a bait with four. And I'll say I have seen negative effects especially on the tougher to catch coyotes of having 3 or 4 different sets in one area. That much stimulus in one area just isn't natural. Lol grin

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: The Beav] #7641368
08/03/22 02:25 PM
08/03/22 02:25 PM
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by The Beav
I believe that by placing the urine somewhat close to the set makes the fox or coyote more at ease. The other thing I do Is I place my lure at a baited hole set about 3" or 4 " to the right or left of the baited hole. It seems to me i get more foot movement that way. Any way that's how James Lucero does It.

What's Robert do

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641374
08/03/22 02:30 PM
08/03/22 02:30 PM
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SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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Hereís my issue.I donít trap places with high or even medium numbers of coyotes. Coyote tracks are are minimum where tracks can be seen. Even not many on cameras. I made a set with a camera July 23. The only time my camera went off besides me riding by checking sets was when a coyote finally came through and got caught on July 29th.
So I guess my confidence level with just bait or lure or even urine isnít enough to just trust one at a set, when critters only come through every so often, hence the reason I throw everything I have at them.

But, Iím going to follow the advice on here and try just one at a time and see what happens.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641451
08/03/22 03:52 PM
08/03/22 03:52 PM
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NC - Here there and everywhere
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Y'all use lure? Why?


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Yes sir] #7641471
08/03/22 04:16 PM
08/03/22 04:16 PM
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Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Lt I would agree with most of all you posted above.
And I'll say I have seen negative effects especially on the tougher to catch coyotes of having 3 or 4 different sets in one area.
That much stimulus in one area just isn't natural. Lol grin



And that's why you see videos posted on places like You Tube where trappers have 4,5,6,7 or more coyotes caught within a 100 yards, or so, area.

Ever see the Bob W e n d t one with 10 or 12 ?
How about Robert Waddell's 7 in a row, one night.

Keep believing that Santa is real

I know better and I still get a gift
wink

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641476
08/03/22 04:18 PM
08/03/22 04:18 PM
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Georgia
warrior Offline
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Glad you dumped the cart, LT.

I'd love to chime in with all my hard won knowledge of urine but to tell the truth I haven't used it in years.

Honestly, I've been pondering urine lately and considering the various offerings including some of the secret sauce word of mouth sources. But when looking back on the time I did use urine nothing about urine ever stood out or seemed to be the difference. So I just wondered if I was somehow missing something.

At the moment my ranking of items that'll put paw on pan.

Location
Bait
Set construction
Lure

I say at the moment because I'm always open to change based on knowledge gained.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Wanna Be] #7641477
08/03/22 04:19 PM
08/03/22 04:19 PM
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Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Hereís my issue.I donít trap places with high or even medium numbers of coyotes.
So I guess my confidence level with just bait or lure or even urine isnít enough to just trust one at a set, when critters only come through every so often, hence the reason I throw everything I have at them.
.



When I hear people say that. . .a thought runs through my mind.

( I wanna trap where they trap )



The true secret to success on the trap line is : Location and how natural the set looks

Stop believing all that other BS

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641491
08/03/22 04:32 PM
08/03/22 04:32 PM
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SW Georgia
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Originally Posted by LT GREY
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Hereís my issue.I donít trap places with high or even medium numbers of coyotes.
So I guess my confidence level with just bait or lure or even urine isnít enough to just trust one at a set, when critters only come through every so often, hence the reason I throw everything I have at them.
.



When I hear people say that. . .a thought runs through my mind.

( I wanna trap where they trap )



The true secret to success on the trap line is : Location and how natural the set looks

Stop believing all that other BS


If you are ever down this way and got a day or two to spare Iíd be MORE than happy to let you set, lol! Wouldnít hurt my feelings if you had a full line the next morning. Iím open to learning.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641492
08/03/22 04:34 PM
08/03/22 04:34 PM
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Along those same lines, I read about folks catching 10+ coyotes a day and I think, Iíd love to trap where they trap.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641502
08/03/22 04:49 PM
08/03/22 04:49 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Different times of year animals respond to different stimulus.
As a fur trapper I target predatory animals in winter when fur is prime. Winter is when they are hungry here.Baiting shines when the country is lean.
If I have to kill a predator when the living is easy,I will go first with blind sets or second with a set that stimulates their territorial behaviour.
Bait is mostly of no use in warmer weather,unless setting up a wolf kill or similar-even then the window is small.

Last edited by Boco; 08/03/22 04:52 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641519
08/03/22 05:26 PM
08/03/22 05:26 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by LT GREY
Originally Posted by Yes sir
Lt I would agree with most of all you posted above.
And I'll say I have seen negative effects especially on the tougher to catch coyotes of having 3 or 4 different sets in one area.
That much stimulus in one area just isn't natural. Lol grin



And that's why you see videos posted on places like You Tube where trappers have 4,5,6,7 or more coyotes caught within a 100 yards, or so, area.

Ever see the Bob W e n d t one with 10 or 12 ?
How about Robert Waddell's 7 in a row, one night.

Keep believing that Santa is real

I know better and I still get a gift
wink

Lt are u saying those pics are not real? Not tracking with Santa comment
My point in the post of too many sets spooking coyotes is in reference to the smarter/hard ti catch , more like control trapping. Those pics are fur trapping/ take out the easy ones...
Stay hooked here with me
As far as seeing those pics, I've got a friend that had 12 in one pic a couple years ago. He's on this forum but to my knowledge has never post on the subject of coyote trapping. And he does use pee at every dirt hole along with Bob W and Waddell. grin

Last edited by Yes sir; 08/03/22 05:48 PM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Boco] #7641521
08/03/22 05:29 PM
08/03/22 05:29 PM
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Mesa,Washington.
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Mark McCary Offline
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LT, What kind of Lure's do You use?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Mark McCary] #7641559
08/03/22 06:42 PM
08/03/22 06:42 PM
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Central Ohio
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Originally Posted by Mark McCary
LT, What kind of Lure's do You use?



I've made lure and baits since the late 70's.
Most people that know me, know that,
I've had several lure lines over the years, but currently, just make it for myself and a few friends.
Most major lure and bait companies' products will attract the animals they were intended to.

Jameson's coyote gland lure is top-notch, IMO,, as are many of his other scents.
Johnny G over in Wyoming, and Craig's lures in Montana, all first-rate.
When Andy Weiser made lures, I used them fairly often.

A lot of good products out there.
I have named but a few.

I use a lot of whole natural baits, which coyotes and foxes really eat.

In the heat, you don't use a lot of baits though.
The odor attracts flies and your baits will be a ball of maggots in a day or so.

A coyote will stroll right past it.

Dropping usage is high during the warmer months, as coyotes in particular are marking the roads they travel on.
* See: 'What droppings teach us' possibly in the Trapperman.com archives.


They do dry out rather quickly in the heat and that's where glycerine comes into play.
But that's another subject in itself

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641580
08/03/22 07:10 PM
08/03/22 07:10 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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What where your most popular lure lines u made?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641638
08/03/22 09:11 PM
08/03/22 09:11 PM
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Aliceville, Kansas 43
Yukon John Offline
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Been watching this thread...I'd like to give a big THANK YOU to LT GREY! Coyote and beaver give me fits, but coyotes more than anything! I learn a little more every year, and just keep plugging away. BTW Yes sir your input/bantor has kept this from dying, thanks to you as well!


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7641677
08/03/22 10:04 PM
08/03/22 10:04 PM
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E central Il
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Having seen first hand the area where 9 coyotes were caught in one night , I feel I should comment on the amount of stimulus involved. Itís really hard to believe until youíve seen it. In one section of fence about a hundred yards or less long and about 50 to 60 yards wide was more coyote scat than you could put in two 5 gallon buckets . If I remember right 4 snares were placed in the fence and ten foot holds were scattered about 10 yards wide and 70 to 80 yards long with the first and last set being snares . Every foot hold was a dirt hole with muskrat and a shot of urine on the backing. In two days 15 coyotes died along that fence, old and young alike. This was the end of January, so probably not too many dumb ones in the bunch. How many problem coyotes and wise coyotes died in those two days and the days that followed ? No really, how many ?

The simple fact is when youíve got that many coyotes using one area you might not be able to put out too much stimulation. Did the amount of stimulation cause any refusals? Thatís what the snares picked up .

Anyone ever seen a Casey Payne demo ?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Yukon John] #7641692
08/03/22 10:33 PM
08/03/22 10:33 PM
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Mesa,Washington.
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Mark McCary Offline
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Thanks for the lure info LT. Nice to know You are a lure maker also. I think I know the answer to the Dog Pee question? The pee plus kickback = communication, territorial claim, warning, etc. etc. Lots of info in that fresh pee?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642156
08/04/22 04:04 PM
08/04/22 04:04 PM
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Southern Michigan
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trappergbus Offline
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Population dictates how greedy and territorial coyotes are, more coyotes the easier is it's to get them to respond. The opposite when theirs less. I agree it should only take one attractant, but some scents work best in combination. Urine won't cover mistakes or make an animal less cautious but when used in it's true intent it's deadly.

Great thread LT, you must be feeling better LOL.


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642278
08/04/22 07:00 PM
08/04/22 07:00 PM
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williamsburg ks
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The guy that won the N.M. coyote trapping trapping contest used chicken bones from fried chicken in a dirt hole ........ and pee


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642338
08/04/22 08:29 PM
08/04/22 08:29 PM
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And won it , how many times ?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: danny clifton] #7642363
08/04/22 09:08 PM
08/04/22 09:08 PM
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alabama
steeltraps Offline
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
The guy that won the N.M. coyote trapping trapping contest used chicken bones from fried chicken in a dirt hole ........ and pee

New Mexico coyote trapping contest?? Maybe we should have a = Tman coyote trapping contest?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642375
08/04/22 09:17 PM
08/04/22 09:17 PM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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put one on. those apaches wanted a small fortune for an entry fee. get a few thousand acres lined up of deer leases or something. dont charge a bunch of money. maybe get an exemption or reduction in non resident license fees. or hold it wy. in a county with lots of predator control and ariel gunning. no license required. lots of public ground


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642614
08/05/22 07:03 AM
08/05/22 07:03 AM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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There are areas in WY where its tough to catch a half dozen in a week. You need to be on your game. That country will sort the typers from the trappers. Would make trapping for no money at great expense a lot of fun.

The indians set it up where two people teams were competing, and number of traps was limited, I think, to 50 traps per team.

I wonder if John Graham could put you in touch with some Wyomingites to help you get it going?

The guys just camped in the N.M. contest.

Last edited by danny clifton; 08/05/22 07:08 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642664
08/05/22 08:10 AM
08/05/22 08:10 AM
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NC
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Phil Brown also won it multiple times. I think he had mentioned his son was his partner once, and his wife several times. Not sure if he reads in the Trapping Only section or not, but maybe he'll chime in.



Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Carolina Foxer] #7642676
08/05/22 08:27 AM
08/05/22 08:27 AM
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alabama
steeltraps Offline
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I would enjoy the honor of competing against some of Tman best coyote trappers. Would like to see = 1000 dollar entry fee. Unlimited traps per man. No team stuff. Maybe 30 or 40 guys. BIG cunk of land. A 30 or 40000 dollar winner take all would make for a good prize !!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: steeltraps] #7642715
08/05/22 09:05 AM
08/05/22 09:05 AM
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Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline
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Originally Posted by steeltraps
I would enjoy the honor of competing against some of Tman best coyote trappers. Would like to see = 1000 dollar entry fee. Unlimited traps per man. No team stuff. Maybe 30 or 40 guys. BIG cunk of land. A 30 or 40000 dollar winner take all would make for a good prize !!

Provide me a side by side in location and I'm game grin


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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642738
08/05/22 09:37 AM
08/05/22 09:37 AM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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Would have to be wy with no limits and 30-40 trappers else you would be tripping over each other


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Wolfdog91] #7642739
08/05/22 09:37 AM
08/05/22 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
Originally Posted by steeltraps
I would enjoy the honor of competing against some of Tman best coyote trappers. Would like to see = 1000 dollar entry fee. Unlimited traps per man. No team stuff. Maybe 30 or 40 guys. BIG cunk of land. A 30 or 40000 dollar winner take all would make for a good prize !!

Provide me a side by side in location and I'm game grin

I think you would find the guys that relied on lure and left their urine at home would be headed back with their tail tucked between their legs whistle


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642741
08/05/22 09:39 AM
08/05/22 09:39 AM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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30-40 guys running 150 200 mile lines will need a lot of room

Last edited by danny clifton; 08/05/22 09:39 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: danny clifton] #7642742
08/05/22 09:39 AM
08/05/22 09:39 AM
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Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Would have to be wy with no limits and 30-40 trappers else you would be tripping over each other

Guys were tripping over each other in the coyote championship too...

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642751
08/05/22 09:53 AM
08/05/22 09:53 AM
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Marion Kansas
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I'd be intrested but personally would rather see a modest entry fee and modest pay. Trapping for the honor of winning it and the enjoyment of meeting other Tman members and less about the $. That kind of pay out would have people who aren't members join just to enter and the seriousness of that kind of pay out would tempt so to consider breaking
rules and also tempt some of accusing others of breaking rules. Option of going as a team or individual. 5 or 7 days of trapping by yourself half way across the country might not intrest alot of people and I personally don't see having a partner as a huge advantage but I would also limit the number of traps so that it wasn't just a contest about who can grind it out the hardest but more towards skill. It would also help with how much country u needed.

If we are serious we should start it's own thread.

Last edited by Yes sir; 08/05/22 09:56 AM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642753
08/05/22 09:57 AM
08/05/22 09:57 AM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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I wonder how many teams they usually get in the NM one and is its still going on.?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: danny clifton] #7642758
08/05/22 10:02 AM
08/05/22 10:02 AM
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alabama
steeltraps Offline
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
30-40 guys running 150 200 mile lines will need a lot of room

Right need some where SUPER large = 6666 Ranch is 350000 acres or so. King Ranch is almost 1 million. Dont know how big Mescularo is ? 1/2 million acres? Point is - somewherw massive. No limit on traps No team. Be the greatest contest ever = with the most coyotes EVER killed in a contest ! That would be worth it!!!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: steeltraps] #7642764
08/05/22 10:09 AM
08/05/22 10:09 AM
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by steeltraps
Originally Posted by danny clifton
30-40 guys running 150 200 mile lines will need a lot of room

Right need some where SUPER large = 6666 Ranch is 350000 acres or so. King Ranch is almost 1 million. Dont know how big Mescularo is ? 1/2 million acres? Point is - somewherw massive. No limit on traps No team. Be the greatest contest ever = with the most coyotes EVER killed in a contest ! That would be worth it!!!


I could be wrong but getting on an operation like those mentioned and putting together some like that with those rules would be interesting but very unrealistic. But if u could make it happen I say go for it.

I think the hardest part will b finding an organizer for thr event.
I'd be ok with 1000 entry fee but modest pay outs with some going to something like the discretionary fund. I think a Tman contest and the world's biggest and greatest should b geared differently.

Last edited by Yes sir; 08/05/22 10:13 AM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642766
08/05/22 10:11 AM
08/05/22 10:11 AM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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Yes Sir the Apache reservation championship contest ended a few years ago


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: danny clifton] #7642770
08/05/22 10:20 AM
08/05/22 10:20 AM
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steeltraps Offline
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Yes Sir. If Boss Paul would let us orginize it here. Give Tman = 5-10 % say 5 or 10000 dollars. Ranch = Or venue gets coyotes caught and same on money. So = do = winner takes all. No trap limit No teams. 5 to 7 days. 20000 or more or whatevers left. Make the money = A life changing event

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: danny clifton] #7642772
08/05/22 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
Yes Sir the Apache reservation championship contest ended a few years ago

Didnt know that. But you get the picture. Some where LARGE and BIG cash pay out !!!!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642777
08/05/22 10:32 AM
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I'd be willing to help organize possibly but personally would not be intrested in big pay out or unlimited trap. But if we were serious I think we would have to see what the general consensus on here would be as far as the structure. I've seen what big $ has done to fishing and calling contests and personally I'm just not intrested in opening the door to that much drama. If others would want that that's the way it could be set up though.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Yes sir] #7642782
08/05/22 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
I'd be willing to help organize possibly but personally would not be intrested in big pay out or unlimited trap. But if we were serious I think we would have to see what the general consensus on here would be as far as the structure. I've seen what big $ has done to fishing and calling contests and personally I'm just not intrested in opening the door to that much drama. If others would want that that's the way it could be set up though.

OK. I can get the no big pay out. BUT I just dont get the unlimited traps? Most people dont go to a coyote trapping job or out on the line with just a arbitrary # off traps ? Make it - the greatest contest of all. With the most coyotes EVER kill in a single contest ! Think how much good it will would do the landowner !

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642796
08/05/22 11:03 AM
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So he who has the most is the greatest coyote catcher?
A better contest would be based on how many individuals are in the competition. 100 competitors limited to 10 traps each. That would be more of a Championship.
If the absolute best coyote trapper you could think of only put out 50 and the worst put out 200, who do you think would catch the most? He who has the most sets in the ground.
If you want to declare yourself a true coyote catcher, then limit traps so everything is the same. A blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.

Last edited by Wanna Be; 08/05/22 11:07 AM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642799
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I'd buy a ticket, to sit in the bleachers. I know I'm not a coyote trapper by any reasonable measure. I'm a problem solver and if solving the problem is scaring them off then I'm cool with that, too.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: warrior] #7642800
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Originally Posted by warrior
I'd buy a ticket, to sit in the bleachers. I know I'm not a coyote trapper by any reasonable measure. I'm a problem solver and if solving the problem is scaring them off then I'm cool with that, too.

I show up on a property and a coyote wonít be seen for at least 2 months after I leave and definitely not when Iím there!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Wanna Be] #7642805
08/05/22 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Wanna Be
So he who has the most is the greatest coyote catcher?
A better contest would be based on how many individuals are in the competition. 100 competitors limited to 10 traps each. That would be more of a Championship.
If the absolute best coyote trapper you could think of only put out 50 and the worst put out 200, who do you think would catch the most? He who has the most sets in the ground.
If you want to declare yourself a true coyote catcher, then limit traps so everything is the same. A blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.
. You sound like the government. WHY? Put limits on anything? Talking about 300000 to 1 million acres. Big money pay out. Unlimited traps Let a person put out what he wants. Who you want a contest or where someone said = NO dirtholes ?? Geez

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: steeltraps] #7642811
08/05/22 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by steeltraps
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
So he who has the most is the greatest coyote catcher?
A better contest would be based on how many individuals are in the competition. 100 competitors limited to 10 traps each. That would be more of a Championship.
If the absolute best coyote trapper you could think of only put out 50 and the worst put out 200, who do you think would catch the most? He who has the most sets in the ground.
If you want to declare yourself a true coyote catcher, then limit traps so everything is the same. A blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.
. You sound like the government. WHY? Put limits on anything? Talking about 300000 to 1 million acres. Big money pay out. Unlimited traps Let a person put out what he wants. Who you want a contest or where someone said = NO dirtholes ?? Geez


Question is who can catch the most based on nothing but pure skill with the only variable being the grey matter in a trapper's head or sheer ability of effort.

The first would require reducing all variables to a minimum such as same number and type of trap, same size parcel/population, etc. Leave nothing but choice of set location, construction and luring to the competitor.

The second could be unlimited and let the man with the most stamina show what he's got.

Either competition would be impressive no doubt.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642818
08/05/22 11:37 AM
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I understand your view and agree with it if you want to say your very best no hold barred coyote trapper. Particularly if your running the contest in an area of low numbers and high pressure.

But the 2 biggest challenges I see in putting this together is
1 find ground Particularly if it's held on private
2 actually getting enough participants especially if we keep it to Tman

Limited # of traps need less ground and I believe would intrest more guys because some just aren't intrest in trying to get 150 sets in the ground for many reasons. A few being cost (gear, carrying gear and fuel bringing gear and running that much country). Another down side few people are able or intrested in physically putting themselves into that kind of challenge.

Like I said I understand being the ultimate coyote trapper does require hard work lots of equipment and tons of want to but I'm looking more at the logistics of making it happen and gearing it a little more towards skill and enjoyment than ultimately numbers caught. If that makes any sense. But if enough were intrested in unlimited traps and that was the general consensus and you could find the ground I don't see why not.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642827
08/05/22 11:42 AM
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I also think have a partner would intrest more people. Split cost and make it more enjoyable. But maybe there would be enough intrest in a no holds barred one man contest to make it work.

Need to start a separate thread to guage intrest and bounce around ideas

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642832
08/05/22 11:47 AM
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I wonder if a few of the old hands still with us couldn't whoop up on the young bucks with just a handful traps vs an all day long line?

While each has it's merits it's the rare individual that that has both at the same time in life.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: warrior] #7642848
08/05/22 12:03 PM
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Well guys. I guess this is why it will NEVER work out that we will ever have a Tman coyote catching contest. Everyone wants something different. No one can agree on anything. Here is what I would love to see. = Unlimited traps Unlimited space Large CASH payout No partners! I feel that that the top guys would want to = pony up the cash and go for it ! I am a gambler myself BUT would consider it an honor to compete agains the best of the best of Tman. Just like the idea of = big cash pay out and LOTS of dead coyotes. That being said. IF yall ever got up a contest. Regardless of rules I did or did not like. I would still take off a week or so and play.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642849
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I understand your view and I appreciate your willingness to be flexible

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Yes sir] #7642858
08/05/22 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
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I understand your view and I appreciate your willingness to be flexible

Thanks. Yes Sir. Thats whats life is all about right? Compromise ? We all trap coyotes alittle different. But. Killimg coyotes = Is killing coyotes! LOL!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: steeltraps] #7642859
08/05/22 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by steeltraps
Well guys. I guess this is why it will NEVER work out that we will ever have a Tman coyote catching contest. Everyone wants something different. No one can agree on anything. Here is what I would love to see. = Unlimited traps Unlimited space Large CASH payout No partners! I feel that that the top guys would want to = pony up the cash and go for it ! I am a gambler myself BUT would consider it an honor to compete agains the best of the best of Tman. Just like the idea of = big cash pay out and LOTS of dead coyotes. That being said. IF yall ever got up a contest. Regardless of rules I did or did not like. I would still take off a week or so and play.


I'd love to see that contest.

I guess what I was comparing would be more like an Ironman triathlon vs International Chess Master Competition, two completely different things. And both equally challenging and fascinating in different ways.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642879
08/05/22 12:28 PM
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Guess I misunderstood the assignment, lol. Thought yíall wanted it as a competition.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: warrior] #7642885
08/05/22 12:34 PM
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Warrior. I quess if we are honest with ourself. There will NEVER be a 100 % fair contest. What do you mean? Ever rule = helps someone but hurts another in a competion. How do you mean? A old veteran coyote trapper is help by lets say 12 traps Where someone that has been brought up setting. 2 or 3 traps per set is hurt. IF you pick a high density coyote place ? The bait maker has the advantage over the veteran guy that grew up in low density coyote sheep country. And so on and so on. The this is finding a compromise everyone can live with. And in the end. No one is forced to play. Everyone will have different likes and dislikes in ANY contest. No contest is 100% fair to every single person. But hopefully. One can be put together

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642897
08/05/22 12:45 PM
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That is true.

I still think Ali could've taken Tyson. But I guess we'll never know. LOL

I guess I like you're goal, killing coyotes is all about killing coyotes.

I tend to overthink it and want to peek over folks shoulder and pick apart what the finer details of a good set are.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Wanna Be] #7642912
08/05/22 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Guess I misunderstood the assignment, lol. Thought yíall wanted it as a competition.

Killing large # of coyotes would do just that ! LoL ! BUT we all have our on opinions on way makes a contest a contest. And thats fine with me. We all have different likes and dislikes. We all have different ways and methods. I personally like the idea of = go somewhere. Make it worth the landowners time For having the contest. Kill lots of coyotes. Have BIG cash prize!!!!! But thats my dream contest. May be not yours. But mine LOL!!!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642930
08/05/22 01:07 PM
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Don't think it would be too hard. Just do the same rules as the coyote trapping competition they had in the rez.
Think it was something like one day to scout and make sets ( not place traps, punch holes ect) . No snaring the fence, must be back by a certain time for count or the days catch will be forfeit for that person and no stealing anyone's catch o and no calling I think .. other then that from my understanding it was wide open in if you could outwork the next guy then it just was what it was


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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642943
08/05/22 01:13 PM
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Seems quite reasonable. Save the finer detail limited for a tie breaker if need be.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7642972
08/05/22 01:49 PM
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Guys I see how this thread got started from another thread. My question is what was the guidelines to the contest that no longer takes place? Maybe some guidelines could be established if we knew what theres were. Not saying you have to follow them. Just something to go by.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7643017
08/05/22 02:41 PM
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So if there ever is a Tman coyote competition on a big ranch how would it be an equal playing field considering the population isn't the same on the entire ranch? Or to we just take off like a flock of quail and fight for the best locations LOL?? 100 traps limit would make things interesting; I'll even use urine LOL... An unexploited population would be awesome.


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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7643068
08/05/22 04:07 PM
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Pretty sure the coyote championship, it had to be all footholds and a judge looked for trap marks on the feet. Everyone left the same time everyday and had to be back by a set time or you get DQ'd for the day unlrss you had extenuating circumstances like a truck breakdown.

Trap limit does make sense as a guy could just run his own sets then start scouting the competition adding traps on top of the other guys.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7643150
08/05/22 05:48 PM
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Have it up north in winter-separate the men from the boys-big country up there-the snareman would take it.

Last edited by Boco; 08/05/22 05:48 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Boco] #7643351
08/05/22 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Boco
Have it up north in winter-separate the men from the boys-big country up there-the snareman would take it.

I dont think It would be a good idea for some of this crew To try to cross an International boarder! LOL !!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7643388
08/05/22 10:23 PM
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Probably scare the manchild trudope into doing something stupid.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: steeltraps] #7643465
08/06/22 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by steeltraps
Originally Posted by Boco
Have it up north in winter-separate the men from the boys-big country up there-the snareman would take it.

I dont think It would be a good idea for some of this crew To try to cross an International boarder! LOL !!

You dont have to go that far.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7644745
08/07/22 07:57 PM
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Central Ohio
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I've trapped both sides of the border

( not that this is what this thread is about )

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7644749
08/07/22 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LT GREY
I've trapped both sides of the border

( not that this is what this thread is about )

I'm peeing on this reply! Lol (LT don't get too offended please!)


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7650613
08/15/22 04:49 PM
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...this thread is about urine. It was just a bad joke.


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Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7651175
08/16/22 01:31 PM
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Trappers use of urine at a set is not about duplicating what an animal does naturally but as a fear eliminater. An animal smells anothers odor & makes it feel safer about approaching

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: patrapperbuster] #7651238
08/16/22 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by patrapperbuster
Trappers use of urine at a set is not about duplicating what an animal does naturally but as a fear eliminater. An animal smells anothers odor & makes it feel safer about approaching

That would be my theory also based of watching coyotes reactions to urine on video

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7651882
08/17/22 02:50 PM
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Based on that. . .let's dump a gallon of urine in a garden sprayer and adjust the nozzle to 'mist' and cover the entire area 5ft X 5 ft

Now, as strange and unnatural as that may seem. . .I've done that plenty of times.



What happens when an animal is trapped ?
It urinates and (often defecates) and spreads it all around as it digs, so the urine odor is all over that entire (trap) circle.
So, the area where the animal was trapped, often reeks of urine.
What's the difference ?

Well , to answer that, it's body odor, period.
Now, want to duplicate that ?

Here's a simple trick I use :

Skin a coyote, then take the entire hide and soak it in a clean bucket of rainwater, overnight.
The water now reeks of coyote !
Pour it into a 'garden sprayer' , turn the nozzle to mist, and spray the entire set area.

* to concentrate this odor : freeze the water, then turn it upside down and allow the 'funk' to drain leaving the 'ice' behind. . .

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7651898
08/17/22 03:14 PM
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Back when we were kids, the old timers told us to wash our hands with fox urine before making a set. All we used back then was a pine cone soaked in fox urine down a hole. Weíd use the classic V with logs and brush piled up on the point covering the hole. We didnít have coyotes back then, or at least not many. When we were done with a set it reeked of fox urine. And yeah, we caught coons, fox, and bobcats of those sets regularly. How? I donít have a clue because weíd make our pans so lose if a mouse hopped across it then it would snap. Keep in mind we were about 12 or so too, lol.

Typing that made me realize I havenít made a set like that since those days. Just for old times sake I just might. The wife might forbid me from coming inside if I wash my hands in fox pee though.

Last edited by Wanna Be; 08/17/22 03:16 PM.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Wanna Be] #7651920
08/17/22 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Back when we were kids, the old timers told us to wash our hands with fox urine before making a set. All we used back then was a pine cone soaked in fox urine down a hole. Weíd use the classic V with logs and brush piled up on the point covering the hole. We didnít have coyotes back then, or at least not many. When we were done with a set it reeked of fox urine. And yeah, we caught coons, fox, and bobcats of those sets regularly. How? I donít have a clue because weíd make our pans so lose if a mouse hopped across it then it would snap. Keep in mind we were about 12 or so too, lol.

Typing that made me realize I havenít made a set like that since those days. Just for old times sake I just might. The wife might forbid me from coming inside if I wash my hands in fox pee though.

Lol, that made me giggle!


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7653856
08/20/22 08:56 AM
08/20/22 08:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
Here's another funny story for you then. . .


Years ago, at the NTA show, an old timer would have a bottle that you couldn't see through, and inside the bottle was plain water.

When young kids would come up to his booth at a convention, he would ask them if they wanted to smell what real high-quality urine smells like.
Some would say ''Yes".
He would then open the cap and extend the bottle toward them, so they could smell it. . .but what they didn't know, is he had rubbed his index finger with 'spiked' fox urine and the kids were actually smelling the scent on the top of the finger that held the bottle, NOT what was inside.

They would always recoil of course, with a curled lip
He would then say, that if you really wanted to know how good the urine was, you should take a sip. . .to which he would put the bottle to his lip, using the other hand and take a drink. . .

Those kids eyes would be as big as saucers !

He sold a lot of pints of urine !
laugh

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654076
08/20/22 06:08 PM
08/20/22 06:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 4,019
Aliceville, Kansas 43
Yukon John Offline
trapper
Yukon John  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 4,019
Aliceville, Kansas 43
Hahaha!


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654087
08/20/22 06:26 PM
08/20/22 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,277
PA
P
PAskinner Offline
trapper
PAskinner  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,277
PA
Thorpe would liberally squirt urine all over the set and around it, kneel in the mess and make his set.
He caught canines.
Many of the old timers used urine like a cover scent.


Right now Iím having amnesia and dťjŗ vu at the same time. I think Iíve forgotten this before.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: PAskinner] #7654185
08/20/22 08:17 PM
08/20/22 08:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
Originally Posted by PAskinner
Thorpe would liberally squirt urine all over the set and around it, kneel in the mess and make his set.
He caught canines.
Many of the old timers used urine like a cover scent.

Johnny, on his own account, claimed to have smoked 5 packs of cigarettes a day.
Who do you know that does that ?

He was trying to cover up his tobacco odor. I know a lot of people who smoke. I seriously doubt animals are afraid of tobacco. But, it will shorten your life. . .and that is the real damage to a trapper

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654208
08/20/22 08:44 PM
08/20/22 08:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,277
PA
P
PAskinner Offline
trapper
PAskinner  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,277
PA
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Originally Posted by PAskinner
Thorpe would liberally squirt urine all over the set and around it, kneel in the mess and make his set.
He caught canines.
Many of the old timers used urine like a cover scent.

Johnny, on his own account, claimed to have smoked 5 packs of cigarettes a day.
Who do you know that does that ?

He was trying to cover up his tobacco odor. I know a lot of people who smoke. I seriously doubt animals are afraid of tobacco. But, it will shorten your life. . .and that is the real damage to a trapper
He quit smoking long before I visited for instructions.
I don't think he was overly concerned about human scent at that time but it was the way a lot of that generation were taught to trap foxes. Pete Rickard may have been influencial in that. Most of the old books tell you to sprinkle your set with urine.


Right now Iím having amnesia and dťjŗ vu at the same time. I think Iíve forgotten this before.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654261
08/20/22 09:39 PM
08/20/22 09:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,809
Idaho
B
bearcat2 Offline
trapper
bearcat2  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,809
Idaho
I seen a guy giving instructions on trapping wolves who used the dried flake "coyote urine" sold as a deer repellent in the gardening section. He would take the shaker and shake it all over his set like salting a plate of food. Claimed he did the same for coyotes. I don't know how successful he was, I tried it on a couple of sets without success, but I didnt really have confidence in it and didn't figure either that it would smell natural or that I wanted urine everywhere even if it did. So I never tried it enough to give it a fair trail.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: bearcat2] #7654303
08/20/22 10:26 PM
08/20/22 10:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
Originally Posted by bearcat2
I seen a guy giving instructions on trapping wolves who used the dried flake "coyote urine" sold as a deer repellent in the gardening section. He would take the shaker and shake it all over his set like salting a plate of food. Claimed he did the same for coyotes. I don't know how successful he was, I tried it on a couple of sets without success, but I didnt really have confidence in it and didn't figure either that it would smell natural or that I wanted urine everywhere even if it did. So I never tried it enough to give it a fair trail.



IMO, if you're using that type of product, there's more than one flake on that trap line . . .
laugh

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7654710
08/21/22 02:10 PM
08/21/22 02:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
M
MattLA Offline
trapper
MattLA  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Recently, I saw a video ( DVD ), where a man who I admire and respect commented that when a coyote buries a piece of meat, it "pees on it". . .

Hold on a second . . .

I have, over the years, many times, watched both foxes and coyotes using the aid of binoculars, and I've never once seen them urinate on a morsel after burying it.
Neither has any field biologist I've ever talked with, seen documented, or read any of their written material on the subject.
In fact, quite the opposite.
I have watched countless documentaries on wolves, coyotes, foxes, and jackals.
While I've watched them all bury partially eaten food, I've never seen them mark the spot with urine.

But. . .that's what trappers do.

And it isn't natural !

Marking a spot with urine attracts an animal to a certain spot
And why would you want to attract attention to something you want to hide ?


A good way to get it stolen, if you ask me.

Canines know this and that's why they do NOT mark buried food, IMO.
That's been my experience, Therefore, my belief.


But trappers do it and they do it with bottled, aged urine.
Why is that ?

Somewhere on here, I read a thread about making a Cache Set, where, if I understood it correctly, buried the bait and then set the trap right over the bait.
To me, that seems like a good way to find your trap exposed and dug up, if not snapped off.
Granted an animal could get caught in a trap, set on a hair trigger, but why would you not place the trap where the animal would step, as opposed to overtop the bait ?

I've set a good many Cashe Sets, all with the trap out font, none of them with urine.
If I do use urine, it's always upwind, at another set.
That makes far more sense to me.

When a canine buries a piece of food (flesh), it rakes out a shallow hole with both front feet, tucks the morsel in the hole using its mouth, then fills in the hole, using its nose.
It doesn't then mark it with urine.
It simply walks away

And so should you. . .


It makes sense to do this to me to protect the cache, when another animal smells their pee they are just going to assume that the coyote was there, and may not smell the food. Coyotes on the other hand apparently have one of the greatest noses in the woods, so it would know if other coyotes are passing through. I also don't really place merit in field biologist never hearing about it, last year I was out in the woods 10x than any state field biologist in the entire state combined. My dog also pees on the woodline, as well as poops there everyday, if she smells something else she will pee on that spot. Not as experienced as most on here, but just my opinion.

I will test this though this year, I'll get some steak and bury it and pee on the spot where it's buried, see how long it stays. I will update you.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7655621
08/22/22 04:35 PM
08/22/22 04:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 826
Alaska/Washington
D
Dragger Offline
trapper
Dragger  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 826
Alaska/Washington
After filling holes with bait, squirting urine and smearing lure for 3 years, I'd leave it all at home except for my rotted mouse bait for coyotes.

Unfortunately I'm in a "cage only" state so it doesn't matter much but with 3 to 8 holes in a bank, the "mice only" out preforms everything especially in the middle of summer.

Some of my other baits/lures get great responses but not in the heat of the summer.

For what it's worth..


Give an illegal alien a fish and he eats for a day. Deport him and you never have to feed him ever again!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7669402
09/11/22 06:24 PM
09/11/22 06:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
Shame Washington state has lost it's trapping rights on foot holds

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7669747
09/12/22 08:59 AM
09/12/22 08:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 826
Alaska/Washington
D
Dragger Offline
trapper
Dragger  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 826
Alaska/Washington
Yep. Sucks for sure! Coyote trapping was definitely in the top 10 of things I enjoyed in life.
I now use dirthole sets to locate active coyote areas then hunt them with my thermal equipment. Odds of a response seem to go way up where holes are dug up and way cheaper/faster than running cameras.


Give an illegal alien a fish and he eats for a day. Deport him and you never have to feed him ever again!
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7683022
10/01/22 09:17 AM
10/01/22 09:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,398
lovington NM
T
TravC Offline
"MCnasty"
TravC  Offline
"MCnasty"
T

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,398
lovington NM
"Fox, cats, coyotes and yes, even wolves seldom, if ever scent mark over aged bottled urine, as we've been led to believe by writers of the past.
It's B S !
Oh, they'll walk straight up to it and smell it. They'll do the same where you pee , but they won't scent mark aged urine.
It does NOT have that effect, which is why it doesn't warrant that response."


Wont . Never always Three words that will make a liar out of anyone


News to me coyotes wont work aged urine.
Guess i better just shoot the coyote in my pen and quit useing urine lt said it wouldnt work


There i said it....
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: TravC] #7683026
10/01/22 09:25 AM
10/01/22 09:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,849
alabama
steeltraps Offline
trapper
steeltraps  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,849
alabama
Same here TravC. Going up to lure shed now and pour out my last 2 year old gallon of SMC urine. Momday I will get us some commercial coyote urine ! LoL!!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: MattLA] #7684051
10/02/22 07:53 PM
10/02/22 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,430
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,430
Louisiana
Originally Posted by Tofan
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Recently, I saw a video ( DVD ), where a man who I admire and respect commented that when a coyote buries a piece of meat, it "pees on it". . .

Hold on a second . . .

I have, over the years, many times, watched both foxes and coyotes using the aid of binoculars, and I've never once seen them urinate on a morsel after burying it.
Neither has any field biologist I've ever talked with, seen documented, or read any of their written material on the subject.
In fact, quite the opposite.
I have watched countless documentaries on wolves, coyotes, foxes, and jackals.
While I've watched them all bury partially eaten food, I've never seen them mark the spot with urine.

But. . .that's what trappers do.

And it isn't natural !

Marking a spot with urine attracts an animal to a certain spot
And why would you want to attract attention to something you want to hide ?


A good way to get it stolen, if you ask me.

Canines know this and that's why they do NOT mark buried food, IMO.
That's been my experience, Therefore, my belief.


But trappers do it and they do it with bottled, aged urine.
Why is that ?

Somewhere on here, I read a thread about making a Cache Set, where, if I understood it correctly, buried the bait and then set the trap right over the bait.
To me, that seems like a good way to find your trap exposed and dug up, if not snapped off.
Granted an animal could get caught in a trap, set on a hair trigger, but why would you not place the trap where the animal would step, as opposed to overtop the bait ?

I've set a good many Cashe Sets, all with the trap out font, none of them with urine.
If I do use urine, it's always upwind, at another set.
That makes far more sense to me.

When a canine buries a piece of food (flesh), it rakes out a shallow hole with both front feet, tucks the morsel in the hole using its mouth, then fills in the hole, using its nose.
It doesn't then mark it with urine.
It simply walks away

And so should you. . .


It makes sense to do this to me to protect the cache, when another animal smells their pee they are just going to assume that the coyote was there, and may not smell the food. Coyotes on the other hand apparently have one of the greatest noses in the woods, so it would know if other coyotes are passing through. I also don't really place merit in field biologist never hearing about it, last year I was out in the woods 10x than any state field biologist in the entire state combined. My dog also pees on the woodline, as well as poops there everyday, if she smells something else she will pee on that spot. Not as experienced as most on here, but just my opinion.

I will test this though this year, I'll get some steak and bury it and pee on the spot where it's buried, see how long it stays. I will update you.



I don't think you realize how much our state biologist are out ...


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7685864
10/05/22 09:20 AM
10/05/22 09:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
My catches have always been best when I listened to what the animals told me... I use urine for what it's true intention is, not like frosting on a cake.. aged or fresh lol....


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7685895
10/05/22 10:45 AM
10/05/22 10:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 105
Maine
J
Jkeith Offline
trapper
Jkeith  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 105
Maine
Don't some bait solutions have urine in them? At least one of the bait solutions that I've used had urine in it because I could smell ammonia, that is, unless some other ingredient can produce an ammonia smell. I've never squirted urine down the hole or on bait. On the backing or a tuft of grass to the side? Yes.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Jkeith] #7688325
10/09/22 09:51 AM
10/09/22 09:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,485
Pennsylvania
P
patrapperbuster Offline
trapper
patrapperbuster  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,485
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Jkeith
Don't some bait solutions have urine in them? At least one of the bait solutions that I've used had urine in it because I could smell ammonia, that is, unless some other ingredient can produce an ammonia smell. I've never squirted urine down the hole or on bait. On the backing or a tuft of grass to the side? Yes.



This

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: TravC] #7713006
11/09/22 02:47 PM
11/09/22 02:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,277
Central Ohio
Originally Posted by TravC
"Fox, cats, coyotes and yes, even wolves seldom, if ever scent mark over aged bottled urine, as we've been led to believe by writers of the past.
It's B S !
Oh, they'll walk straight up to it and smell it. They'll do the same where you pee , but they won't scent mark aged urine.
It does NOT have that effect, which is why it doesn't warrant that response."


Wont . Never always Three words that will make a liar out of anyone


News to me coyotes wont work aged urine.
Guess i better just shoot the coyote in my pen and quit useing urine lt said it wouldnt work



TravC , I never said coyotes won't work over aged urine.
I said they don't mark over it as old time writers led us to believe.
Yes, they'll walk up and smell it and step in a concealed trap. NOT what I said.
They don't mark it with their own urine , USUALLY, for the sake of argument.
Night vision cameras has dispelled that myth !

And while we're at it. . .define : aged urine.
Something that you collected from your penned coyotes and then took out on your line and used ?
Or urine that was bought from a supply house that had sat on a shelf for two years ?

While both will catch animals, one has an advantage over the other !

When I collected urine, then took it out on the line, few lures, if any , matched it's appeal.
Not true with most urines sold to trappers today.
Both catch coyotes, yet coyotes will respond to one over the other.

Today many trappers still position their traps at 'post sets' as if the animal is coming up to urinate on the object they have placed, marking it with bottled urine.
Which in most cases, isn't true.
If they placed their traps on the approach or where the animal will stand while smelling the object, their catch would be higher.
Most bottled , aged urine, should be treated as a 'lure'.

Most animals will walk up , smell it, then walk away.
The object should be catch them when they do.

Many will walk over and 'scent mark' another place NOt the object the trapper brought in.
Old urine , while still attractive, on it's odor alone , seldom will evoke that response.

Hay sets, as an example are productive because the animal walks along the mound, smelling the scent, more often than it urinated on it.


Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7803083
02/20/23 03:43 PM
02/20/23 03:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,658
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,658
Marion Kansas
Ttt

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7803102
02/20/23 04:19 PM
02/20/23 04:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,902
NC - Here there and everywhere
C
coondagger2 Offline
"Brat"
coondagger2  Offline
"Brat"
C

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,902
NC - Here there and everywhere
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Something that you collected from your penned coyotes and then took out on your line and used ?
Or urine that was bought from a supply house that had sat on a shelf for two years ?

While both will catch animals, one has an advantage over the other !

When I collected urine, then took it out on the line, few lures, if any , matched it's appeal.
Not true with most urines sold to trappers today.

LT, you know as well as any that this isn't because the supply house urine has been sitting on a shelf, it's because it is either fake urine/summer collected/not meat fed

Don't compare supply house urine with meat fed winter urine that you personally collected, the meat fed winter collected will win every time

Nothing at all wrong with real urine that has been aged awhile. I have real meat fed winter collected urine from 2018. Ages like a fine wine


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7803711
02/21/23 11:29 AM
02/21/23 11:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,890
west virginia usa
R
randall brannon Offline
trapper
randall brannon  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,890
west virginia usa
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Shame Washington state has lost it's trapping rights on foot holds

That is a shame. That is also one of the reasons I did not like Florida. I even had a nosy neighbor sic the Police on me for having some Foothold traps hanging in my shed. I bought them at a rummage sale for pennies. It is not illegal to Posses them just to set them is what the Officer told her.


God please keep they 19 fallen UBB miners out of trouble up there.
Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: randall brannon] #7803754
02/21/23 12:15 PM
02/21/23 12:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 302
Va
S
Spike369 Offline
trapper
Spike369  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 302
Va
Originally Posted by randall brannon
Originally Posted by LT GREY
Shame Washington state has lost it's trapping rights on foot holds

That is a shame. That is also one of the reasons I did not like Florida. I even had a nosy neighbor sic the Police on me for having some Foothold traps hanging in my shed. I bought them at a rummage sale for pennies. It is not illegal to Posses them just to set them is what the Officer told her.

I read the Washington trapping regs and am wondering what traps are legal? It seems Washington has eliminated all traps. Am I reading it wrong?

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7805925
02/24/23 12:06 AM
02/24/23 12:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,809
Idaho
B
bearcat2 Offline
trapper
bearcat2  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,809
Idaho
Cage traps, colony traps, etc. are legal in Washington. As are the Koro rat traps (don't ask me why they are, but they are the only bodygripping trap legal). Other than the Koro rat trap no trap that grips the body are a part of the body (footholds) is legal. I believe they amended it to make mole traps and mouse traps legal, they were not when they first passed the law but the golfers didn't like moles tearing up their golf courses after they voted to eliminate bodygripping traps.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: bearcat2] #7806022
02/24/23 08:10 AM
02/24/23 08:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 302
Va
S
Spike369 Offline
trapper
Spike369  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 302
Va
Originally Posted by bearcat2
Cage traps, colony traps, etc. are legal in Washington. As are the Koro rat traps (don't ask me why they are, but they are the only bodygripping trap legal). Other than the Koro rat trap no trap that grips the body are a part of the body (footholds) is legal. I believe they amended it to make mole traps and mouse traps legal, they were not when they first passed the law but the golfers didn't like moles tearing up their golf courses after they voted to eliminate bodygripping traps.

I guess I didn't read it wrong. Basically trapping is outlawed.

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Spike369] #7806029
02/24/23 08:25 AM
02/24/23 08:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 56
Sultan , Wa
Jakeland Offline
trapper
Jakeland  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 56
Sultan , Wa
Originally Posted by Spike369
Originally Posted by bearcat2
Cage traps, colony traps, etc. are legal in Washington. As are the Koro rat traps (don't ask me why they are, but they are the only bodygripping trap legal). Other than the Koro rat trap no trap that grips the body are a part of the body (footholds) is legal. I believe they amended it to make mole traps and mouse traps legal, they were not when they first passed the law but the golfers didn't like moles tearing up their golf courses after they voted to eliminate bodygripping traps.

I guess I didn't read it wrong. Basically trapping is outlawed.

Trapping is legal and actually growing! I catch as many cats with cages as I did with conventional traps but just canít carry as many 😃. Swim through cages for beaver . Otter and rats are very effective and the koro rat trap are killers on mink and marten ! Mole traps are still illegal though
After all that I would love to have the use of all conventional traps but itíll never happen again

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: LT GREY] #7806489
02/24/23 07:45 PM
02/24/23 07:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 302
Va
S
Spike369 Offline
trapper
Spike369  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 302
Va
Man, now I'm really confused. My first year trapping and I only caught 1 coyote. Coyotes are what I want to catch but I don't seem smart enough. I'm going to try everything, Dirt holes with pee, dirt holes without pee. Sets with bait sets without bait. I don't know , I just can't figure out how to get coyotes. I even have 2 dozen snares out and can't get any. You guys make it seem easy, but it ain't!!

Re: Upsetting the 'Apple' cart. . . [Re: Spike369] #7806603
02/24/23 10:27 PM
02/24/23 10:27 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 8,490
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 8,490
SW Georgia
Originally Posted by Spike369
Man, now I'm really confused. My first year trapping and I only caught 1 coyote. Coyotes are what I want to catch but I don't seem smart enough. I'm going to try everything, Dirt holes with pee, dirt holes without pee. Sets with bait sets without bait. I don't know , I just can't figure out how to get coyotes. I even have 2 dozen snares out and can't get any. You guys make it seem easy, but it ain't!!

Read anything in the archives about coyotes. Read Savells and Steeltraps post. Keep it simple. Bed solid. Set on sign. Donít over lure.

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