I had the pleasure of observing two 12 year old boys get into a heated debate on deer guns today. Both have killed three deer in their life, so they each figured that they had it all sorted and that the other was an idiot. Seems to be a substantial difference between the 308 Win and the 30-06. I thought they were about to throw punches.

Anyway, what do you all figure? I like the 30-30 in the brush, and the 270 Win if I figure I need some range. Feel free to argue a bit, I could use some good reading.

270 is a great cartridge. I have shot at least 3 deer . 30-30 for me too at times. I like the iron sights when I cant see more than 100 yards anyway.

Real hunters use a bow. Long bow, recurve are preferred. Training wheel bows (compound and crossbows) for kids and the elderly.

There, that should get them riled up for you Big Sam.

We use a bunch of different cartridges between my family. They all do their job with in the range they intend to be used.

Any rifle that you can shoot accurately is what you should use , I like my .284 Winchester with a .25-06 and a .270 close behind .

Your results may vary ha ha !

Even long bows are cheating. Real men use buzzards to locate wolf kills and run the wolves off just like Great great great great great great great great great Grandad did.

I own calibers from A to Z each and everyone will do the right job. If I had to pick one and only one it would be 308 that being said the win 30-30 has taken more North American game than any other cartridge. I believe calibers are like fishing lures designed to catch the anglers eye over the fish. And any caliber as stated above is only as good as the shooters ability.

You have a point sir. Maybe an atlatl for the kids?

lol

Might have use my throwing knife this year.... Been practicing..

I shoot my deer with a shotgun. So there!

I have shot and killed deer with everything from a 22, bow, black powder, 357 & 44mag, 40 s& w, 380, 350 legand 223, 243, 7mm-08, 270 300 black out 308, and 30/06 12 and 20g What's best none of them they all worked just fine. What's my favorite I really like 7mm-08 but its not the best or really anyway better I just like the way it performs on deer size game within the distances we hunt.Low recoil, suppresso well, great performance on deer size game without overkill.

Buckshot or slugs?

What do you figure your effective range is?

15 feet....lol

I killed my first with a 260. Then moved up to a 308. Then have bounced around to other calibers 30-30, 30-06, 6.5 creedmoor. If I’m in the woods my 308 was usually with me, but that was because I didn’t have a scope on my 30-06 and my 30-30 was messed up. I got both problems remedied so I’m pretty excited to be able to change which caliber I’m taking this year. Probably going to try to do some hunting with each this year. With that said, I don’t have a favorite, but my 308 is what I’ve carried most often over the years

And when the kids want a little more of a challenge....

here in IL grew up shooting shotguns
still mostly shoot my 11 87 mod chock ventrib bbsight
most shooting under 50 yards
its just about what you are used to and what you are confident with

I've killed two of them closer than that with the longbow. I think you should knife one and report back.

For the last 20 years I have deer hunted almost exclusively with a 50 cal smokeless muzzle loader with a sabotted .45 cal bullet. Its by far my favorite and anyone who says its not the best combo is completely wrong.

375H&H or 300 Win Mag. Deer hunts are in brown bear country, here. I like using a .25/06 when in the lesser 48.

I have shot far more deer with a Ruger 44 carbine than anything else. I usually hunt thick woods and most shots are 50 yards or less. As far as the most versatile cartridge for deer i would vote for the 7mm Rem Mag.

My first deer was killed with my pops 500A mossberg, shooting buckshot, rifle wise I've got 3, 30/30, 44 mag and 7.62x54r nagant.

In what state was the 22 legal for deer? Just curious.

Gosh. I enjoy so many different rifles and cartridges. I have a 3030 henry with irons for my brush hunting. I use a scoped savage 99 featherweight in 308 with see through ring mounts for if im going between fields and forests mix. If I'm hunting longer fields or just want the confidence I use my tikka in 243. I can stack dimes with that thing. Took a spike today with a 50. cal muzzleloader.

And for Rob I do plan on bowhunting early season at some point. I actually got into hand carving my own self bow (I think it's called a self bow?, there was a specific design it was made after, I can always find out) out of white ash. My draw weight was too low so just fun to shoot. Made entirely with hand tools no power tools. I enjoy hand tool woodworking. eventually i'll make and fletch my own arrows too. But for now I just thump game with a boomstick !

Do you happen to have a picture of the bow? Sounds cool. I was looking at potential staves in the woods today.

The best cartridge for deer is the one you shoot the most accurate !

.22 was not legal. When I was a kid and was told 22 would not kill a deer I called bs and backed it up.

I in No way try to claim I have never broken game laws in my life. Infact I have probably broken almost all of them i can think of . As a kid I saw them as challenges and it didn't help my hunting influences were some habitual game law breakers. Luckily I out grew them as I got older. Today i follow most laws but still have no problem ignoring some laws. Like leting the boys hunt youth deer on their own. Not all laws are good laws. I even exceed the speed limit very often by 5 tob10 mph on the interstate.

25-06……nice for this type of country here in Kansas…

Started out with a 20 gauge single shot shooting slugs, moved up to a Savage 30-30 pump, then a 270, and recently a 6.5 creedmoor. Have shot a couple with 243, and 308, all have done their part when I did mine. Eric

Of all the cartridges I own, my go to is the .308. Shot Whitetails with 204,223,243,270,6.5 PRC, 3006, 300 wsm 300 win mag , I’m probably missing a few. That 308 flat out shoots great and is a great fit for Whitetails.

The savage ml2 is also a deadly, smokeless ml. ( but not a cartridge)

I wish I could use my .22-250 here. I would without a doubt, if it were legal. We're limited to straight wall ammo .350 and larger. The only rifle we kill deer with these days is a Henry .44 mag lever action carbine. It does the job. The rest are shot with an 11-87 .20ga. and slugs. I have shot a lot of deer with shotgun slugs, 12, 16, and 20ga.

Nobody's mentioned the 22 Mag yet.

Me too! My first one was with a slug. I didn’t have a rifle but I wanted to try

If you run across a 350 legand you like i would recommend it for your situation. They boys have shot 11 of the deer they have shot in the last 2 years with theirs and I have been very pleased with it. Will give it as big improvement over 357 and 44mag and shotguns. More range with less drop hits hard and less recoil and cheaper to shoot than shotguns with sabot.

When though the boys can now use the real rifles like the 7mm-08 and others they still take their 350s happy with the performance and dont feel under guned.

Well those work guess I left. that out.

The 5mm was popular with poachers at one time too. lol

I've always wanted one to try out, but never found one I could afford. Figured would make a good general purpose pickup gun. I've got a little ammo laying around for it.

We use lighter calibers out West with the right bullet they do just fine.

Was legal here a long time ago. Id say up until end of 60s maybe early 70s.

But I recall it talked about in combo with the Qbeam as common for the night poachers

The 400 Whelen works well on big deer. Should work okay on whitetails.

I'm pretty sure it's legal here... Never gonna try it but I thought I read somewhere it's legal in WI

I guess that was probably for the centerfire versions though

270 if I have to pick a best. Flat shooting with enough power to take any shot (with the exception of straight away) as far out as I feel I can ethically shoot. Though I've killed more with a 243. Shot one with a 22-250 once. Not a fan of the 22 calibers as they limit my range and they limit the shots I can take. Also the one buck I shot with a 22-250 didn't lose a single drop of blood, which can be a problem if they run even 40 yds after the shot in some of the cover we have.

My ideal gun for any species shouldn't limit your range or shot placement on the given species.

blow their minds and tell them they are both right

308win is a shortened 30-06 to use more modern powders that didn't need as much space

it was the 1951 do what 30-06 had done with M2 ball but lighter because less brass in the case and a little less powder because the case is smaller. that way GIs could carry more rounds into combat

ballistically yes 308win is about 100fps slower than modern 30-06 , but in 1951 30-06 was doing nearly exactly what 308win was made to do

so the deer at the end of the shot won't have any clue which 0.308" projectile hit them going almost the same speed

another way to put it a 20 inch 30-06 would be sending the same projectile at the same speed as a 24 inch 308 barrel

the shot to shot difference between 2 guns of the same caliber with the same ammo might actually be greater than 308 and 30-06

everything is legal for deer in WI , they changed the rules to "reasonable equipment" IF you drop a deer on the spot with 17 hmr it is reasonable equipment our county warden wanted so bad to hit a guy with unreasonable equipment for shooting a buck with 17hmr

problem was that deer didn't take 2 steps

so he could only write the tickets for shooting the deer out of season, the guy shot it with a 17hmr in the ear , then ran a broadhead through it and claimed an archery kill.

I have shot a buck with a 223rem 55gr soft point it ran about 35 yards and piled up , works great , the blood trail is not existent but it was d e a d and just didn't know it on impact turned the chest cavity to organ jelly.

Allan,
My Dad shot a .284 in a model 88 Winchester. I'm giving it to my nephew. Hope for a few more deer to fall to it.

Excellent choices, Ive killed a pile with both.

Ive used the 7mm Rem mag on Antelope and deer more , Ever since finding the 139 grain bonded Ammo over 30 yrs ago

My first big Buck was a Running 5 X5 Muley with the Non scoped .44 Ruger carbine -And dozens more with it in Wisc.& Minn.

You can use and cartridge./calibre you want as long as it's a .30-06. Anything else is just plain stupid.

Bullet construction is far more important than caliber. With the right bullet, caliber options are many. Although deer can get to just over 400 lbs, most deer shot are probably less than 200. Most popular calibers are overkill if you ask me. I'd rather have an easy on the shoulder caliber for deer.

Killed a very large pile of deer with the 30-30, that's my go to... killed one with a 243 and a few with slugs and buckshot.....

Put a decent bullet in the right spot and you go pick up your deer.....it ain't brain surgery, lol

My uncle was a 30-06 man. Got seriously upset when grandad bought a 243 in the late 60's. I thought he was going to have a litter of kittens when my dad bought a 308. Wonder he didn't stroke out when I bought a 270. My cousin has his old o3 a3 he bought from the NRA. Old mil surp has put a ton of meat on the table.

Trigger time seems to be the prevailing thought on best choice. My dad didn't believe in that. Called it wasting ammo. If you were not getting groceries or protecting livestock, any shooting was wasting ammo. He got his share of game.

I think if your method is working, your not leaving wounded animals for animal scavengers, your on track.

I really like the 7mm guns I have the 7mm mauser 7mm rem mag 7mm stw 7mm short mag all have got the job done for me. This year I will try the 6.5 creedmoor and see what happens.

I personally love the .243 as I’ve killed a lot of deer with it and the lighter recoil helps on deer drives and shooting running deer as I can pickup the deer again quicker after shooting. One of the better hunters I know and kills just piles of deer started out with the 250-3000 savage and moved to a .22-250 30 years ago or so and keeps just killing them every year.

I have shot deer with many calibers. They all work. Plus you need to what works where you hunt. I shoot different calibers from hunting in the wide open to in the thick woods. I have shot deer with bow and muzzleloader. You need to pick what works. It turns into a big argument, why? If it works use it.

Slugs

Why do the modern day expert marksman prefer short action calibers?

When weight is a factor you can shave a few ounces off. Some disciplines are still dominated by long actions. Most hunters would benefit more by shaving some weight of themselves than a few ounces off their rifles.

I killed deer with a 22-250 when I lived in SD, kills them dead but you rarely get a blood trail, which isn’t a big deal if you can watch them go down. Killed several with my mini 14 too but same deal. But I like to double lung em and bleed them out.

With Ti, Al, and poly stocks.
The way they scrutinize power...
I'd never thought that.

Thanks.

Oh and I put my 270 up against
Lugs outtabe 6.

500 yrds
running
snow storm
through a freight train
during an eclipse
with a clean oiled bore
on the last day

That .500 Nitro Express double on the right will pretty much paralyze a whitetail. The right bullet for thin skinned game is not easy to find.

Piece of cake, even with iron sights!

The Jordan buck ,world record for many years was killed with a 25/20.

No one uses a Boomerang anymore ?

Atlatl here. Lol

I have killed deer with something like 30+ different chamberings. It matters more where you hit the deer. A poorly hit animal with a magnum or fancy new chambering can still end up unrecovered. Most folks don’t shoot enough to stay proficient with one rifle let alone two or more.

I read enough Elmer Keith growing up that I've always wanted to own one. I'm glad to see that someone is still shooting one.

I've killed two with the 25/20. Fun little gun to hunt with.

Thank you all for contributing. It's been a fun read and I hope this thread keeps going for a bit. I'd have to go back and count, but I think I've killed deer with 17 or 18 different chamberings over the years. Mostly old and obsolete cartridges that I enjoy loading for.

My go-to deer rifle is a Remington 600 6mm shooting factory Remington Cor-Lokt in 100 grains. Extremely confident with it and have killed many piles of deer with it. Have killed many deer with many other guns and calibers but confidence means a lot in firearm choice.

Moosetrot

I’ve taken deer with just about everything. If I was allowed to only have one rifle it would be a mod 70 pre 64 Winchester featherweight in 270 or 30-06. If elk might be a factor at times I’d go with the 30-06. With that being said my main gun is a CVA scout single shot youth in 308. Whole gun is shorter than my arm and it shoots sub 1” at 100yrds.

There’s a small but devoted group of us around the country shooting 400 Whelens. While I was in Alaska I got to be friends with Michael Petrov, the modern dean of the 400 Whelen. He passed several years ago. I treasure the time I spent with him discussing classic custom rifles and all things Whelen. Micheal wrote a couple articles debunking the headspace myth surrounding the 400. He did a lot of load development as have several of us who love the 400. I’ve killed two caribou and one moose with mine. I can tell you that 400 grain bullets at 2150 fps, rather effectively, makes caribou and moose stop what they’re doing and fall down.

I’ll carry it some when I start coyote trapping next week as deer season is open and it’s either sex in my area. I have some Hawk 350 grain bullets that need blooded.

I've read Mr Petrovs writing on the subject, it's neat that you knew him. The last rifle I put together was almost a 400, but for whatever reason I ended up building a 35 Newton instead. I've got dies and bullets for the 400, so I'll get one put together someday. Thank you much for posting.

I've shot deer like most Here with everything from a .22 to a 45-70, bow and muzzleloaders.

My favorite is a .264win mag, hands down.

Good stuff guys, 250-3000 anyone?

I have a 700 action that will fit Whelen.
As a kid I stared that one down in the load book.

I used my grandpa’s 250-3000 to take one last year

I just counted eleven rifle cartridges I have used on deer, not counting shotgun kills with buckshot in #1, 0, 00, and 000.

have used 40 different rifles and handguns, they will all work. I do not and have never owned a 30/06.

Splithand, fourth of July!

My favorite deer/elk rifle is a .308 I bought used when I was 14. ( now 75 ). Every bull elk ( 20 some ) and most all deer was taken with it. New powders and bullet designs can make cartridges perform better than ever before. Just choose for the job at hand. Short action, lower recoil, ammo and componates available.
My .308 load now: Varget powder, half grain under max, 150 gr. Barnes TSX bt., 3000 fps. Hits hard, penetrates deeper than needed, retains close to 100% weight if you find it. Often two holes. Shoots very well.
I have no need for anything bigger or faster unless griz gets closer.

If I go somewhere where I think I might need a long poke, I have a 240 Weatherby Mag. I dislike carrying it. Would rather walk closer with the .308 and take a safer shot or let them run off.

I shot my first deer in 1975 with a .30 carbine.I've used numerous calibers thru the years,they all work if you do your part.Personally I hate hunting fields or large clearings,I've always hunted the big woods,especially the cedar swamps that are common in the U.P. My choice of calibers now are the heavy slower moving rounds,like the 45/70,45/90,and the 38/55.One of the lighter bullets that I used years ago with great success was the .257 Roberts in a Ruger 77.That rifle was a tack driver.I've still got it,hasn't been used in about 15 years when my son got a nice buck with it.

It's still hanging up covered in dust in my barn somewhere. I'll take it down at some point Sam and see if I can figure out the inbox system and send you some pictures and info on it.

Sounds great Carpenter! Thank you!

killed deer with .222, 22-250, .220 swift, .243, ,270, 30-30, 7mm, 30-06, and a few with my truck and wife's car.

Very welcome!



It's tough to pick a caliber isn't it? Especially once you get into reloading it's like a whole 'nother rabbit hole.

I have not shot a deer with a rifle for years. I shot the first 10-15 with a Model 88 Winchester 308. Then I bought a Remington 700 22-250 for coyotes and prairie dogs. I got so confident with my abilities with that rifle I used it to cleanly kill a lot of deer with. And it killed them as fast as any big magnum would. Bullet placement is more important than caliber choice in my opinion. If I wanted to kill a deer with a rifle today I would probably reach past several rifles in the safe to grab that 22-250.

My favorite rifle for deer is my Ruger 44 Magnum Carbine. It looks and carries like a 10-22. I don't even need a sling. I am comfortable out to 125 yards.
It is very handy for running shots. Never had a deer run off, Had one crawl about 7 yards.
If I hunt where longer shots are likely, I take out my 270. Shots flat and thumps a deer nicely,

I'm sure he will enjoy it a great deal ! I've got the Model 100 and then a custom built on a old short Sako action what a tack driver !
The 139 gr Hornady BTSP is a favorite of mine to shoot !

When I was a teenager, my dad always said the 30-06 would kill anything in North America. So he gave me his 3006 to carry deer hunting and he used his Savage 30-30 bolt. As I now think about it, humm?? Anyway, so when I got my first rifle it was a 30-06. Over the years I've used any number of calibers in different types of actions from 17 rem to 458 Lott.

Today at the ripe age of almost 70, I carry a 308, titanium action in synthetic dress deer hunting. With age and bad shoulders, weight and recoil become issues; I'm thinking about an upgrade to 30-30 or small 6.5mm.

Another thought in the back of my mind is, what is the available of commercial ammo, especially with the ammo issues of the past years.

Ammo availability is a real issue but easily dealt with. Find your load you like and buy 2x more than you will shoot in your suspected time frame.

Few people shoot 10 rounds out of their deer guns a year after the I got a new
rifle wears off. So figure X $ worth of ammo figured into the price of the new gun along with optics and rings solves that problem.

Don't tell anyone you have a stock of ammo you will be blamed for the next shortage by those that dont prepare and only buy a box or two when they run out.

I have enough in several cal to last me the rest of my life and well I to the kids for deer hunting. That's not including all the components for loading more. But im like a squirrel with ammo. I see a good price and buy it. Sometimes I dont even have anything to shoot that caliber in.

Killed deer with 12 gauge slugs, 223, 22-250, 243, 7mm mag, 30-06, 351 WSL, and 308. I want to add 30-30 (my dads), and 30-40 Kraig (my Grampas) to the list

at my house there is no differnce between 308 and 30-06 there is typically a 50-200fps difference between the same projectile in 308 vs 30-06

308 worked so well I figured why beat myself and the semi auto 30-06 rifles I had up

most of the 308s are bolts , all my 30-06 are semi auto it just happened that way. I had a bolt 30-06 but I sold it.

it takes a couple grains more powder to compensate for the case being bigger but they are nearly the same

Here's A debate..........

I don't believe in the slow calibers like a 30-30 being superior at being a brush gun.

Slow moving objects are way more easily deflected from their path than a fast moving one.

I tend to agree with you hippie. I don't shoot the 30-30 because I think it'll bust the brush better, I shoot it because it handles so quick on the close and fast shots. I have always been tempted to set up some targets in thick brush and see if there is any difference in deflection between say a 270 or 06 vs something big and slow like the 45-70 or the 416. I don't shoot through brush unless a critter is already wounded and I figure he needs another round, and that rarely happens.

have took 1 , an 8 pt. buck with a 250, 100 gr nosler ballistic tip at 2850 fps. killed him graveyard dead, he never kicked.

I have to use a shotgun in illinois. I have 2 I shot with a regular 20 gauge over the years where it didn't do a good job.12 ga never fails.

I did a little testing heavier as in more mass moving tends to stay straighter than less mass moving

when your putting 95gr out of a 243 and 170s out of a 30-30 though a stick the 243 does deviate more quite possibly from deformation.

if you were running a 58gr vmax and shot through a 1/2 inch branch the bullet would probably be a bunch of pieces of flack hitting the target. so bullet composition has something to do with it and bullets tend to deform more at higher velocity.

I did the testing with 308 using 150s and 180s
shooting through 1/2 inch plywood with a big sheet of cardboard behind it to catch the bullet pattern
shot at 25 yards
we started with the cardboard about 10 feet behind and found it was hard to call
we moved the carboard back to about 30 feet and we could see a definite pattern the 150 were more spread out in the cardboard compared to the 180s

if the deer is 5 feet behind the bush with a 308 in 150 or 180 it won't change that much
if it is 25 feet behind it starts to change enough to matter

no gun is really the brush buster people want , bullets are effected by hitting stuff.
it dose take distance for it to change direction

heaver seems to be better at changing less after impact, enroute to the target.

Pete, you are a wealth of information. Thank you for your contributions to all of the gun threads.

From the .22 to the 460+ they all kill deer within their limits.It is more the guy behind the stock.
NOTHING lives with a hole in the heart or lungs regardless of caliber.
A guy in forensic science told me many years ago that a deer shot in the heart or lungs will not live longer than 7 seconds.What they do in those seconds vary from drop to take off.
Some say the ones that drop have just exhaled and lack oxygen. The ones that run just inhaled. I don't really know.

I recently joined a hunting site and when the mod saw my post on this subject ,slammed me with profanity,called me a crack head,etc.I terminated that site.
Hope that doesn't happen here !

Brush busters are kid of a misnomer, all bullets deflect, just depends on bullet type, weight, etc...30-30's aren't really brush busters, but are light, handy and easy to carry, especially without a scope, actually a scoped anything is a better brush buster cause you can pick out small openings to shoot through....

Anything that DOES NOT have Credmore on it.

Six MM Remington is the prefered round for Nebraska deer and antelope.


Cnarlie

This

threading the needle shots

short and fast handling is handy for carry in thick stuff and because your ranges are not long

low magnification scopes or dots are also handy

even 4 power is really too much , I had a 6 on a rifle and it was just too much magnification I would pull up on a deer and have difficulty getting it in the scope some times took longer to line up a shot than a 1.5 or 2x

2x seems to be a sweet spot for anything 10 to 100 yards and it lets a lot of light in

My absolute favorite optic i have is a 2x7x32 vx2 Leopold shotgun scope. Its short light compact. Good enough glass. You can say I agreed about lower power optics for the typical hunting conditions in my area.

I have been wanting to try the vx3I 2.5x8 but not willing to pay the price they are asking for it.

I think the 6.5 creedmoor might be the best round out there. If I was into cheating and wanted to give up the bow and arrow.

Best deer cartridge is one big enough to get the job done and the one you shoot the best. For me it’s .308’s because that’s what I mostly own and shoot. I do have a dedicated coyote rifle that doubles on single pigs in .243 and it performs great. May take it and record the thermal shot on deer with it. No doubt it will perform just as well as my .308’s. But again, I shoot it a lot and I’m very comfortable with it.

I have killed deer with a .223, 25-35, 32 special, 270, 25-06,7mm-08, 30-06, 45-70 and 50 cal black powder.
They all worked pretty good. If I only had one for white tail deer it would be the 25-06.

Zim