I figured I should probably put some more time into patterning my gun for turkey season this year, I've never killed a turkey before, does this pattern look alright? I probably ought to hold left a bit but I see all the pictures of some wicked patterns with tss and such but do you really need all that?
35 yds
#5 federal grand slam 20ga.
HS Undertaker
26" Mossberg 500

I've shot alot of gobblers and I would not be happy with that pattern at all .

Yes. It could be tighter and more even in the center but you have enough hits to do the deed.

Also when shooting turkeys don't just sit there watching the flop like you see on all the videos. Safe the gun and move ASAP to put your foot on it's neck until the flopping stops. I often wonder how many of those videos edit out the flop and up and running bad shots. Turkeys can be tough.

My last one still had fire in his eye when I got to him and that was a 25 yard shot.

Will it kill I say yes you have some in kill zone, it only takes one. However I like it a little tighter. I would pick up a couple different types of shot and shell. Shoot and compare. Tss is way to go if available and you have the money, but you will pay. Not sure what's available on your area shell wise. But I have Mossberg 500 in 12 with an underertaker and have had good patterns with nitros.

I would not be happy with that. Add in a few sticks and limps, that turkeys flys off. TSS seems expensive until you figure in all that goes with it. Unless you shoot s pile of turkey, after you get patterned. 5 will last you a long time. It will turn your 20 ga into a turkey killing machine, that will rival any 12 ga.

If you want to stick to lead, try a 6 shot. The Winchester LB do ok. What is the construction of your choke?

looks good to me. adjust your pattern to the left a tad and dont shoot any further at a bird. the shot you made would have put it down. do what warrier said when it starts its flop.

Not a pattern I’d use if your off to the right a bit the hole in the pattern gets even bigger.

Minimal


Ideal

Try 6s

Not enough pattern for me to say.

Shoot it on a bigger sheet so you can evaluate the pattern better.

It's most likely good enough, I've killed a bunch of birds and I bet more than 75% were under 20yrds with 95% under 30.

For only 35 yards I'd keep trying something different

it will but not what I'd like agree on 6 shot i still use my model 12 12 gauge 30 inch full

M e either

they are expensive but get a 5 pack of 3" TSS #9's, nothing kills like TSS

According to that pattern it will kill. Would I hunt with it no. You can spend alot on pattering. I shot several different shells and choke tubes over the years in a 3.5 Mossberg and then I bought a primos Jelly head and Winchester Long beard #5 and did a pattern test and was very happy. As mentioned above those TSS in a 20 are the ticket.

Not a pattern I would head to the woods with. If you do not want to go TSS with an appropriate choke, try other shells or shot sizes and different choke tubes until you hit a much better combination. The only way you will figure it out is to try different combinations. Reducing the distance is another way to improve your chance of a clean kill but distance is easy to misjudge in the heat of the moment.

And if you do go TSS, a tighter choke is not usually what patterns best. And, yes, you need to pattern TSS also so you know how the gun/shell combination performs.

if you are interested in shooting TSS look up nitro ammunition and check out their recomendations page

35 yds at a turkey is pushing it for a 20 unless you get TSS in the pipe

Everyone saying 3 inch I've had better luck 2 3/4, funny how it differs person to person. Gun to gun.

The problem with the original post pattern is if you add a little cover between the bird and shooter it’s a missed or lost bird most likely, it would be questionable if the shot was clear.

I use an Undertaker choke in my turkey gun and I use Winchester Long Beard #5s in 3inch shells and love my pattern. Plus it's alot cheaper than TSS loads.

^This. See if you can get a hold of some longbeard #5's. Have patterned a Stevens, Mossberg and sxp all with different chokes including an undertaker and all have been good honest 40 yard patterns.

Screw that tss stuff unless you like burning cash.

Lead has been killing stuff for centuries and it ain't quit working yet.

I'd buy up as many good loads as possible. And by good I mean plated shot, nickel better than copper, packed with buffer. In shot size 6 or 5.

In a 20 I wouldn't try 4.

6 carries killing power to 35 yards while 5 adds another five yards. You might squeeze another five for each if you up the velocity. But velocity is gained by loss of payload weight so its a trade off and the 20 is hampered by a smaller payload to start with.

My guess is 6s will give you the best pattern but I'd try to find a 5 that will as I favor power.

Then if possible try different extended choke tubes designed for lead. I'm happy with my straight rifled Bailey turkey trauma.

Now if you got deep pockets the tss stuff is heavier than lead and you can drop down in shot size for more shot. But tss comes with it's own totally different needs when it comes to chokes. Just don't buy into the fools who claim it makes the irresponsible way out past fifty yard shots doable.

That pattern is why when anyone hunts with me they use my gun or show me their pattern sheet. No way I’d hunt with that. And that’s only 35, if you’re off a few yards on your estimate you won’t have that many on the sheet. When I shoot, I don’t have to run to a bird…unless they’re flopping down a mountain, lol.

Try TSS, I’m shooting #9 and sometimes #10 in a 20ga. I wouldn’t shoot a 12ga or lead again if I had a lifetime supply of each.

Go hunt. People get hung up on patterning guns in my opinion. I don’t enjoy shooting turkey loads at paper, just go kill a turkey. Get him in close , that’s the fun of turkey hunting anyway. I like hearing him spit and drum, gobble so hard your hair stands up. I’ve killed a whole lotta birds and a whole little paper.

John

I had that problem with my 870. I had a big hole in the pattern at 30 yards. I went and bought a Carlson turkey choke and that helped a lot.

Hope you don’t hunt deer the same way you hunt turkeys, lol. Just buy a rifle and some bullets and go to shooting.

I’d start with a 12 ga also a 20 ga is something a guy works his way to, its a disadvantage to begin with so get that first turkey in the freezer then go with a lesser gauge. A lot is going on with a first bird mistakes will often be made take all the advantages you can.

This is a very important point. Especially considering that your first turkey is likely to get the nerves bouncing pretty good. With a pattern like that I would have little confidence that it would result in a dead turkey. Don't get discouraged though as every load patterns differently. every gun is different too. One of the best turkey loads I have shot were actually 2-3\4 inch #5 pheasant loads. Now I wouldn't stretch that to 40 yards, but 30 was doable. If 5 shot doesn't pattern well, try some 6 shot. Personally I would pattern at 30 yards with every load so there is some standardization to whittle down the contenders. The respective pattern densities will show you which one to use and which could stretch a little further.

Enjoy - its a blast!

Shoot that same load at 30 yards and it may be a ton better. I would still shoot a couple more loads personally, just to see. I am no turkey pro by any stretch but ive probably shot around 20 birds and have been hunting consistently 15 years or so. Out of those birds, i bet 75 percent were 25 yards or less.
Take a range finder and hit some landmarks like trees, bushes ect as soon as you sit down. Know your limits and stick to them. Depending on where you are sitting or the lay of the land, distances are deceiving. I remember one specific spot a few years ago my buddy was ranging and I didnt want to believe it til I walked it off. 60 yards. (I actually trusted him and wouldnt have shot). I swore it was 45, which ive set as my gun/load’s limit. I can still see it and man it looked a ton closer.
Ive watched birds veer off at 50-60 yards but those wouldnt have been nearly as fun as the 20-30 yarders, or even closer. Ill stick with lead for now, because ive never come close to losing a bird. If I ever move away from a 12 gauge, I may go tss. That mossberg mossy oak .410 is appealing for some reason.

Here in KS just the tag costs more than a dressed turkey at the grocery store. I would not keep spending. Pretty obvious that one will work. When your deer hunting do you shoot through a bush so you can miss or wait till you good a shot to pull the trigger?

I shoot a Benelli Super 90 12 gauge equipped with extended choke tube with 3 inch 6 shot preferred and have killed several over 50 yards in open fields , bought this gun in 1999 after my 5500 Mossberg blew to pieces on me in Sonora Texas.

You guys saying its too expensive to shoot TSS, how much you got in your dedicated deer rifle? the scope? what about camo clothing? and spend how much in fuel to hunt? but complain about an extra 10 bucks for 2 rounds of ammo to tag out during turkey season. Set up right a TSS shotgun puts most of the shot in a 10" circle at 40 yards, that leaves no shot in the edible parts of the turkey if you do your part.

Not enough pellets in that load IMO. 35 yards, I wouldn't take the shot. I don't shoot 20 gauge's for turkey. When my kids did distance was 15 yards.

I drive about 3 hours to a friends to let my grandson deer hunt. I get to visit. His grandkids are there too. its a youth season. So its a combination thing.

I dont drive 5 miles to deer hunt.

Doesn't matter how much your firearm costs. How many guns do you own that will sell right now for less than you paid?

You guys do what you want. Looks to me like that gun with that ammo WILL kill a turkey.

Lots of misinformation in this thread with opinions that will lead to nothing but injured turkeys

Not to sound rude, but please leave that gun and ammo combination in the safe

Or find a shell that puts at least 120 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards

So your great great great great grandfather shoulda never dumped 80 grains of black powder in his 60 caliber musket, a wad of tow, some shot, another wad of tow then went turkey hunting? You need to quit reading hunting mags and watching tv.

If you need TSS to kill a Turkey you're not getting close enough. Not worth the expense and have fun finding #9 TSS in the meat. Let the flaming begin.

Hey I know about tow.

He needs to keep buying more shotguns
until finding one that shoots the shells better.
Or just use the bow and arrow.

Have to laugh at this??? Don't get hung up on patterning guns? You are joking right?

I started out with just a cheap $20 box call, killed a jake the first year. I now have 6 box calls, numerous slate, glass, copper, locater, etc. A Berretta Turkey extrema gun, Indian Creek choke.
But heaven forbid I spend another $10 on "A" shell? Many turkeys were killed before TSS hit the market. Many deer were killed with recurves before compound then crossbows that could reach
80 yards. Things evolve and help us cripple less game. No way on this planet I'd take that pattern to the turkey woods, been doing this for close to 40 years.

I shot my first 3 turkeys with a NEF 12 gauge, single shot with a modified choke. 3 inch remington nitro mag shells, # 6 lead shot. Its a 20 yard gun. It took me 3 years to get good enough at calling to get my first turkey. You don't need space age shells to kill them. You need to know the limits of your gun/load. And stay within your limits. I've killed a pile of turkeys with a flintlock 20 gage, cylinder bore. That's also a 20 yard gun. 85 grains 3F powder and 1 5/8 oz. #6 lead. If I had my choice, I'd use my 36 caliber flintlock rifle, but WI law doesn't allow that.

This 100%. Shoot, get to the bird as fast as safe and I always cut the throat. No worries about them running off then.

I was able to find an old pic of longbeard #6 out of a 20 gauge sxp with either the undertaker choke or Carlson longbeard choke can't remember for sure. 40 yards. This is what I consider a good usable pattern at that range. This should give you an idea of kinda what you might be looking for. Both arguments on this thread have some merit. If I was going to go out tomorrow and all I had was the pattern you posted i'd still be going hunting but on the flip side if you're going through the effort to pattern your gun and be confident in your setup you can improve on that pattern quite a bit by trying some different shells and/or choke combo.

On a side note giving the barrel a good swabbing can help if your gun doesn't get cleaned often. Seen it make a world of difference on some guns and no change on others.

Crippled game isn't the gun/bow/arrows fault. It's the hunter's fault, every time. Too far, too obstructed. You have to wait for a clean, ethical shot. All the do-dads and space age materials doesn't change that.

The fact that our country exists is proof that a 62 caliber smooth bore flintlock can keep a family fed and protected. I bet at 35 yards there is no pattern when tow was the wadding. Even spanish moss in the south was used. No shot cups, no chokes. No diaphragm calls.

If someone wants to spend what it takes to reliably kill turkeys at 70 yards, good for them. Just don't look down your nose at people who will not. Wanna shoot a deer with carbon arrows and an incredibly fast compound bow? Get out there and do it. Just don't look down on the guy who knaps flint arrowheads, hafts them to hand made cedar arrow shafts, ties on turkey feathers, makes a self bow, then hunts deer by climbing a tree and standing on a limb, or stalking real slow into the wind.

Yes but would they have used a 62 caliber smooth bore if something better was available? And vise versa to the guy that wants to kill the first bird he can and keep hunting for the next one, just don’t look down your nose at that group!

For those of you wanting extended range and 100% kills, get a good 22-250, find a load she likes, and practice a lot. Leave the fancy calls at home and drive around the local farm fields, you got the ability for real extended range shots. Just make sure and do it when the warden is on the other end of the county.

Entirely meant as satire, you law dogs don't be getting your hackles up, it is only a joke. Although some of the local poachers would argue the viability of my joke.

In all sincerity, turkey been getting killed for years without the use of all the new fancy chokes and shot. Figure out the capabilities of your particular gear and hunt accordingly. I knew many old timers that fed there families with nothing more than a 22 rifle even though many would say taking large game and birds would be impossible with such equipment. I wish you luck.

I've killed a few turkeys over the years. I loaded my 2 3/4 inch shells with 1 1/2 oz of #4 shot in a 12 gauge Browning with a full choke. The farthest shot was 34 yards. The closest was 26 yards. This was on the ones I paced the distance on. Every turkey I killed died on the spot. I don't think you need a huge magnum with these expensive shells to kill a turkey unless you're taking some really long shots, IMO.

It is a bird, not a African big game animal. I have shot a few turkeys and 100's of geese and cranes. Every turkey I ever shot at dropped dead. I never patterned the gun or the shells. It had a modified choke in it, That was what was in it when I bought it. Learn to judge distance and to shoot and keep your shots within range.

Brown or white turkeys?

I have been killing turk for close to 50 yrs and I say that is a sad pattern to try and take a turk with. I have killed them with 20 ga, 12 ga and 10ga. shells long ago were (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) and had to get them closer now with fancy shells and specialized chokes 60 yds is easy for 10 ga or a 12 ga 3.5inch.
as others have said change the shells and choke till you find the right combo. or just trade in the 20ga for a 10ga or a 12 3.5inch mag.
t

I am betting the guy with the 62 cal smooth bore would have gladly traded, for that we have today. It worked but it was all he had, it had to work. There have been improvements since then. Same way the cave man was happy with a spear over his club. He was more successful and did not have to get within 2 feet. He will spend the same amount buy a few boxes of lead to find one that patterns good. It's hard to find a 20 ga load with enough lead to have a good pattern with 5 shot. I have killed lots of turkeys with lead still use it when I hunt with my 12 ga, which is not often. Seeing the difference between what lead was like and TSS I switched, never looked back. Found the right combo and bought a case of it. Will I ever use it all, I doubt it. But I am sure someone will.

The job of magazine writers is to sell stuff. Not educate

Most bird hunters that check their patterns might be like myself. After missing a couple long beards at reasonable ranges forced my to check my gun. My gun at the time was a 870 express with screw in full choke. I used this gun because it is one that can get dropped in the mud or banged up against trees. Just not worried about how it looks. At 25 yards this gun had close to a 8 inch hole in the pattern. Something I have never seen. I needed to purchase a choke to try to eliminate that problem which it did. I used to use a Winchester model 50 12 gauge with a factory full choke barrel. Back then there was never a need to pattern test. It would do damage. But now that gun sits in the safe.

Best pattern I’ve ever seen was with a Mossberg pump my Nephew uses with the factory choke amazing coverage.

I’ve witnessed guys shoot paper until their arms are blue , trying to get every pellet they can into a tiny circle at a ridiculous range for a turkey. If that’s your style? Go for it. My message is this... you don’t need to spend crazy money and lose sleep over patterning a dang turkey gun . It’s a scatter gun, call him in and kill him. If you want to shoot them at 60-80 yards you might as well use a rifle. I like getting close, that’s the thrill to me. And it’s worked, I’ve killed my 2 home state birds every year since I was a kid and have bounced around few states for turkey. I know a lot of you guys are also avid turkey hunters, and successful. I’m not saying this is the best pattern as pictured, but I’d spend more time scouting, practicing calling, and focus on the hunt rather than getting so wrapped up in a perfect pattern.

Wannabe ( to answer your comment ) I hand load for my rifles. Enjoy shooting long range. When I gun hunt my goal is not to get close. I bow hunt to get close. Different ball game. I also turkey hunt to get close.

So back to the OP’s question, Will this pattern kill?

Yes it will kill but It’s certainly not as tight as I would want it. If you’re going to hunt with that gun I’d make sure the bird is close, within 25 yards. In order to get them close, focus on calling, being patient, sitting still, and learning the turkey woods. Good luck and have fun.

Without a doubt and no hesitation I would absolutely NOT even point that pattern at a turkey. I have been fortunate enough to harvest a lot of turkeys from all over. I have 5 dedicated turkey guns. I have one now that I only use and I won't go into that but I will say one is a Mossberg 500 12 ga 25". I would be looking for a lot more density than that which can probably be achieved with different ammo. or move closer and limit your shots to a range that the gun will give you an adequate pattern

Good Lord Law Dog!!! There would be no head left on that one. It probably would not even flop!!!

I have always hunted with my Browning Pump 10 Gauge and have killed every one between 10 and 65 yards, that gun shoots 5 shot and shoots it very tight. Now with 6 shot it does not do as well at longer range. It also does very well on Ducks and Geese. I also have a Mossburg 835 that does a great job at long distances. I have a Benelli that does good with 4 shot but sucks with 6 shot. Sometimes I think different guns shoot Different loads better than others.

If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of choke are you using in the 10? I have a BPS, but it doesn’t pattern 5 shot well past 35 yards for some reason.

Thats the plan what is this flop you speak of? LOL

Try 20 yards.

Guess I’m in the minority, I can’t believe how many guys don’t think you need to pattern a shotgun? Went pheasant hunting with a guy with a new never shot gun, he was missing everything, found out his pattern was shooting 5-6” to the left? Brand new guns don’t always shoot where you’re aiming them!

Scary the amount of bad advice here my guess it’s from people with little real experience with hunting them. First day and the 3rd week into the season are 2 way different birds to hunt, Public birds are even worse to even get a bead on them.

Ave, I have shot 10 ga for yrs mine love heavy shot mag blend you might try it 60yds is a flop everytime. But yrs ago I put a scope on it as the pattern was to the right without scope and trying to guess where to hold a longer ranges just isnt good. farthest bird ever took was at 70yds in a wide open field he went down and I ran up quick stomped his head and was prepared to have to shoot him more if need be actually I expected to but got lucky. i use a sp10 most times.

You don’t understand TSS and have never shot it have you, lol. TSS doesn’t get hung up in the meat. A properly patterned shotgun/choke/shell load hits where you aim…not all over the turkey. In the event you do get some stray shot it passes through. My son got excited on his Washington Merriam last year and shot a little early. Bird was dead right where hit shot it. When cleaning we found where some shot went through the left breast, through the center cartilage, and out the right breast. The only way we knew it went all the way through was they fact it drug a feather completely through with it…the feather was poking out of the right side breast. And for the record out of 5-6 turkeys last year, my farthest shot was 23yds. TSS is for those open prairie areas where I think it’s 30yds in the excitement and realize it was a little farther when going to pick up my bird. I’ve never seen a wounded turkey from TSS, but have shot birds with plenty of old lead shot in them.

I agree that's why I always use a Duke number one coil spring for coyotes cause if you can't get them to step dead center on that little pan your doing it wrong!

Lol!!!!

Wanna Be, it is a wasted effort to explain

Lots of talk that have no experience with TSS. Shoot it and then come back to me and we will talk

Many guys on here have only ever killed a handful of turkeys, and those turkeys were years ago in the "good ole days"

Now every tom, dick, and harry turkey hunt

I never said it can't be done with other methods, just that my method is more effective and efficient, and I load it for about the same price as Longbeard XR lead shot

Regardless of the shells using lead, tss you need a good pattern is what the original poster asked. Just don't want another TSS debate but maybe proper pattern debate?

Good luck. Apparently only TSS has a proper pattern these days.

I knew someone would bite. Coondagger2, Wanna Be I kill my Turkey every year with one shot without TSS. If you can't handle that I don't use TSS that's your issue. Coondagger2 as usual someone making a comment on one's experience without any knowledge of them. Use your TSS if you wish and good luck. Over it!

Plenty of proper patterns can be had with lead

But when you tell someone their pattern isn't good enough here comes the TSS hate train

Swift, please tell me how many turkeys/animals you have killed with TSS. I think you will find my statement to be true

Body count doesn't mean you are a better hunter, it means you are a better killer. Extending your range allows you to kill more. Getting more birds in closer means you are a better hunter. It boils down to what you are after out of your hunt.

LOL The crying over TSS is hilarious.

TSS is King.

I've shot everything over the years. Never thought it would get better than HEVI-SHOT. TSS is absolutely devastating.

No one is crying over TSS. We are simply stating you don't NEED it to kill turkeys. Lead works fine.

Good grief, who said that? Going to talk to my 7 month old grandson, he understands what’s being said better than a lot of grown men

Because every thread for the last few years on here about pattern density can be summed up as "TSS, or you're not a turkey hunter"

Many are missing the point here both will kill a bird dead the top target is 3.5 #5 copper plated shot, the bottom is TSS shot, a good pattern reduces the loss factor gaping holes in a pattern invite problems. Everyone hunts different conditions some hunt new places and don’t know what to expect when they get there some places have little pressure and easier birds some guys hunt pressured birds. Most folks can’t see past their own front bead nothing wrong with being prepared.

So use lead or TSS use what works for you but be responsible for your shots is the point the OP asked about is his pattern it’s inadequate at best.

One of the good things about TSS in a 20 is how well it preforms. With the right load and choke it will outperform most 10s and 12 gauges with lead loads. You don't have to carry a gun that weighs 10 pounds and can shake apples out of the tress with the recoil. Its not so much about killing one father its about how much better the patterns are. One helps with the other if its needed. It turns a 410 into a honest 40 yard turkey gun. If you hiking 5 to 10 miles a day chasing gobblers in these hills, cutting a few pounds is wonderful.

Yes you can kill a turkey with lead just fine, but I have one simple question. Has anyone that has commented on this ever used tss, I mean really used it, and decided it wasn’t worth and extra $5 a shot? I mean how many shots are you going to shoot this year at gobblers? Very few will shoot over 5 shots. That’s $50 a year on really good ammo. How much gas you going to put in your truck to go turkey hunting? You really don’t need gas at all. You can walk to your hunting spot, that’s what people used to do and it worked perfectly well.

As a matter of fact, I do walk to two of my hunting spots from my house. I also CANNOT shoot TSS out of my muzzleloaders, the barrels aren't made for hard shot. I have developed lead shot loads that work for me, and I see no reason to change. When I do hunt with a modern shotgun, I have enough loads from the first time I patterned it 20 years ago to last the rest of my turkey hunting career.

Someone please post a “kill” pattern with lead at 40yds and prefer a ranged 40yds vs I walked it off or I know what 40yds is.
That should shut the TSS crowd up!

Weird how this turned into an us vs. them deal. I have always shot lead but Im definitely not opposed to trying tss. I just really dont wanna shoot turkeys at 60+. My heart beats a lot faster when theyre close enough to look them in the eye. I do like the idea of a very dead turkey at 30 or so. This is why im drawn to doing the .410 or maybe 20 gauge thing with tss. A couple lbs less slung on my shoulder all day makes a big difference.
Any issue shooting tss out of a 50’s ithaca 37 16 gauge??

I shoot both just so it shoots a good pattern is the main goal and point trying to be made here. I have no intention of shooting at a bird at 60 yards its about the calling, no calling no fun.

I won’t shoot a bird past 40 as long as I know the ranges. Open prairies and my judging goes out the window. I can pick a tree and generally be within a yard or two, lol. I prefer them between 25-35ish, any closer and I might miss!
I can see if folks are using decoys and there set out at 15-20yds not using TSS, dove loads would probably work, lol.
But for those that truly hunt turkeys then TSS is the shell to use. If I shot a 12ga or Heaven forbid a 10ga then I probably wouldn’t use TSS either. But, for those smaller gauges it’s a game changer. I don’t equate TSS to distance, I equate it to an awesome pattern of death that when it hits. I know exactly what my pattern is at multiple distances. I shoot it once every year before season and it stays consistently the same. I’ll get a pic of the sheet tomorrow.

Wanna Be is spot on. It’s not about killing them any farther it’s about the patterns you get. A tight core with good coverage all around. It’s also about using a smaller, lighter gun that you don’t give up performance on. I know that if I do my part any gobbler that comes inside 40 to 45 yards will die. He will be dead when I get there. A little flopping and he’s gone. It will flat out penetrate and bones will be broken. A 20 ga with #9 tss will out penetrate a load of #4 lead from a 12 ga.
This top picture is a sheet of aluminum heavy gauge. It was shot with a mossburg 835 3 1/2 load of # 4 LBs. It had been my go to turkey gun for a long time. Shots one of the best patterns with lead 4s I have seen.
It was shot at 42 yards. Just the range it ended up being. A few splits but no pellet passed through.
This is a picture of the same sheet, turned around. It was shot with a 20 ga with # 9 TSS
Was a few hung up in it, but most all passed through it.

I have a valmet 412 that was worked over by Mark Bansner years ago, it shoots as good as any shotgun I ever saw with lead, have taken turkeys with it out to 76 yards, however it will not compare to todays TSS patterns. Why? well TSS is heavier than lead, a #9 TSS will penetrate as well as a #6 lead, there is more #9 TSS in an oz. than there is in an oz. of #6 lead. When set up with the right choke
pellet counts of 500+ hits in a 10 in. circle at 40 yds. are almost the norm shooting a blend of #8's & #9's. shoot what ya want but set up correctly a TSS will come out on top every time. a tremendous confidence booster when you see what it can do.

Remington Youth Model 870 20ga. Sumtoy choke with a Burris FFIII on top.
This is a ranged 42.5yds. Why? It’s just the distance from where the target was to where the shooting station was, lol. Had a left to right stiff wind which really didn’t affect it.
Tell me what you see and I’ll tell you why.


If you think it’s high…it’s because it is. I’ve always put my bead or for the last several years, the red dot on the wattles. Red on red is dead!
Apex 3” #9

I see a dead bird not idea but it’s 42 yards further then I like to shoot.

At .5yds I don’t think it would be fun to carry and definitely not make for a good pic, lol. You’d probably even get some blood splatter on you when it flips.

Had a bird walk right by the wife and I while hunting in MO years ago had a BPS10 at the time it was a very close shot got to the creek washed the head off took about 10 steps and it looked like I never washed it.

I decapitated one once. It fell with no flop. Well that was until I picked it up! That joker made me look like I’d just committed a mass murder with a knife in a very confined space. I got home and the wife thought I’d been shot or something. I no longer decapitate birds and pick them up by their heads after being shot.