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Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021368
12/15/23 10:30 AM
12/15/23 10:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Georgia
P
Philip Stancel Offline
trapper
Philip Stancel  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Oct 2016
Georgia

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021370
12/15/23 10:31 AM
12/15/23 10:31 AM
P
Posco
Unregistered
Posco
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P


I noticed just a passing mention of cleaning brass. How often do your guys tumble your cases and what do you use?

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021376
12/15/23 10:42 AM
12/15/23 10:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
A lot of guys get caught up in the "bling" factor. But unless you are loading dirty range brass, it's not required.

Two common methods........a dry media vibrator using walnut shell or corn cob abrasives........and a wet rotary tumbler........which uses stainless steel pins (about as big around as a sewing needle and maybe 1/2" long), plus water and some dish detergent like Dawn.......and an hour later it comes out all shiny like new..........but then has to be dried down. Major bling factor, but a lot more work. If a guy was loading a few thousand pieces of dirty pistol brass picked up from a range, that juice would be worth the squeeze.


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021399
12/15/23 11:30 AM
12/15/23 11:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
C
Cletis Richards Offline
trapper
Cletis Richards  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
Keep your eyes open...bought two unopened 8lbers....at a fair saving price....one was for 4227....gave Wayne Derrick some of it as he uses it in his hornet.....the other was 4831sc....one for little cartridges and pistol the other for medium to big guys.


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Re: Reloaders [Re: HayDay] #8021402
12/15/23 11:34 AM
12/15/23 11:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
C
Cletis Richards Offline
trapper
Cletis Richards  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
10714 Apple road Carthage,Mo6...
Originally Posted by HayDay
A lot of guys get caught up in the "bling" factor. But unless you are loading dirty range brass, it's not required.

Two common methods........a dry media vibrator using walnut shell or corn cob abrasives........and a wet rotary tumbler........which uses stainless steel pins (about as big around as a sewing needle and maybe 1/2" long), plus water and some dish detergent like Dawn.......and an hour later it comes out all shiny like new..........but then has to be dried down. Major bling factor, but a lot more work. If a guy was loading a few thousand pieces of dirty pistol brass picked up from a range, that juice would be worth the squeeze.

Citric acid and water is another good cleaning solution....research it....the powder form is used to keep fruit from browning during canning....Wally World (walmart) has it.


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Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021414
12/15/23 11:54 AM
12/15/23 11:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by USMC47 🦫
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
rifle , pistol or shotgun?

what calibers are of interest?

what is your reloading goal(s)?
some reloading goals might be
I want a source of my hunting ammo the right load for my gun so I am never without it again.
or
I want the most accurate round I can send for all my rifles I want to build a handload to exceed factory accuracy
or
I need ammo lots and lots of ammo and I want to get it done as cheap as possible
or many many more and maybe more than one

what volume of ammo do you se yourself reloading and for what calibers?



Pete, great questions I hadn’t considered.

I honestly just want 50 rounds per year of each caliber I hunt with. Elk and coyotes.

I’m mainly looking at 7mm Rem Mag, 22-250, 6.5 Creed, and maybe a .243 and .270.

I’d say “I want the most accurate round I can send for all my rifles and I want to build a handload to exceed factory accuracy” best describes what I want to do. I’m not satisfied with most factory ammo. I don’t own any custom rifles but most of them hold in the 1 MOA range but I feel like I can do better. I hate not being able to find the ammo I want/need.

it sounds like Max accuracy is your game

a single stage press or a turret

I like my Lee classic cast turret it works a little faster for the round change out as I keep all my dies in their own turrets so it cuts setup time

it can be set to index on each pull of the handle so that speeds up pistol rounds

on several of the single stage presses you can also reduce setup and keep your dies setup in quick change sleeves

you are stating relatively low volume and multiple calibers that puts you in a progressive is not worth the cost or setup time.
generally I think progressive is when you load >1000 rounds of one load in one caliber

the Lee classic cast turret is a fairly budget way to get into loading a few to several rounds and you can still get some volume in 9mm I was loading about 2000-2500 rounds on my turret a year
and around 500 223
but I can easily switch and load 100 308win or 50 30-06

4 dies loaded at a time is the benefit to the turret with the ease of backing up to the last die any time you want.
progressive presses don't back up easily
and single stage you do just on process then change dies and do the next so it is slow and not good in my opinion if you get interrupted.


the best $$ your going to spend get yourself Lee Modern reloading 2nd edition read that if I recall the first 200 pages is the info you want after that is all recipes and charts.
https://www.amazon.com/2021-Modern-...+reloading&qid=1702655535&sr=8-2

you want the 2021 update for new powders
the 2003 edition was good but you want the newer data in the recipes section.

that will answer a TON of questions and like someone else said you want a couple of manuals this is a good one to have.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021429
12/15/23 12:30 PM
12/15/23 12:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
For benefit of OP and others like him wondering if reloading is for them, it may be helpful to walk them thru the process. Clear up some of the mystery.

But before we get into reloading, first thing to understand is what goes on in a rifle when a round is fired. The relationship of the gun to the ammo. Most never give it a second thought, but if you are going to be reloading that spent case, understanding what goes on is critical to success.

To start with, a round of bottleneck ammo and a rifle's chamber are an incredibly close fit. Lets assume you have a caliber in which the distance from the bolt face to mid point on the shoulder of the chamber is 2.000 inches. Exactly 2.000 inches. As long as the same point on the cartridge is that distance or less, the round should chamber and fire. Factory ammo built for that caliber will likely measure 1.998..........or maybe only 0.002 (two thousands) of an inch less than what the rifles chamber was setup to accept. The "normal" situation when a rifle chamber is created is to at least the minimum of 2.000 to as much as 6 to 8 thousands more. 2.006 to 2.008. Most are in range of 2.000 to 2.004. But again, some can be more.....some are less. Like buying a pair of size 10 boots. Some are bigger than others. Each rifle is going to be different, but most will at least be reamed out to the minimum of 2.000. Factory ammo will always chamber.

When that round is fired, as powder burns the pressure created from the expanding gas will first expand the brass........blow it out.....to fill all available space in the chamber. Sides, shoulder and neck are blown out to seal the brass against the chamber's walls. If the chamber was reamed out to 2.008, the brass will expand that far to fill it. When that spent brass is ejected, it retains the general shape of the chamber it was fired in. So that is our starting point. That is what we have to work with.

So first step in the reloading process is to remove the spent primer and resize the brass. The resizing die does both. The primer is simply a press fit. It gets punched out by the primer stem. So a lubricated (must lube the case or it will weld itself the the die and be difficult if not impossible to extract) spent case is placed in shell holder on the reloading press's ram and is run up into the die. The primer is punched out, the extrusion die forces sides, shoulder and neck back into place. Your run it up until it comes to a dead stop, then pull it back out. As case is removed from from the sizing die, an expander button on the primer stem is pulled back thru the neck, sizing neck back to the exact diameter needed to hold the bullet in place. Die has performed 2 functions. Primer removed, case resized to factory size. Case is now ready to prime, charge and seat a bullet. BTW, while all this may sound complicated, once the die is setup the way you want it, it takes all of about 3 seconds to size a case.

First and foremost, if you follow the instructions that came with the sizing die, the brass is going to be sized back to about the same size as factory ammo is. If your chamber is at minimum......say 2.000 or slightly more, the brass won't be sized much at all. If your rifle has a BIG chamber....and you followed the basic die instructions......you are going to be sizing it a lot. For basic reloading, you can largely ignore this and simply follow the instructions and you get what you get. Advanced reloading would have you fine tune that to only resize as little as needed to get the future round to chamber in that rifle. A rabbit hole and it's a deep one.

Regardless of how much the case was resized, one thing happens that is not obvious. To get the shoulder pressed back enough to chamber, the shoulder is not pressed down towards the base, it gets pressed in. In doing so, same thing happens as when you grab a handful of meat and squeeze it in your fingers....it gets squished out. In the situation of the brass, the metal has to go somewhere and it gets squished out the mouth end. The brass grows in length and has to be trimmed back. Many ways to do that, but again, has to be checked for length and trimmed if need be. The more you resize the brass, the more likely it will grown in length and have to be trimmed. Since trimming leaves a sharp edge, last step is to hit the mouth with a chamfer tool to remove any burrs and sharp edges. Inside and out. A simple 2 second job.

Case is now ready to insert a primer.......just a press fit. Easy to do.

Next comes the powder charge. This is where the reloading manuals become critical. Which powder and how much. Dozens to choose from. But end goal (for me anyway) is to find an amount of a specific powder that duplicates the same velocity as factory ammo for the bullet I"m using. So potentially dozens of bullets and dozens of powders to match. Not hard.....pick the bullet you want to use and get to it. Published load data is a recipe to follow to get you there. Critical tool here is an accurate scale. One of the most used pieces of equipment a reloader depends upon to stay out of trouble. Nothing happens without an accurate scale.

Lastly the bullet is seated. This can be as simple or hard as you want it to be. Simple is to just seat it to same depth as published load data tells you, which is likely going to be similar to factory ammo for the same bullet. Last choice is to decide if you want to crimp the bullet in place......or not. When it comes to seating bullets, hard is to go down the rabbit hole chasing a higher level of accuracy than the basic method got you to. Plan on at least 50 rounds or more to gain less than an inch of accuracy at 100 yards. From seating a bullet? Yes, from seating a bullet.

In all that, case prep is the single biggest factor......both in amount of work and success of the operation. Once you get it all figured out, reloading a box of ammo is about a 30 minute job, start to finish.


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021440
12/15/23 12:52 PM
12/15/23 12:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
trapper
Wright Brothers  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Pa
Enjoying this topic.
Ny next load venture is for a 30-30 handgun.
The thing is like a canon with factory loads.

I have three different color single stage presses.
They all do the same thing.
Friend of mine broke an RCBS press.
They replaced it no charge.

Mine are not reloads, they are handloads.





Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021530
12/15/23 04:18 PM
12/15/23 04:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
meadowview, Virginia
A bit of info on dies:

Straight wall cases are 3 die sets, one to size and decap, one to flare the mouth to accept the bullet, one to seat the bullet and crimp if needed. Bottleneck cases use mostly 2 die sets, one to resize and decap and one to seat the bullet. For rifles the standard full length sizing die set is what you need unless you are doing benchrest or other specialty reloading.

For best accuracy from your rifles you will at some point want to try seating bullets at different depths in the case. Bullet seating depth is determined via a threaded bullet seating adjuster and locking ring on the standard seating die. This is a coarse adjustment and is trial and error until you get it where you want it, which will be different for different bullets. Die manufacturers also make seating dies with a micrometer adjustment for seating depth which makes the whole process much easier. Micrometer seating dies alone tend to be more expensive than standard die sets and, from most die mfgs, are cartridge specific. Hornady makes a micrometer seating adjuster for under $40 that can be used in any of their seating dies. Hornady dies are high quality, and with the cost savings of buying one micrometer that works will all the die sets, is a good option. I think Redding is moving to do the same.

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8021750
12/15/23 09:02 PM
12/15/23 09:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Montana
USMC47 🦫 Offline OP
trapper
USMC47 🦫  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Feb 2009
Montana
What great advice here.


The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle.

www.derricks-nm.com
Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8022354
12/16/23 05:02 PM
12/16/23 05:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
Erik Cortina is a long range competition shooter. Wins a lot. Has a lot of loading for precision accuracy videos on youtube


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8233875
10/11/24 12:00 PM
10/11/24 12:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
West Tennessee
D
doublesettrigger Offline
trapper
doublesettrigger  Offline
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D

Joined: Jul 2007
West Tennessee
Well, did you get started?

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8233927
10/11/24 01:43 PM
10/11/24 01:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Lebanon, WI
Randy Wieland Offline
trapper
Randy Wieland  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Lebanon, WI
I started with RCBS and moved up in time. Great info above!!
I urge you to find someone reputable and methodical to help you get started and teach you consistent results. Repeatedly is the name of the game. Being rushed, short cuts, and “good enough “ creates headaches.

Very rewarding when you get system dialed in. One of my favorites is my custom 22-250. Tack driver with junk bullets . Here is a 5 shot group at a little over 400M.

[Linked Image]


The only thing worse than losing........Is QUITTING!
Lifetime Member WTA
Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8233965
10/11/24 03:35 PM
10/11/24 03:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Mo.
1
1cav Offline
trapper
1cav  Offline
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1

Joined: Oct 2007
Mo.
Some great comments above. Have reloaded for over 35 yrs. I use Dillon, for pistols, Forester Co Ax , for rifle. RCBS 9460 auto primer, & universal hand primer, for primers. RCBS Rock Chucker, is excellent press. Use RCBS, precision balance scales and a RCBS Chargemaster for dispensing powder with a RCBS powder trickler. Wilson case trimmer. RCBS, have complete starting packages. My powder thrower is Redding. Have used every maker of Dies, on the market. Redding RCBS, Forester, Dillon, are my choice. Best decapper barr none is a Lee. My reloading manuals, Hornady, Sierra . My best advice, buy the best you can afford, and build, as you go. There's tons, of equipment, and tons for resale. As for precision loads, load 10 rds, and test , keep records. Powder is key element, for accuracy, plus bullets, Bullets, in my arsenal, ( rifle) Hornady, Berger, Sierra, (pistol) Hornady, Berrys, my favorite Extreme. Ask questions, ther's some great reloaders, on this site. Start by making some dummy rds., NO primers, or powder just formed cases and bullet. then run them threw your weapon to see If they are Sammi specs, and will chamber up. Another, thing lube your case before sizing, very important. Take your time, and keep your mine on reloading, when reloading. Reloading manuals a must

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8234028
10/11/24 06:07 PM
10/11/24 06:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
eastern WV
R
Ridge Runner1960 Offline
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Ridge Runner1960  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
eastern WV
order an RCBS master reloading kit and your set. read the front of a reputable manual, then read it again. come back and ask questions.

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8234034
10/11/24 06:19 PM
10/11/24 06:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2023
WI
WI Outdoors Offline
trapper
WI Outdoors  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2023
WI
I was told to get a single stage to keep it simple. Anyone?

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8234036
10/11/24 06:26 PM
10/11/24 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
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charles  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Asheville, NC
RCBS Rock Chucker is a good press to start with.

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8234080
10/11/24 08:02 PM
10/11/24 08:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Hilton, NY
P
Paul D. Heppner Offline
trapper
Paul D. Heppner  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Hilton, NY
I started with an RCBS Jr back in 1980. I now have 2 of them, plus a Rock Chucker, and a Dillon 550. They all get used, some more than others. The Dillon only sees 380, 9mm, 38 spl, 357 mag, 44 spl, 44 mag, 45 acp, 45 auto rim, 45 Colt. The Rock Chucker takes care of 357 Max, 454 Cassull, and various bottle neck cartridges. One JR gets the 22 Hornet, the other gets the 30-30. My oldest daughter uses the 30-30, the youngest girl uses the Hornet. They want to shoot them, they had to learn to load them. I'm still paying for the components. Can't quite figure out how that happened, but oh well, it's all good. My son, the middle child, has his own Jr to load his 222 and 300 WM. Come to think about it I gave him the Jr, so I had 3 of them.

Re: Reloaders [Re: USMC47 🦫] #8234112
10/11/24 08:52 PM
10/11/24 08:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Mo.
1
1cav Offline
trapper
1cav  Offline
trapper
1

Joined: Oct 2007
Mo.
Your question on brass, I'm only talking rifle brass . Pistol brass, another animal, which I consider alot easier to load. I'd start with new brass, then your rifle chamber will start the process of fire forming your brass.Making it easier on your necks, and life of your brass. As you will learn some brass is thicker, and will be harder to form in the dies. I'm picky about brass, Use alot of Starline, which is thicker than Hornady, and Lapua. I also use Win, Rem, Peterson Norma ,Lake City . I keep count of how many times I have reload cases, and what rifle ,since I have several calibers, the same. I use the rock wash method for cleaning then I run it through walnut in a case tumbler, to shine it. There's several ways ,have ultra sonic cleaner, that I use for couple suppressed rounds. Some of that brass in gas guns, gets pretty nasty. I also aneal my brass. Another thing I do to every round I load ,I look in side each case after each powder load and see how much powder in it, before it goes into press to seat the bullet. Have loaded enough rounds, over the years, to know real quick If I have short charged or over charged. WHY I say that, not all powder throws the same especially course grain, to ball powder. As I said,earlier, prep some brass, throw several powder charges, dump the charge back into your thrower, weigh and inspect where the charge is in your brass After awhile you will develop and have a feel for any bad charges. I've got lazy over the years, and use a RCBS Charge master, But have the beam scales right there and meassure every 3rd, 4th charge, to check. Seldom have to dump charge or add powder unless I'm throwing course powder as Varget. You will enjoy loading and see the difference in loading and factory ammo. Good luck, keep those rounds headed down range

Re: Reloaders [Re: WI Outdoors] #8234121
10/11/24 09:03 PM
10/11/24 09:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2020
Missouri
O
Osagan Offline
trapper
Osagan  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2020
Missouri
Originally Posted by WI Outdoors
I was told to get a single stage to keep it simple. Anyone?


Yep. I agree.
I use a single stage press for everything.
Never considered buying a progressive loader.
Keep it simple.

And yes, Free Marty!
And Willie!

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